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How do you set exposure for video?


Vesku
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Thanks for explaining it for me Vesku, but it sounds way too complicated and distracting for me to think about whilst I'm framed up and say panning with a shot. If it were to become a feature with the GH5 I'd certainly be turning it off in auto mode if I used it. But thanks for explaining it.

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9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

 it sounds way too complicated and distracting for me to think about whilst I'm framed up and say panning with a shot. 

That is the idea of auto exposure or setting the exposure for video start using auto. There are so many other things to concern and think. Compositing, framing, focusing, camera movement, subject movement, re-focusing, interviewing, walking, holding camera steady enough, planning next clip, enjoying the situation or music... the list is endless

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Always manual including white balance. I don't really follow the 180 degree rule, though. Used to do that, but I hated the loss of sharpness due to my crappy variable ND, so I just started not using it. After a while of shooting like that, you can tell, where you're going to get problems because of high shutter speed and learn to avoid that. Or dial the aperture down. Or use motion blur in post, which works fine 90% of the time.

With that said though, I am still wishing I had a good variable ND, but I have kind of lost hope in them. The best would be to get some regular good quality NDs with a fast swapping system (for example, magnetic, like I remember seeing somewhere), but it still would be quite slower than just adjusting the shutter. Usually for the work I do, speed is the main priority.

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I'm seriously going to look into the SLR magic vari ND to find out if its clickless or can be made to be clickless, and what its like on a long lens (about 300mm @ MFT) 99% of my stuff is shot over the ocean looking south most of the time and quite often panning left to the east and the rising sun. I need to control aperture to get a long depth of focus, and shutter speed to control motion cadence. I work with a couple of DOPs and they reckon the SLR magic vari nd is hard to beat for its price. I reckon riding a descent vari ND might keep me in the sweet spot when I need it. I know fron experience some cheap vari nd's aren't nice on long lenses.

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5 hours ago, Vesku said:
10 hours ago, Damphousse said:

D: Another major offense I see a lot in stills photography and video is blown highlights.  With raw I expose to the right till highlights are almost clipping.  I then recover the highlights in photoshop.  I don't know how you do that in full auto.

V: Auto exposure prevents highlight clipping. That is the idea of auto exposure. It is not wise always expose ETTR. How do you expose if the scene has no highlights or no faces? Auto exposure usually knows very well.

If I go out and shoot on a high contrast sunny day clipped highlights are guaranteed with full auto.  To be honest with you if I am shooting something like the beach where it is wide open and everyone and everything is illuminated by the same intensity of sun I meter once and set my camera up for expose to the right and then lock everything off for an hour.  Meter again and adjust as the sun gets brighter or darker.  I don't meter and adjust every shot.  That's unnecessary.  I meter and get an exposure that keeps the white clouds from blowing out.  Then I lock the exposure.  Not hard. 

V: What if the light changes very much because of clouds?

D: Bottom line, practice, practice, practice.  Also sometimes full manual is the only way to go and sometimes some kind of auto mode is the only way to go.  In the end they are all just tools.  YOU have to make the decision what is appropriate to use when, depending on your skill level. 

V: They are just tools. What if a user gets the same exposure using auto / EV comp / AE-lock than using full manual but easier and more accurate. Is that a bad thing?

How can I reply for many parts of someones story?

 

I think you understood my points.  My post was pretty long, detailed, and specific.  You don't gain anything by asking me what I do with exposure when lighting changes dramatically or whether I use ETTR ALL the time.  You already know the answers to those questions.  I think you have inadvertently proved my point.  There are so many scenarios in photography that no one can say EVERYONE should use complete manual exposure ALL the time and no one can say NO ONE should EVER use full auto.

Honestly you are trying to have an argument with me that I'm just not willing to have.  I've already stated multiple times I see a use case for all this stuff.  I don't tolerate people beating novices up for using full auto.  If that is the only way someone can get a critical shot so be it.  But at the same time I'm not going to just let someone say something ludicrous like "auto exposure prevents highlight clipping".  Even with full manual there are times you have to clip highlights.  You are posting misinformation.  All companies have their own proprietary auto exposure systems and they all work differently otherwise if you pointed all the cameras at the same scene you would end up with the exact same exposure.  You don't even get that within the same manufacturer's line.  So to say they all "prevent highlight clipping" is just bizarre.  They are black boxes and all different.  And even on a camera in "full auto" the metering is different.  I mean are you referring to spot metering, average metering, matrix metering, etc?

