herein2020

There is an R5/R6 user experience thread so I figured it was safe to start a Panasonic S5 user experience thread.  I've only shot with it for a few hours, mostly setting up (and learning) the menus and I know there are already endless YouTube reviews, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on my experience so far; completely unbiased, unsponsored and as someone who will use this camera for everything from music videos to weddings and if all goes well I might even use it for photo shoots.

Since there is so much that I like about this camera I've decided to just put my dislikes first because it is such a short list.
The Grip - This is my biggest dislike. holding the camera is so uncomfortable. The grip is really shallow and the strap mount sticks out and digs into your hand when you are holding it in a landscape configuration. Not so much a problem with video for me since I use the back display, but using the viewfinder for images is very uncomfortable. I'm going to try getting a dual battery grip to see if that improves it. The R6 by comparison feels like it was custom molded for my hands. The Lens Mount - I knew this going into it, but there are so few native Panasonic lenses for this camera that I will have to use an adapter which I hate doing. I know more lenses are coming but they are very expensive and everything I've read says the Sigma versions focus very slowly. I would love a Voigtlander fully manual 35mm lens for gimbal work like I have for the GH5. I have no idea yet what I will do for photography or if I will ever trust this camera for paid photo shoots. The Battery - I don't understand the battery at all. It fits the GH5 and has contacts for the GH5 yet for the S5 the contacts are on the other side? Why didn't they do what Canon did and simply make a higher capacity battery with the same contacts?  Not only are spare batteries impossible to find right now, this means all of my GH5 batteries won't work in this camera....so annoying. Ok, short list over now lets get to the stuff I care about that made me realize this was truly the camera for me. I first ordered the R6 and returned it (horrible user experience for my needs) so I am going to kind of compare my experience with the S5 to the R6 since they probably kind of are targeted to the same buyer and since it is hard to ignore the Canon hype machine even when you know about the R6's overheating issues. 
No Overheating - Ok we all know that but I had to put it out there anyway. This was the number one reason I returned the R6. The S5 on the other hand shoots glorious 4K until the card fills up (some limitations of course for 10 bit and 60FPS but it does have unlimited modes). Even if the R6 didn't overheat you would still hit that 30min limit and every single 4K mode overheated. Dual Slot Video Recording - The S5 gives me every option I could want and even a few I don't care about. The R6 will only record to a single slot. Electronic Level Meter - The S5 has it....of course, and it actually stays on while recording video. For some crazy reason the R6 disables the electronic level from showing on screen while recording video. XLR Audio Module - As annoyed as I am at Panasonic for the battery situation, the XLR module from the GH5 works with the S5 so all is almost forgiven. The R6 of course has nothing for XLR. I tested the module today, the S5 recognized it instantly and the audio was perfect. Free VLOG - Ok "Free" is a very generous term, but it does not cost extra. And this is real VLOG not some flavor that just flattens the profile, unlike the R6 which currently ships with CLOG. Canon said CLOG3 was coming in the future, but who knows if it will actually include the R6 or when "the future" really is. Body Quality - The S5 actually feels slightly lower quality than the body of the GH5, but that could be because it is lighter and smaller. Regardless, the quality feels way better than the R6. Sync/Desync Photo/Video Settings - It took me a long time to find, but it is possible to separate the photo and video settings and you even get to pick which ones stay synced with the other. When running and gunning you want shutter angle, VLOG, etc for video and shutter speed, Natural profile, etc for photos. You can set it so that they are completely separate, not all cameras let you do that and even the R6 did not let me pick which settings to keep in sync (i.e. keep just ISO the same between the two).  