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1DX II, A7S II, C300 II - Compared Side-by-Side

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I would love to see more tests in outdoor settings with lots of green/blue sky/skin tone. I want to like the Sony cameras, I really do. I can't believe I am deciding to purchase a c100ii or a fs700/7Q. I can't believe the FS700 is such a steal right now, and I love the crispy images, just isn't great for a lot of paid work where that Canon look is really preferred...

Would also like to add that is easier to tell which is which when there isn't 3 up in a row like that.

 

Sony.png

Canon.png

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22 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Its just funny that you failed at it after the countless posts about how superior 4K is on any screen, how you always can tell, etc. That's all, no problem, just a good laugh.

I "failed" to see the difference in resolution on a 720p screen??? And you don't understand why??? And you apparently don't understand why resolution is important for some scenes, and less important for others???

OMG!

And for the record the "how superior 4K is on any screen" is purely your creation. So don't attribute that to me.

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On 5/10/2016 at 1:56 AM, DBounce said:

Well in that case you may have come about as close as possible. But why the different resolutions?

Right on, thx. The goal was using the best balance of quality and filesize/bitrate for each camera. For the A7S II: 100Mbps 420 8-bit 4K, C300 II 50Mbps 422 10-bit 1080p, and 1DX II 30Mbps 8-bit 422 1080p. When we scale 8-bit 4K 420 down to 1080p we get a low-pass-filtered (noise reduced) Y/Luma at pseudo 10-bit (adding four 8-bit values yields a 10-bit number) with UV/Chroma being full resolution (up from half) yielding a ~9-bit 444 1080p image for the A7S II.

The 1DX II has the least high-frequency information (at 1080p and 4K) vs. the other cameras. However,  Canon is doing really good NR, after which they do an unsharp-mask type of sharpening which effectively sharpens mid-high frequencies vs. the highest frequencies. This helps to make the image more organic and less digital, while still appearing reasonably sharp.

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11 hours ago, tugela said:

I "failed" to see the difference in resolution on a 720p screen??? 

You act like this isn't a topic you have debated on various forums before this thread.

You have failed blind tests in the past, obviously the present and will again in the future. 

There is nothing wrong or funny about that. What's funny is that you never seem yo accept that peoples needs and preferences are different, debate constantly about 4K, spam threads with talk about canon resolution. And now, at the end of the day, once again, you can't tell the difference.

No need to debate, it was funny, that's all.

 

 

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15 hours ago, jcs said:

Order: A7S II, C300 II, 1DX II

Wow.  What has Canon done to the 1dx II's skin tones?  1dc I had looked way better than this.  Obviously the center looked the best, but that's a 15k camera.  At the end of the day I'd buy 6 a7sII's and tell a much more interesting story with different camera angles - unless the c300 II has a "buy one get one free sale" it's only always going to be a single viewpoint.

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21 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Wow.  What has Canon done to the 1dx II's skin tones?  1dc I had looked way better than this.  Obviously the center looked the best, but that's a 15k camera.  At the end of the day I'd buy 6 a7sII's and tell a much more interesting story with different camera angles - unless the c300 II has a "buy one get one free sale" it's only always going to be a single viewpoint.

All three are color graded. My 1DX Mkii looks nothing like this out of the box. But I certainly I could grade it so people look like martians. Also, this footage is shot at 1080p 30/mbps, far from the best mode to shoot on the 1DX Mkii. You are easily convinced. I own the Canon and the Sony, and I can tell you that shooting with both cameras in their highest quality modes will show the 1DX Mkii to be far superior... It's not a close contest... There is no contest. If you want to see what both cameras do out of the box, at their highest quality settings, with the same white balance, using the same lens... then look at the test I did here. In the video I do not color grade to match, instead I drop a preset from SpeedGrade on both camera's footage, and add a vignette, just to see how both files handle it. Further down someone tries to match the look. Matching looks is of no interest to me, as if I wanted to match a B-cam I would simply buy another 1DX Mkii and use it as the B-cam. I simply did this test to show what both could do all things being equal... same lens, iso, lighting conditions, highest settings etc...

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11 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Wow.  What has Canon done to the 1dx II's skin tones?  1dc I had looked way better than this.  Obviously the center looked the best, but that's a 15k camera.  At the end of the day I'd buy 6 a7sII's and tell a much more interesting story with different camera angles - unless the c300 II has a "buy one get one free sale" it's only always going to be a single viewpoint.

Don't blame Canon... yet. This was the first real studio shoot with the 1DX II, I'm still figuring it out. I have a lot more experience with the A7S II (took a little while to figure out the C300 II). Canon 5D3 RAW was the easiest (using ACR)- just like 'developing' RAW stills. In any case, I didn't spend much time grading the footage. That said- 'better' cameras shouldn't require much work to get a nice image if lit with decent quality lights and setting correct WB. That's why ARRI still commands very high prices...