Modern camera equipment is so good as far as stills you can put a camera on full auto and just spray and pray and you will come back with some nice shots.  I think what people are trying to help you understand is if that is where you stop your development you will be leaving a lot of nice shots on the table.  Learn your equipment and how to use it and you will increase your keeper rate.  It's a free country.  You can use your camera in full auto and it isn't a crime, but please don't discourage people from trying to learn full manual.  There isn't a person that I've taught full manual to that regrets it or has regressed back to full auto.  Once they discover how they can control depth of field, bokeh, freeze or add motion, adjust white balance, etc they are very excited.  They are so happy to finally understand how to get pictures like the ones in the magazines instead of boring family snapshots.  These are people who got wonderful pictures using the full auto spray and pray method and were frustrated because they couldn't replicate a serendipitous shot.  They got a nice photograph but didn't know how they did it.

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4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

You can use your camera in full auto and it isn't a crime, but please don't discourage people from trying to learn full manual.  There isn't a person that I've taught full manual to that regrets it or has regressed back to full auto.  Once they discover how they can control depth of field, bokeh, freeze or add motion, adjust white balance, etc they are very excited.  They are so happy to finally understand how to get pictures like the ones in the magazines instead of boring family snapshots.  These are people who got wonderful pictures using the full auto spray and pray method and were frustrated because they couldn't replicate a serendipitous shot.  They got a nice photograph but didn't know how they did it.

Sorry for too aggressive opinions. It is very important to learn how the exposure works and how it makes different styles of images. I am trying to say that when knowing all the theory I can get the same result with automatic exposure aids than using full manual. It is just more easy to roll one dial than two and getting the right starting point for brightness or exposure combinations. I am not using a ND filter so I am more free to use different combinations. When using AE-lock the auto exposure stays the same after a clip has started.

One need for auto exposure is my zoom lenses which dims when zooming in. The auto exp keeps brightness constant when zooming.

I am using manual exposure too in some cases when I feel I have time and the light is difficult.

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New exiting exposure features for Panasonic 4k video:

-Auto iso in M

-Auto iso upper limit

-Shows all exposure values in all modes

-Changing PASM dialing just mode dial

-Showing frame exif when extracted image from video

-Different aspect ratios 1:1  4:3   3:2

I figured that using 4k photo feature I can shoot normal 4k video with all those useful features which are lacking in normal video mode.

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On 12/7/2016 at 10:45 AM, Damphousse said:

It also depends on the project.  If you are shooting a documentary run and gun style as a one man band then you need all the help you can get.  But if you are doing an interview on a closed set it makes no sense to go full auto

Of course, I agree. I was speaking about travel run and gun with dynamic shots handheld :)

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I normally use manual exposure and try to stay true to 180° with ND filter etc., but sometimes, especially in music videos I just use an insane shutter speed in order to achieve a shallow depth of field if I have to. If I shoot in slow motion I can go up to 1/8000.
For normal narrative things it is better to stay as close as possible to 1/50 in order to have a classic motion blur look.
Normally I try to not underexpose more then 2 stops and to not overexpose, but sometimes (today for example) I have to clip a sky in order to shoot a nice backlight scene with flares etc and to see something of the talent's without a reflector panel. It's not the best thing to do but it could work.

 

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Vesku,

I have to ask you: are you a minor and/or someone to whom English is a 2nd language? I ask this not to antagonize, but to better understand what's going on with your posts both here and on Personal View. I am trying to figure out whether you are simply a very young person with extremely limited photo/video experience, or an adult whose inane comments and complaints regarding Panasonic cameras need to be seriously considered as disruptive spam by the moderators of both forums. 

I've been a longtime lurker here but I have just registered solely to post this message. Because I've finally had enough. I honestly don't know whether you're for real or if you're simply trolling both of these video-oriented camera forums. Auto-ISO in Manual mode? Are you serious? Do you understand how foolish that makes you sound? Manual means manual - no automatic anything. That's the entire point of Manual. 

I am all for democracy and universal access to information and patience with one's fellow travelers etc etc but your posts are almost in a class of their own. I cannot fathom why Andrew here and Vitaliy at PV allow such uninformed inanity to poison their sites.

If you are a minor and/or ESL, I will try to simply take that into account when I see your posts. But if you are a grownup and you're genuinely saying these things, just please stop. You come off as a complete know-nothing, and you seem to know less the more people here try to educate you. Exposing a digital camera properly for video or still photography is just not that difficult, but you treat it like it's the mystery of the pharaohs. You're not new to these forums, you've been posting here and at PV and god knows what other DV forums for quite some time, how can you possibly still be banging on about Auto-ISO video? If that's really what you want then you don't want the cameras under discussion here. The GH/GX/5D et al are not for you.