Dial Position - It is great to have the video mode and Manual photo mode side by side on the dial. The R6 had them at literally opposite ends of the dial....very annoying. Dedicated Buttons - There is a dedicated ISO button and a AF/MF switch on the lens. The R6 had neither. I use the AF / MF lens switch all the time, its the fastest way to be 100% certain all of the AF stuff is off, especially if you are switching between photos and video. Video Footage - The footage out of the camera so far to me in with my very limited testing is incredible, I didn't think Panasonic had it in them. The colors are perfect to my eyes, the codecs are super easy to play back in VLC and actually easier to edit in Davinci Resolve than the GH5's footage. Both 4K60FPS and 4K30FPS play smoothly even after color grading. So far the footage grades as easily as the R6 footage with the added benefits of not needing proxies. Codecs - You get to pick H.264 or H.265 and still get to shoot in VLOG and 4:2:2 10bit. For some crazy reason Canon with the R6 forces you to shoot in H.265 if you want to use CLOG. I will happily sacrifice a little storage space to never have to try to edit H.265 again. Manual Focus Features - I hated the focus rings on the Panasonic MFT lenses, they were non linear which made manual focusing nearly impossible. I ended up getting manual Voigtlander lenses instead. Panasonic has fixed that big time; not only can you now pick linear you can even pick how many degrees to go from stop to stop. I think the R6 let me pick linear but not the focus throw. I do miss Canon's 3 little triangles when manually focusing, to me that's still the best MF guide in the industry. On my S5, focus peaking doesn't seem to work; its on but I can't see it so I have to play with that some more. Timelapse Photography - Ok I had to throw this one in there. Maybe other cameras have this, but this is literally the first camera I have ever owned that lets you do a time lapse in body without an intervalometer AND that lets you take more than 99 images. That's always been a pet peeve of mine for most cameras.  Wireless Flash Control - Another pet peeve of mine answered by Panasonic, it can wirelessly control up to 4 flashes without needing an additional transmitter. Of course I'll never use this feature since I already have a complete flash system, but for someone starting out this means even less gear to lug around and to buy. Big Red Recording Box - Who hasn't thought they were recording when they weren't? I turned on the big red box right away (as soon as I found it). This is great, and will definitely help in the future. The R6 of course didn't have this. LVF Button - I didn't understand how important this was until I shot with the R6. It was so annoying in the R6 to have to  pick view finder or back screen display. If you picked view finder you had to go into the view finder and navigate back to the setting to change it back. If you picked auto, the screen kept shutting off on me when the camera got to close to my hand or body. Maybe you could map a custom button but I like leaving all of them at their defaults. For the S5 if you want to turn off the viewfinder sensor just press the LVF button...switch to just the VF press it again, switch to auto press it again. So easy to disable/enable one or the other. Auto mode is terrible, switches off the screen all the time if anything gets near the sensor. Here is my neutral list, either I don't really have an opinion yet either way, or I haven't tested the camera enough to feel good or bad about it.
Photography Capabilities - I'm still kind of neutral on the photography department. All I have is the kit lens and didn't have time to try the photography part. If it comes even close to the R6's photo performance that will be good enough for me.  My Sigma adapter gets here Friday so I will be able to test it with my Canon lenses. Auto Focus - I never used it in the GH5 but this time around it is different because I want to try the photography features as well. In my brief testing, the AF worked fine for photography. It still has the hybrid AF option where you half press the shutter button for the initial focus then can fine tune it using the focus ring so that's good enough for me for video. Menu System - It is improved a bit over the GH5 but still nowhere near as intuitive to me as Canon's menus. I think once I set up my Favorites menu it will be fine, but there's so many features I'm having a hard time finding some of them. I never did learn the GH5's menus, I just created a video Favorites list and that's all I use. My 5DIV is a different story.  
Final Thoughts - This camera makes me wish I was a travel photographer/videographer. It has so many uncompromised features that would be so useful when traveling that you could practically literally bring just this camera, a wireless flash, XLR module, a few lav mics, variable ND filters, a small video light, travel tripod, and shoot just about anything photo or video. I'm already thinking about projects that I want to shoot with this camera vs the R6 where all I could think about was if it would even make it through the shoot.

