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Kinefinity hands on at NAB 2016


Jonesy Jones

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These are the questions and responses I have gotten so far. If you have more let me know.

  1. Are there plans to expand their international sales channel and expand dealership of their cameras? Yes, in discussion with distributors at this time. Already in Europe hdvideoshop.com.
  2. How do English speaking countries get support for the cameras (with a language barrier?) Apparently they will use a distributor for that. 
  3. Do they have a license to use ProRes and if not, when do they expect to get it? Prores license comes in parts apparently, and they have some parts of the license, but not all, working on final part.
  4. Does the global/rolling switchable shutter work in any protoypes/models? If so, is there a significant quality difference? Still working on global shutter switch, other than DR almost the same quality in global.
  5. Is there any loss in quality using Hi Speed modes, and if so, what will be compromised? (Resolution, noise, moire, aliasing). 1-2 stop loss in HFR, cab compensate a bit with ISO reduction
  6. Is every frame rate/resolution on the cameras available in both Raw and ProRes? yes, all resolutions and slo mo
  7. What is the functionality of the KineGrip? How long can a Sony battery power the camera for via the grip? Still working on Kinegrip, not here at NAB. 1.5 hours, res dependent
  8. How long does the Terra take to boot? 10-20 seconds
  9. How much more weight will the KineBACK and regular V-lock add to the overall camera? They didn't have an answer. Maybe they'll let me take it off the working model.
  10. What is the native ISO? 800 HFR 400
  11. If I was to pre-order the camera, when can I expect to receive it? Summer/autumn, but someone else said a month, but I would lean toward Fall 2016 for the 5K, just my impression.
  12. What cost are we looking at if I order the camera with a Kinemount and an extra adapter? (Like EF or PL)? 5k $5000 body-$7000 package, 6K $6000 body-$8000 package, they're speed booster/enhancer is $300.
  13. Does the 6k model have a 5k mode? If so, why not? probably not, don't know why.
  14. Are lower resolutions and Hi-Speed modes crops of the sensor or can they be used with the full Super35 image area? windowed for raw, full frame for Prores, though at launch will be crop/windowed and will add full sensor readout later in firmware.
  15. What is included in the Wi-Fi functionality? What can we control? Every setting can be controlled with iPad, works now, iPhone and android still developing
  16. OLPF? internal OLPF, but not interchangeable
  17. Buttons? The feel legit, but you can press and rotate them. :)  So that's why they looked crooked. But he specifically said they were preproduction buttons and this won't be an issue on production models.
  18. Overall. The camera looks and feels pro status. Solid, but light. Fan is nearly silent, but the camera isn't recording. Haven't seen it record yet. I've only seen the 6K, since they are just using the sensor from the Kinemax. RS looked bad on the screen, but could that be a combo of refresh lag? 5K will be same size and weight as 6K. They don't have most of their accessories here, so it's hard to judge those. 

Ok. I'll probably look at all the comments and ask more questions later. Let me know. I'm also trying to convince them to let me borrow a unit to test. Wish me luck. :)

 

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I would be so awesome if knefinity did something like the bmpcc, like a small compact camera sized camera with a built in screen and the kineraw colour and codec.  

Even just a stripped-down Terra-like body with the innards of the Kinemini 4K for $1500 would kill. Shit, I'd buy two.

At first it was good, they were prompt to answer questions (considering a the 11-14hr time zone delay for me) But over the last 6 weeks I have had an ongoing case- KineMini in for mount swap, and

Posted Images

So many questions!

Is the 1080p monitor output full quality or aliasy and low quality? How much more power consumption is 1080p output than 720p? 
Can it downscale to record oversampled ProRes in camera?
Can it bake LUTS?
Does it still have "Golden" modes for binned RAW?
Is the new 5k sensor better than the 6k? Why are the DR specs sometimes higher for 6k and sometimes lower?
Any AF support?
Any tech support in the US?
What's the deal with the different gain and EI modes?
does the 5k sensor have improved rolling shutter vs the 6k? is the 5k global shutter option working on their 5k prototype?
Is it awesome?

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1 minute ago, Noah Yuan-Vogel said:

So many questions!

Is the 1080p monitor output full quality or aliasy and low quality? How much more power consumption is 1080p output than 720p? 
Can it downscale to record oversampled ProRes in camera?
Can it bake LUTS?
Does it still have "Golden" modes for binned RAW?
Is the new 5k sensor better than the 6k? Why are the DR specs sometimes higher for 6k and sometimes lower?
Any AF support?
Any tech support in the US?
What's the deal with the different gain and EI modes?
does the 5k sensor have improved rolling shutter vs the 6k? is the 5k global shutter option working on their 5k prototype?
Is it awesome?

I have added answers to some of those at the top. Some of this I don't know and will ask later.