What you want is an auto-everything cameraphone, or a point and shoot. I'm being serious - you will get exactly what you want from these cameras, because you're exactly the kind of user cameraphones and point and shoots are designed for. They're auto-everything so you don't have to understand exposure or ISO or anything else, just press the button and your video will look OK. It won't look like film or even professional video but to get that kind of result you have to be prepared to learn about your camera and how it works, which you clearly are not willing to do.  

Cameras like the GH4, GH5, GX85, 5D et all are designed to be shot fully manual for the best results. That's why there are forums like EOSHD and PV, for people who use these cameras. You are clearly not the kind of user who should be here if you're still asking questions like "Why won't Panasonic put Auto-ISO in their Manual shooting mode?".

Vesku, maybe you are a kid, or English isn't your native language and something's getting lost in translation. If so, I apologize. But please, enough with the ignorant nonsense. It is such a drag coming to these sites and seeing your broken record complaints in so many threads where serious people are tying to have serious discussions. 

 

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@Jon Jacobs Auto-ISO in M mode is a frequently requested feature among still photographers, and many other camera manufacturers have had it for a long time. It has a number of useful applications. For example, when shooting sports on a field with some variation in light (shadows in an area of the field), you could set your shutter speed to capture the action without motion blur, aperture to ensure enough DOF, and allow the camera to adjust ISO for a proper exposure.

And if you can accept that auto exposure (P, S, or A mode) is ever acceptable for videography, then surely you could think of a use for it in video. Set shutter speed at 1/50, aperture for whatever DOF you're looking for, and then allow the camera to moderate ISO to keep a proper exposure. But it seems like you're of the mind that any time someone is shooting video with a DSLR they can NEVER use any form of auto exposure in any circumstance. I think that's a bit short sighted, but I guess you feel pretty strongly about it.

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2 hours ago, Vesku said:

I see serious old people talking

I'm old, but I'm not serious.

1 hour ago, Nathanael McKinley Myton said:

@Jon Jacobs Auto-ISO in M mode is a frequently requested feature

I won't lie.  That feature is useful for motion picture shooting as well.  Depends on what you're doing, but I've yearned for it time to time.

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Whether Auto-ISO is a frequently requested feature among still photographers or not is immaterial to this discussion and frankly this forum as a whole. This is or at one time was a forum dedicated to shooting film-like footage with DLSRs. There are plenty of still photography forums. This isn't one of them. It's for video shooters, and specifically, video shooters trying to mimic the look of film. Which means following a few basics like 180-degree shutter, getting exposure right by knowing how ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and available light all work together. You do it long enough and it becomes 2nd nature. But if you're 20 with your first beard and you think all this old-school crap is "played out" and you just want to go to a music festival and shoot wide open in bright sun with a 1/1500 shutter because screw NDs that's for old men with ear horns, you'll just live with choppy motion that screams amateur video because hell why not all the best Red Bull extreme idiot videos have that same look so it must be woke, right bra?

Just how lazy are some of you guys? Shooting Manual for video is how pros do it. It's how film shooters did and do it. It's how you get the best looking motion footage from a digital camera, so the brightness isn't ramping up and down as the camera senses and then tries compensating on the fly with the inevitable and unescapable delay that screams camcorder instead of Super 35. Like I told Vesku, if auto-ISO is what you want, you're in the wrong forum. Shoot auto-everything with your iPhone and be done with it. You'll be much happier with your video, and you won't have to worry about cameras with pesky manual controls you need to spend a whole day or two to grok. 

I get that some of you younger guys are inexperienced, impatient, and have zero sense of history or tradition. I get that these things are "played out" to you, that you know better because you live now while the great filmmakers lived in the past, forced to use all that un-woke (sleeping?) manual gear. This is the age of Trump after all - the Post-Fact era, where actually knowing things is a liability. Better to just grab it and Make Art like this genius.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I still think these forums are for guys trying to get a film look from a digital camera, instead of what they seem to have become which is that perforated drain catcher in the shower that collects all the hairballs and effluvia. 

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2 hours ago, Jon Jacobs said:

Whether Auto-ISO is a frequently requested feature among still photographers or not is immaterial to this discussion and frankly this forum as a whole. This is or at one time was a forum dedicated to shooting film-like footage with DLSRs. There are plenty of still photography forums. This isn't one of them. It's for video shooters, and specifically, video shooters trying to mimic the look of film. Which means following a few basics like 180-degree shutter, getting exposure right by knowing how ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and available light all work together. You do it long enough and it becomes 2nd nature. But if you're 20 with your first beard and you think all this old-school crap is "played out" and you just want to go to a music festival and shoot wide open in bright sun with a 1/1500 shutter because screw NDs that's for old men with ear horns, you'll just live with choppy motion that screams amateur video because hell why not all the best Red Bull extreme idiot videos have that same look so it must be woke, right bra?