I haven't tried the 24/25/30p so can't comment, theoretically it should give less heat than 4KHQ
 
Well here is my thought on the R5 after the race day
 
1. AF   The most reliable method for me is the Zone AF, tracking AF on cars can get lost when I also do the panning or when the car is down to certain area on screen or if there is a lot of cars which can block the view. Expand AF can get OoF once the car goes past and I have to use manual to get back in focus quickly otherwise it is really really slow to get back to focus. (with telephoto lens), There is still occasional focus hunt when I panning across to follow the car (from forward to sideway)
2. Custom Video Mode Major advantage over R6 is the custom video mode, currently I have set to FHD/4K50P/4K100P, so when I want to change I just press the mode and change. I can totally feel the pain for R6 user which currently doesn't have this, Canon should really update R6 for this feature.
3. Movie Crop Mode You can't set the movie crop mode to a custom key which is super dumb, I have to go to menu each time i want to do crop mode, on Sony and Panasonic you can set key for much faster access.  If you shoot in crop mode and change to your custom mode it will still shoot in crop mode (unless in 4K100/120/8K).
4. NTSC/PAL Selector  Much better done on Canon than Sony or Panasonic, just change the frequency and shoot, no need to format card (Sony) or restart camera (Panasonic), so if I need more slowmo I just change to NTSC and keep on shooting.
5. Battery Issue  I had problem where it just suddenly give me error when using EF Lens on the adapter on the genuine LP-E6N battery, I have to use LP-E6NH to make the problem go away. I will need to investigate this more. Though I feel I might get more LP-E6NH at end and sell the old LP-E6N.
6. No CLOG on H.264 This is probably the most dumbest move on Canon, we get that HEVC offer twice the efficiency but the bitrate is quite healthy on the H.264, there is absolute no technical issue for clog not on H.264! Hope Canon can really fix this as X.265 is so awful to edit.  There is HDR PQ to increase DR on H.264 if you dont want X.265 or Andrew's EOSHD Clog to emulate Clog on H.264, I used cinestyle as it matches up with the 1DX2 which also use cinestyle to help with edit in post as the video is due next day.  My editor have no problem editing the 4K50P on H.264, though 4K100P is still lag feast on Ryzen 7 4800H.
 
Other than that the editor say the video quality is definitely better than the C100MKII I shot on previous race, unfortunately we can't share our video as it belongs to the TV station (for subscriber only) but here is the  video from the team's media team  (some of my R5 footage is from 4:36 onwards)
 
 
 

Exactly, I always laugh at people who say IBIS is useless or real cameramen don't need IBIS. The reality is its great when its needed and the best part is it can be turned off when its not needed. When I am shooting real estate videos with wide angle lenses on a gimbal the last thing you want is IBIS on. It is much better to stabilize in post than to try to stabilize wobbly IBIS footage (i.e. impossible).
 
On the other hand when I am in the middle of a big event and need to hand hold some b roll footage  with a tiny GH5 then for me at least the footage would be unusable without IBIS. Even with IBIS, proper technique, a cage, top handle, and mic, my GH5 is simply not heavy enough to get rid of my shakiness.  The C200 is a different story, I love hand holding it with the cage, top monitor, top handle, V mount battery,  Canon battery, Canon grip and I added a second grip to the left side.  After I tuck that battery under my arm I feel like I can shoot anything handheld.
 
I think IBIS and AF are both very overrated for video but both are great tools in scenarios where they work well. I always like having more options (as long as I can also turn them off) then not having an option that would make my life easier in a certain scenario.

Exactly, I always laugh at people who say IBIS is useless or real cameramen don't need IBIS. The reality is its great when its needed and the best part is it can be turned off when its not needed. When I am shooting real estate videos with wide angle lenses on a gimbal the last thing you want is IBIS on. It is much better to stabilize in post than to try to stabilize wobbly IBIS footage (i.e. impossible).
 
On the other hand when I am in the middle of a big event and need to hand hold some b roll footage  with a tiny GH5 then for me at least the footage would be unusable without IBIS. Even with IBIS, proper technique, a cage, top handle, and mic, my GH5 is simply not heavy enough to get rid of my shakiness.  The C200 is a different story, I love hand holding it with the cage, top monitor, top handle, V mount battery,  Canon battery, Canon grip and I added a second grip to the left side.  After I tuck that battery under my arm I feel like I can shoot anything handheld.
 
I think IBIS and AF are both very overrated for video but both are great tools in scenarios where they work well. I always like having more options (as long as I can also turn them off) then not having an option that would make my life easier in a certain scenario.

Yeah that sucks. The trend is the same regarding wedding here in Hong Kong as well. That's why wedding videos in Hong Kong tend to look very horrible. Poorly exposed images shot with wide lenses, tons of unnecessarily gimbal shots... etc. Luckily I am in the event business where videos get paid more. It's only because of COVID I am next to jobless for 8 months. 😅
The S5 looks very nice and I actually like Panasonic very much. Hope you have a nice experience with the S5. 