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6 hours ago, Shield3 said:

At the end of the day I'd buy 6 a7sII's and tell a much more interesting story with different camera angles

You should get 30 Lumix G7s, imagine the camera angles then!

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8 hours ago, DBounce said:

All three are color graded. My 1DX Mkii looks nothing like this out of the box. But I certainly I could grade it so people look like martians. Also, this footage is shot at 1080p 30/mbps, far from the best mode to shoot on the 1DX Mkii. You are easily convinced. I own the Canon and the Sony, and I can tell you that shooting with both cameras in their highest quality modes will show the 1DX Mkii to be far superior... It's not a close contest... There is no contest. If you want to see what both cameras do out of the box, at their highest quality settings, with the same white balance, using the same lens... then look at the test I did here. In the video I do not color grade to match, instead I drop a preset from SpeedGrade on both camera's footage, and add a vignette, just to see how both files handle it. Further down someone tries to match the look. Matching looks is of no interest to me, as if I wanted to match a B-cam I would simply buy another 1DX Mkii and use it as the B-cam. I simply did this test to show what both could do all things being equal... same lens, iso, lighting conditions, highest settings etc...

DBounce, thanks for your tests and congratulations on your new cam!

Question:  We know the new Canon 1DX Mark ii does 12,500 ISO in 4K, and 25,000 ISO in HD.  

However, is it true in 4K 24p,  the image gets super noisy by 8,000 ISO,  or before? 

What would you say is a safe ISO before you need major post work?  (say on a narrative feature)

Thank you.

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9 hours ago, lafilm said:

DBounce, thanks for your tests and congratulations on your new cam!

Question:  We know the new Canon 1DX Mark ii does 12,500 ISO in 4K, and 25,000 ISO in HD.  

However, is it true in 4K 24p,  the image gets super noisy by 8,000 ISO,  or before? 

What would you say is a safe ISO before you need major post work?  (say on a narrative feature)

Thank you.

Thanks for the appreciation. I don't know about "super noisy",  I think it's pretty clean at 8k iso, but I need to do more testing to confirm that.  In my night testing i think i kept it at 3200 iso. In all honesty I'm pretty happy if I can get 6400 clean from most cameras as I'm lighting my scenes. But let me put it this way,  side by side, at the same iso value, the 1DX Mkii has been cleaner than the Sony A7Rii. However,  let me preface that by saying,  I have yet to test the A7Rii in APS-C mode verses the Canon. So perhaps the Sony can redeem itself in the high iso test using crop mode?

One thing I am absolutely certain of its that my best footage from the A7Rii is not as good as what the Canon can do. The Sony is handily outclassed. 

Of course you have to factor price into the equation. Sony aimed to hit a balance between performance vs cost. I think in that regard the Sony is a solid buy.

10 hours ago, Shield3 said:

I find it funny Dbounce thinks I'm anti-Canon - meanwhile I'm waiting for UPS to deliver my IDx (original) today.  I prefer Canon's look, period.

Ib don't think you're anti Canon... I think your anti single camera angle:-)

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9 hours ago, DBounce said:

However,  let me preface that by saying,  I have yet to test the A7Rii in APS-C mode verses the Canon. So perhaps the Sony can redeem itself in the high iso test using crop mode?

 

It is pretty established that the a7rii is a much better low-light camera in aps-c mode. Any comparison should be made with that in mind. I don't think it is fair to compare the canon with the a7rii in full frame mode as the canon is even cropped (1.4?) when recording 4K. Full frame 4k with the a7rii is a kind of bonus that is not offered by the canon. 

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On 5/12/2016 at 10:57 AM, Shield3 said:

At the end of the day I'd buy 6 a7sII's and tell a much more interesting story with different camera angles...

More interesting story? Really? With six A7sII on your hands, I think you might find yourself wanting to buy a rope. Hey Dave, can you see if there is any juice in battery 786? ;)

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4 hours ago, veraguth said:

It is pretty established that the a7rii is a much better low-light camera in aps-c mode. Any comparison should be made with that in mind. I don't think it is fair to compare the canon with the a7rii in full frame mode as the canon is even cropped (1.4?) when recording 4K. Full frame 4k with the a7rii is a kind of bonus that is not offered by the canon. 

Yes, I know that this is the case and it is next on my testing agenda... Once I have a little time to put something together I will post my findings. Strangely, I never use crop mode on the Sony even though it is reported to be better. I just didn't notice  a huge difference between that and full frame mode.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

1DX II only shines in 4K mode in Faithful PS with Contrast and Saturation and Sharpness turned all the way down. 1080p is fine, nothing new/. 

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On 5/10/2016 at 0:30 AM, jcs said:

This was our test to see how easy it would be to match these cameras. How would you make the camera settings more equivalent?

Well in that case you may have come about as close as possible. But why the different resolutions?

 

I agree that 1080p is nothing special on the 1DX MKii, but so far I like all the 4k that I have captured.

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