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Sony A7SII colors suck!!!


Grégory LEROY
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20 hours ago, mojo43 said:

I believe that it would be your grading skills that suck rather than the cameras colours?

Now, now.  No need to be mean.  I'm sure camera manufactures dragged their heels on log because explaining the concept to the general public was going to be a low yield painful experience.

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Sorry wasn't trying to be mean, but when someone is blaming a product for not being good and it's really due to their lack of knowledge well then let's call a spade a spade. A forum full of knowledgeable people are trying to help and the op is being stubborn in my opinion. This post is almost troll like. Maybe that is why I am caught up wasting time typing this out? Dunno...

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I think the problem is in LOG mode the Sony cameras apply a wide gamut to colour which leaves it at the mercy of compression and bad colour paths in post. The white balance...something is going on there too...

If they had just adjusted the gamma curve like Canon LOG and left colour alone we wouldn't have all these threads and messed up grades in the first place so the blame has to lie at Sony's door really

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Sony really should make it easier to find information and LUTs for grading log material from their cameras. When I first started using the A7s I couldn't find a proper slog2 to Rec709 LUT anywhere that worked correctly. I spent countless hours looking for a neutral converstion LUT and I knew exactly what I was looking for. The slog curve is not the problem the problem is the sgamut color space that is the default on the camera when shooting in log. That colorspace must be converted to Rec709 via a LUT or color transformation matrix otherwise you can get funky colors. 

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26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If they had just adjusted the gamma curve like Canon LOG and left colour alone we wouldn't have all these threads and messed up grades in the first place so the blame has to lie at Sony's door really

But then it wouldn't be SLog. CLog was designed for the C300 - a camera that recorded compressed footage at 8-bit.

Slog wasn't. The implementation of Slog seems to have been to bring their product line-up into, well, line, with each other, so that whatever combo of cameras you shoot on, you should be able to pull something together that will cut and grade quite similarly.

If anything, Sony should have included other PPs that were a bit more user-friendly, a bit more C-logish. Less drastic a curve than Slog... Oh wait, they did include that, as well as the ability to custom dial in whatever combination of settings you want.

The problem isn't Sony, the problem is misinformation and lack of education. People tended to equate 5D's Cinestyle with log (which it wasn't) and I guess assumed that Sony's log would be similar (which it isn't).

I think the biggest problem is people not really understanding what log is, and not really knowing why you should/shouldn't use it. The A7s(II) isn't an Alexa, RED, F55, or even a C300. It's recording in 8-bit. Does that mean you can't use log? Of course not. If you need to/want to, and know how to, you can. But so many people seem to be using it 100% of the time with no thought as to how they're exposing, or to why they're using it other than 'well, because log gives you better dynamic range' and then being overall disappointed with the results.

And then they blame the camera for being 'terrible'. By all means, don't use the 8 other Picture Profiles, or dial in your own settings to get it looking how you like, just blame the camera for being wrong.

Some of my favourite A7s footage I've shot has been using PP OFF - i.e. no Cine gamma, no SLog, no S.gamut...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/08/2016 at 4:34 AM, IronFilm said:

What was it for?

C300 mk1 vs a7S mk2 fit very different niches. 

LOL! Bet that was hard and took you ages on a long travel all over the internet before you found that ;-) 

It was the C300 mkI. in the end, I'm really happy of the color look of my little Nikon, I will keep shooting on it.

I'm a beginner in video but my eye is quite sensitive to color. Sony Slog has weird green magenta reflexion on the skin, it take to much times to color correct.

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On 8/26/2016 at 2:14 AM, crevice said:

It's funny you say that, because I was just watching a video on vimeo and I was like damn this looks good. Went into the comment section and to my amazement the guy who made the movie mentions that turns PP off and leaves everything at stock settings. Here is the video:

 

As yet to see anything that good from anybody using any camera. This is a guy who cares not for anything but art - and the a7s2 delivers. 

 

Though I suspect that if you gave him a pineapple with a hole in the end he would come up with something better than most. Absolutely brilliant.

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"Sony really should make it easier to find information and LUTs for grading log material from their cameras. When I first started using the A7s I couldn't find a proper slog2 to Rec709 LUT anywhere that worked correctly. I spent countless hours looking for a neutral converstion LUT and I knew exactly what I was looking for. The slog curve is not the problem the problem is the sgamut color space that is the default on the camera when shooting in log. That colorspace must be converted to Rec709 via a LUT or color transformation matrix otherwise you can get funky colors."

This is bizarre. There is no default gamut. Sony supplies some example "Picture Profiles." One of them happens to use the Slog gamma curve and SGamut. Those "profiles" are just examples, for beginners to try out. You are free to combine the log gamma and the REC709 color space or any of many combinations of curves and color settings. And within any of those there are multitudes of tweaks - knee setting, sharpening, etc. It is ok to say one has a hard time getting the color one wants from a Sony camera. It is another to blame it on Sony, given the number of options it provides.

On a more positive note: Sony Catalyst Browse will create a LUT that converts the combination of the log gamma curve and SGamut (or any of its combos) to full REC709 automatically, which you can use in your favorite editing software. It is free.  

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  • 8 months later...
  • 4 months later...

I haven't used the A7SII but if it's anything like the original A7S (and the F5/F55) it's not for me.

The F35 and F3 I liked quite a bit. The F65, too. But something went wrong with SLOG2.

If it isn't working for you rent something else next time. There are tricks to improve A7S footage in post (gradually dialing back the saturation past 35 IRE in the lum v sat curve, for instance, to get rid of those nuclear greens) but if it's not working for you just don't rent it next time. I can't shoot decent footage with it, either.

We might be idiots who don't know how to get the best out of our tools, but that camera is too hard to get the best out of for me to want to use it. So I'd be doubly an idiot for wanting to use it, knowing I'm an idiot who can't get a decent image from it and that I hate the ergonomics and then being extra dumb and trying to make it work when I can't ever seem to.

That said, it's a miracle for low light and has great DR. For an experimental low light project I would rent one before anything else. But yeah it's not for me either!

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6 hours ago, Ben's EOSHD said:

Just in case people come to check out this thread. I think you should check out these videos where there was little to no correction done at all to the video. This is all pretty much sony a7sii in camera with no adjustments in post.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCOmyKDVzdg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfinNpywLzg&t

 

The color in your wedding and concert films is still on the video side of tones. I think EOSHD color would improve the color in your videos.

People are getting great results with it.

https://www.eoshd.com/pro-log

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