Yes I think the cell phone is really hurting this industry for events. My next least favorite trend is somehow in my area wedding photographers are paid more than wedding videographers. These days it seems like the videographers are hired as an afterthought and only with whatever funds are left over from the wedding photographer.  I've turned down multiple requests this year because they had no budget and every one of them had already hired their wedding photographer.
 
I'm with you for this year.....I cancelled my C70 order, I had so many low budget clients approach me in the past few weeks that I decided its better to wait and see. Instead I am getting the S5 as a gimbal camera / B cam and if I get a shoot that could use the C70 I'll just rent it.

Exactly, I always laugh at people who say IBIS is useless or real cameramen don't need IBIS. The reality is its great when its needed and the best part is it can be turned off when its not needed. When I am shooting real estate videos with wide angle lenses on a gimbal the last thing you want is IBIS on. It is much better to stabilize in post than to try to stabilize wobbly IBIS footage (i.e. impossible).
 
On the other hand when I am in the middle of a big event and need to hand hold some b roll footage  with a tiny GH5 then for me at least the footage would be unusable without IBIS. Even with IBIS, proper technique, a cage, top handle, and mic, my GH5 is simply not heavy enough to get rid of my shakiness.  The C200 is a different story, I love hand holding it with the cage, top monitor, top handle, V mount battery,  Canon battery, Canon grip and I added a second grip to the left side.  After I tuck that battery under my arm I feel like I can shoot anything handheld.
 
I think IBIS and AF are both very overrated for video but both are great tools in scenarios where they work well. I always like having more options (as long as I can also turn them off) then not having an option that would make my life easier in a certain scenario.

Those are great shots, if I shot sports or fast moving objects the S5 definitely wouldn't have been my choice.  I look forward to seeing how you like the S5, I plan on using it as my GH5 gimbal cam replacement and as a b cam to my C200 on bigger shoots.  I'm even cautiously optimistic that it may serve as my A cam on smaller hybrid photo/video shoots. Never thought I would say that about anything other than a Canon camera but like @Andrew Reid stated....it seems like Panasonic is one of the few companies offering everything people want (except AF) and I don't use AF at all  for video.
Everyone raves about the Canon's AF but it was shockingly bad when trying to film a dance group this weekend with the R6. It kept getting lost when they did certain moves and would lock onto an audience member in the background until I tapped the screen. I switched to MF after the first take. I think good AF definitely has its place, but for most of my work every time I've tried it it fails.

Well it is official for me, I'm going to return it. I probably won't even keep it past the weekend. The countdown timer is completely unbearable; shooting video with this camera feels like one of those outdoor shoots where it can rain any minute and ruin the shoot; except this is how it will be every time I use it. It can't replace my GH5, 5D4, or C200, and it can't even be a reliable C cam so it has no place in my gear bag. Just shooting BTS footage today with a mixture of clips and photos and I managed to get the overheat timer down to 5min. I tried changing the date and pulling the battery but the time remaining didn't change. To my touch the body was barely warm and the ambient temp was around 78F.

The only good news is that the overheat timer did seem to recover pretty quickly after the camera was turned off, it went back up to 10min within a few min of being turned off. This is with FW 1.1.1.  I think calling the R6 a hybrid is generous when its video features are less reliable than my 4yr old 5DIV.  Basically for me this camera will never pay for itself, and I will always need to bring something else as a backup if it is a true hybrid session so there's no point in keeping it.
 
I know this thread is supposed to be about the user experience and not the overheating but in real world hybrid use the overheating ruined the user experience for me.

Yeah the devil is in the detail!  R6 dont have reliable long session 4k is a huge bummer, the C70's AF apparently is just slightly better than C300 III but nowhere near the same as DPAF II on the R5/R6/1DXIII.
This race I was shooting in cinestyle instead of clog because of fast turnaround we need (due next morning), editor have no problem editing 4k50p on H.264, 4k100p is still quite laggy but we do not using too many of those as our is for TV segment while the main media team is the artsy stuff.
S5 should be really good for your use,  I got S5 myself cause it is quite good for the price you pay for the features and more for my side jobs (with anamorphic and stuff).  R5 is mainly for company work and some photography.  The main video guy for this race team is still on GH5.
 