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The part where the 5k sensor is coming in the fall and the global shutter is not worked out yet makes me sad :(

And I guess the idea is that the lower sensitivity in HFR is due to the lower sampling resolution from cropping or line-skipping?  Or is it something else?  It's hard enough to get enough for HFR but lower sensitivity makes it extra hard, but if it's just due to the same things that other manufacturers have to deal with but don't compensate for then it's just par for the course.  ie. RED/Sony should rate their 2K modes 1-2 stops slower to compensate for increased visibility of noise but they dont.

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41 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Got through most, if not all of then. Let me know if you need anything else. Really appreciated that list. 

Btw, check out the OP, I added everything at the top.

Thanks for doing this. 

Two things: 

1. What on earth do they mean about having part of the license? Are they working on getting a full license? 

2. Full sensor readout for ProRes only... Do they know how long the FW update will be after release? 

I see the GS isn't working in a model yet. I hope this doesn't end up being a Blackmagic style face palm. 

These questions are really important and helpful so thank you for doing that. The closest thing I see to this camera is the FS5 with 7Q, however the organic timeless look of the Kinefinity cameras is something I've listed over for a long time! 

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18 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Thanks for doing this. 

Two things: 

1. What on earth do they mean about having part of the license? Are they working on getting a full license? 

2. Full sensor readout for ProRes only... Do they know how long the FW update will be after release? 

I see the GS isn't working in a model yet. I hope this doesn't end up being a Blackmagic style face palm. 

These questions are really important and helpful so thank you for doing that. The closest thing I see to this camera is the FS5 with 7Q, however the organic timeless look of the Kinefinity cameras is something I've listed over for a long time! 

Remember, there's a language thing. So keep that in mind. 

What they said was the prores license has parts, I understood it as stages. So I guess they are through most of the process, but not all the way. The one they were displaying HAD prores on it. 

Full sensor for raw AND prores, but prores will be cropped for lower res on shipment but full sensor in camera down res later in firmware. 

I know what you mean about the global shutter issue. When I told them that everyone had their eye on global shutter they seemed surprised. I think hfr, hi dr and hi res are sexier specs. I bet they get it in, we'll see what it looks like. 

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Is it just me, or does the button side look super Chinese..? Does this camera look/feel/work like a real cinema camera? Or do you need to make that jump in your mind? To me, it looks like a Chinese knock-off that has more or less the same quality, but overall just doesn't feel like a real one.

I could be wrong.

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I'm a little confused, The KineGuy said you can use the body without the extra back attached. I assume there isn't another battery in the original body.

Also, I saw the Raven (and perhaps most Red cameras) are able to power the camera through an extension cable leading to a V-mount battery. Is this a normal feature with most cinema cameras (and Terra)? I could totally see me using it just with the body alone, with everything else in a bag pack. 

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5 minutes ago, SR said:


Also, I saw the Raven (and perhaps most Red cameras) are able to power the camera through an extension cable leading to a V-mount battery. Is this a normal feature with most cinema cameras (and Terra)? I could totally see me using it just with the body alone, with everything else in a bag pack. 

All the RED cameras work this way (except RED One). There's a cable that attaches to the DC-IN port, with the other end being able to terminate in a V-mount, AB-mount, or I guess whatever you can make..

It's a solution that can be used for just about any camera that has a DC-in port

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10 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:
  • What is the native ISO? 800 HFR 400

What is native ISO for their 5K sensor? (I am guessing that is the answer for their 6K model which they gave you)

10 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:
  • Buttons? The feel legit, but you can press and rotate them. :)  So that's why they looked crooked. But he specifically said they were preproduction buttons and this won't be an issue on production models.

I kinda like this as a "feature". Sometimes you might press and rotate round a button (say to put it upside down) as a reminder note to yourself.

8 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I see the GS isn't working in a model yet. I hope this doesn't end up being a Blackmagic style face palm. 

 

If it ends up being only global shutter, and not switchable, that wouldn't be so bad.....  or if the 5K sensor has rolling shutter as good as the 4.6K sensor instead of as bad as the 6K sensor than that would also be on ok ish outcome. 

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1 hour ago, SR said:

I'm a little confused, The KineGuy said you can use the body without the extra back attached. I assume there isn't another battery in the original body.

You do not need to use a battery on the back if you're using the handle with a battery in the handle, that is what they meant. 

And yes, it has a DC IN on the side as well.

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5 hours ago, SR said:


I'm a little confused, The KineGuy said you can use the body without the extra back attached. I assume there isn't another battery in the original body.

Also, I saw the Raven (and perhaps most Red cameras) are able to power the camera through an extension cable leading to a V-mount battery. Is this a normal feature with most cinema cameras (and Terra)? I could totally see me using it just with the body alone, with everything else in a bag pack. 

Seems the 6k camera has a dynamic range of 14 FS, whereas the 5k is 15 FS (8:27).

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