Just how lazy are some of you guys? Shooting Manual for video is how pros do it. It's how film shooters did and do it. It's how you get the best looking motion footage from a digital camera, so the brightness isn't ramping up and down as the camera senses and then tries compensating on the fly with the inevitable and unescapable delay that screams camcorder instead of Super 35. Like I told Vesku, if auto-ISO is what you want, you're in the wrong forum. Shoot auto-everything with your iPhone and be done with it. You'll be much happier with your video, and you won't have to worry about cameras with pesky manual controls you need to spend a whole day or two to grok. 

I get that some of you younger guys are inexperienced, impatient, and have zero sense of history or tradition. I get that these things are "played out" to you, that you know better because you live now while the great filmmakers lived in the past, forced to use all that un-woke (sleeping?) manual gear. This is the age of Trump after all - the Post-Fact era, where actually knowing things is a liability. Better to just grab it and Make Art like this genius.

Maybe it's me. Maybe I still think these forums are for guys trying to get a film look from a digital camera, instead of what they seem to have become which is that perforated drain catcher in the shower that collects all the hairballs and effluvia. 

I'm definitely new here, but I've been reading this forum for a bit and learning a lot from some pretty welcoming people, which I've appreciated. I don't know why you need to insult me based on my age, appearance, interests, and skill level and then tell me I'm not welcome in a forum that you made your account on just 5 hours ago.

 

Edit: anyways, I'll refrain from mentioning my auto-exposure addiction or the words "still photography" around here again

Though I get the impression the majority of people here actually do partake in a bit of the forbidden "still photography" from time to time

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Someone with your limited experience/skill level should hang back and learn for awhile, instead of jumping in and opining in a thread to which you've got nothing helpful to add.

Obviously there's nothing wrong with still photography, something everyone "partakes in". Except this isn't a still photography forum. The focus here is shooting DSLR video and trying to make it look like film. Sorry to trigger you but this isn't a millennial safe space to dialog photography - if that's what you want, go to dpreview or any of the trillion photography forums. This is a forum about video. Look at the title, look at all the threads. Beginner photographers clogging a thread about video exposure with unhelpful comments about Auto-ISO being a kewl thing for stills photography just annoy and frustrate those of us who come here to actually find solutions. Which, if I'm being honest, are few and far between these days, because of nonsense like this.

A few years ago Andrew posted here about an old Canon FD lens, the radioactive 35mm F2. He included great photo examples, and some highly informative commentary. I was intrigued enough to hunt down this lens for myself and it's one of the best investments I've made - it may be my overall favorite lens for both video and photography. Everything looks better when shot with this lens. That's the way forums like this are supposed to work. Guys who actually know what they're talking about, sharing knowledge with others.

I recently bought some Raspberry Pi 3s to turn into AirPlay audio adapters and wireless print servers. I know dick-all about coding so what I did not do was join a bunch of Linux forums and complain about how things are soooo much easier on my iPhone so why can't Linux be more like that? Instead, I STFU, read a ton, learned what I needed, and expressly avoided wasting anyone's time with questions I could answer myself with just a few mins Googling. Success came quickly, and I happily went on my way. Mission accomplished. 

Why can't it be like that here? Is it asking too much?

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26 minutes ago, Jon Jacobs said:

A few years ago Andrew posted here about an old Canon FD lens.....

I recently bought some Raspberry Pi 3s to turn into AirPlay audio adapters......

This topic is about video exposure. Auto exposure, manual exposure, ND-filters, exposure tips, exposure tools, different exposing styles and looks, old rules and new ways, etc.

Not about favorite lenses or audio or only for very talented film makers. 

EOSHD front page:

"Welcome to the EOSHD forum. The knowledge-base for all mirrorless, DSLR and pro video cameras."   I think amateurs are welcome too.

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Personally I like to set ISO/SA(180)/f5.6/8 and ride the ND using a combination of zebras and waveform (@Stanley - the SLR Magic one is ace!). When I'm using my Shogun Flame I'm almost confident enough to do it by eyeball - I said almost.

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Someone with your limited experience/skill level should hang back and learn for awhile, instead of jumping in and opining in a thread to which you've got nothing helpful to add.

Dunno who made you thread boss, Jon, but you seem to have issues that might be better off kept private.

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