Here is photo I took on R5 with the RF 600mm, the 600mm is pretty good for the price/size/weight.

That is pretty cool, it seems like there is more than meets the eye when comparing the R5 and R6. I think if the R6 had even 1 4K mode that didn't overheat it would be far more useable. When the timer got down to 5min I tried switching out of CLOG thinking maybe H264 would add more time (no go), then I dropped down to 4K30 and it only added 2min.  I guess I just had to experience everything first hand to decide it wasn't for me. There's only so many reviews you can watch until you have to see for yourself.
 
Based on my R6 experience I cancelled my C70 preorder, am returning the R6 and ordered a Panasonic S5. For my particular use cases the S5 ticks every box (dual slot recording, XLR audio via adapter, no overheating, 4K60, H264 video files, useable photography features, etc.).
 
I think if the R5 offered dual slot video recording and Canon offered an XLR adapter for it along with the one mode that does not overheat that would have been enough to make me consider the R5. Video recording redundancy and audio is pretty big for me.  I have no doubt that I would have enjoyed the photography features.

Well it is official for me, I'm going to return it. I probably won't even keep it past the weekend. The countdown timer is completely unbearable; shooting video with this camera feels like one of those outdoor shoots where it can rain any minute and ruin the shoot; except this is how it will be every time I use it. It can't replace my GH5, 5D4, or C200, and it can't even be a reliable C cam so it has no place in my gear bag. Just shooting BTS footage today with a mixture of clips and photos and I managed to get the overheat timer down to 5min. I tried changing the date and pulling the battery but the time remaining didn't change. To my touch the body was barely warm and the ambient temp was around 78F.

The only good news is that the overheat timer did seem to recover pretty quickly after the camera was turned off, it went back up to 10min within a few min of being turned off. This is with FW 1.1.1.  I think calling the R6 a hybrid is generous when its video features are less reliable than my 4yr old 5DIV.  Basically for me this camera will never pay for itself, and I will always need to bring something else as a backup if it is a true hybrid session so there's no point in keeping it.
 
I know this thread is supposed to be about the user experience and not the overheating but in real world hybrid use the overheating ruined the user experience for me.

Yes, it looks like they came to the same conclusion that I did....its not feasible for video. Also their implementation of encryption for the sake of speed is very weak. The 64 LFSR encryption method can be reversed in less than an hour with a fast enough modern computer, even they admitted it wasn't very good and had to be downgraded from the typical 256bit standard due to IO speeds and that was in 2014.
Your comparison of 5200RPM drives is mixing apples and oranges, the drive read/write speed is not where you will see the most penalty, typically the encryption/decryption is done in the CPU which is where you could get up to a 30% hit when reading/writing to the encrypted drives. Modern CPUs tend to have way more power than most users need so you wouldn't notice the hit to the CPU unless you did a before and after benchmark and modern CPUs are designed to perform cryptographic functions efficiently. The problem of course as I mentioned earlier, is that cameras do not have all of these spare CPU cycles laying around or onboard TPM chips. In the Magic Lantern example the camera's CPU would be needed to encrypt every byte of data in real time which is where the performance penalty and unreliability would kick in. 
A camera cannot afford to lose 30% of its CPU and encounter up to 20%+ more storage latency when recording video or shooting bursts of images; the buffer would never have a chance to clear.
The true hardware solutions like the USB-C drive I sent you manage to skip this penalty because you are technically writing to a storage space after passing through a dedicated encryption chip whose only purpose is to encrypt the data; data which can then only be read after the proper pin has been input into that dedicated encryption chip. Even though this may still incur a small penalty in IO, you manage to get enough remaining IO to conform to the USB-C standard which means it will have enough remaining IO bandwidth to meet the USB-C data transfer standards.
Quick Google Search
http://cherrybyte.blogspot.com/2012/11/quick-comparison-of-disk-performance.html
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=2019-linux-encrypt&num=2
https://www.isumsoft.com/computer/how-much-does-bitlocker-impacts-on-hard-disk-io-performance.html

That would work but wouldn't be a great option, in addition to not being able to review the footage the camera would not be able to verify the integrity of the file after dumping the buffer unless it also signed each file then checked the signature prior to clearing the buffer.  Any way you look at it, the encryption process would incur overhead; processing, heat, HW, development, etc. and include compromises (complexity, possible lost data, additional costs, etc) for a very small target client base. 
Also, if you really are in a scenario where the government seizes your camera; if they can't read the data and you are physically unable to provide the decryption key on the spot they will now have an excuse to search the rest of your gear or they will simply destroy the storage medium.
Once again phones have the advantage here, they already have network connectivity, they already have data at rest encryption options, they can already livestream events as they happen, etc. Trying to reverse engineer all of that and put it into a camera then trying to market and sell that camera simply isn't something any for profit camera maker would do.
 
All of the encrypted SD cards that I have seen require a full OS or some way of loading their decryption/encryption application onto the device; something that would be impossible to do with a camera. There may be one that I am unaware of (entirely possible), but I haven't seen a simple SD card you can just plug into a camera and have it encrypt everything that is written to it. I believe they all need an app, and you need to enter the proper authentication information into the app prior to using writable space on the card. I have seen USB drives that have physical PIN pad buttons which is how you enter the volume password like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Apricorn-Validated-256-bit-Encryption-ASK3-120GB/dp/B00W2EN8CE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1601314672&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A6813186011&s=pc&sr=1-1 but for that to work the camera has to support writing to a USB drive or SSD drive.
The FlashAir SD card looks like the best option, but it looks like it would be complicated to setup and get to work reliably. Just turning on and off the camera would require the offloading device to reliably reconnect to the wifi, the app to automatically grab the files as it detects them, then move those files to a cloud backup solution (and we are talking large JPGs here).  It's been my experience that getting that many different technologies to work together reliably and repeatedly is uncommon.

Well it is official for me, I'm going to return it. I probably won't even keep it past the weekend. The countdown timer is completely unbearable; shooting video with this camera feels like one of those outdoor shoots where it can rain any minute and ruin the shoot; except this is how it will be every time I use it. It can't replace my GH5, 5D4, or C200, and it can't even be a reliable C cam so it has no place in my gear bag. Just shooting BTS footage today with a mixture of clips and photos and I managed to get the overheat timer down to 5min. I tried changing the date and pulling the battery but the time remaining didn't change. To my touch the body was barely warm and the ambient temp was around 78F.

The only good news is that the overheat timer did seem to recover pretty quickly after the camera was turned off, it went back up to 10min within a few min of being turned off. This is with FW 1.1.1.  I think calling the R6 a hybrid is generous when its video features are less reliable than my 4yr old 5DIV.  Basically for me this camera will never pay for itself, and I will always need to bring something else as a backup if it is a true hybrid session so there's no point in keeping it.
 
I know this thread is supposed to be about the user experience and not the overheating but in real world hybrid use the overheating ruined the user experience for me.

Were you in CLOG on the R6? That makes a big difference, I've read it is 8 bit H.264 footage until you turn on CLOG. I didn't test 4K30FPS at all or non CLOG. H.264 should be fine because NVIDIA cards can HW decode but need the CPU for H.265, my CPU was hovering around 70% and DR was playing the footage at around 5FPS until I created proxies.  I do think Canon needs to add an option to use CLOG with H.264 like the C200, this would be the best of both worlds as long as you properly expose and WB on set.
Speaking of CLOG, it really needs CLOG3, my Canon CLOG3 to REC709 LUT did not work on this footage, it was way oversaturated and the colors shifted a bit as was expected, so now I'm hunting for a good Canon CLOG to Rec709 LUT.
 
 
Even with my terrible setup (kit lens, probably not properly exposed, no proper CLOG to Rec709 LUT), the colors,  ease of grading,  final look, skin tones, and highlight roll-off, was better than anything I have gotten out of the GH5 except under perfect conditions.  Below is a quick screen grab from the shoot. For exposure I just turned on 95% zebras, watched the histogram, and dialed it down right below the zebras for the sky, the sun was setting in the background and in the display the sky looked blown out, on the WFM it shows clipping but I was able to bring back some of the details in the sky anyway. With the GH5 I'm pretty sure I would have lost the sky and it would have been difficult to match the skin tones. I wish I had a side by side but this was very quick and impromptu. 
 
The shot below was using CLOG, 4K60FPS, on a 1080P timeline cropped in by 60% in DR for framing, and the finishing LUT was from Noam Krolls LUT pack

Good to see Nikon still trying...how many feet do they have in the grave 1 or both? Nothing about Nikon feels like they will survive this one.

Ok, so I couldn't just keep sitting here thinking the R6 might work for what I need and the C70 was overkill so I came up with the perfect plan that ended up with me owning an R6. I have the C70 on pre-order but it won't ship until Nov. The R6 was available at a local retailer and the retailer lets you return the R6 for up to 30 days after purchase with a 15% restocking fee. So this sounds perfect to me, I get to "rent" the R6 for a fraction of the price of a normal rental house for 29 days which gives me time to cancel my C70 pre-order if the R6 is perfect for my needs, or I can take it back before the 30 days is up and still be on the list for the C70.
Anyway, I've now had it less than 4 hours and there are already some things I don't like about it that I thought I would be able to live with, and some other surprises that no one on YouTube mentioned
Overheating - yes it really is a thing. It was 78F today and the remaining available time on the timer hovered around the 10min mark for most of the day.  I was doing a lot in the menus, taking a few images, and shooting a few clips and had had it set to CLOG and 4K60FPS which is my normal shooting setup on the GH5. I never hit the overheating limit but staring at the timer completely ruined the shooting experience for me.  I can't imagine being on a paid shoot and all I can think about is if it will overheat. It shipped with FW version 1.1.0 and I upgraded it to version 1.1.1 after shooting during the day so I will test some more over the weekend to see if it gets any better. For everything I liked about the camera, the overheating was just this huge problem that overshadowed the whole experience. Electronic Level - I am a bit of a fanatic about having a perfectly level horizon so I didn't think anything of it when the electronic level came on in video mode as expected. What I truly can't understand however is why it turns off when you start recording. This completely blew my mind.....while recording is the main time I need to know if it is staying level.  Also, a lot of other useful information leaves the screen as well. I like to verify right after pressing the record button that all of the settings are set properly....well a lot of them disappear from the screen while recording, things like frame rate, color space, etc...things I like to glance at while recording in live view. XLR Audio - I tried to tell myself this wasn't that big of a deal but I literally have a weekend of shoots lined up and all of them require audio. I'm already trying to think how I will handle it for the weekend. With the GH5 I just throw on the adapter, put a wireless lav on the client and we are set.  Editing - Just like everyone else stated, editing these files are a nightmare. You will need to transcode. I have a 14 core CPU, RTX2080Ti video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, and NVME storage....doesn't matter, DR couldn't play the files until I created proxies. Dedicated Buttons - I found myself really missing the dedicated ISO button from my 5DIV and especially the MF switch on the lens. I know you can remap buttons but I don't like doing that, I like to keep everything default and use the Favorites menu. I also miss the flip switch that immediately got you into video mode or photo mode on the 5DIV instead of rotating the dial past all of the other presets that I'll never use. Build Quality - The build quality is also lower than I expected. I expected it to be on par with the GH5.......its not, let alone the 5DIV. For the price I paid the build quality is a disappointment. The video image quality does look amazing, I'm sure I didn't expose properly and I didn't have a Canon CLOG to REC709 LUT so I did some quick hand grading; oh and I had the crappy RF 24-105 F4-F7.1 kit lens, but what came out of the camera despite all of this was nothing short of incredible.  I also took some quick images with it and of course they were what I expected from a 1DX sensor, so no complaints there. Speaking of photography that side of the house is rock solid. No complaints there, and thanks to this camera I am finally sold on using an EVF for photography. The EOS R had noticeable lag when panning and just didn't look right to me; the R6's EVF had no noticeable lag and felt a lot more natural.
I truly do not know what I will do yet,  I can say without hesitation that with my very limited testing the R6's video quality blows the GH5 out of the water....but there's so many compromises in so many other areas especially with the overheating that I don't know if it is worth it.  Lets not even talk about the fact that it does not do dual slot video recording and still has a 30min recording limit. It also seems like even after all of the discussions about overheating I still don't understand....from a cold start the R6 only shows 15min of recording time for 4K60FPS. I did test it and the overheat warning came on at 20min but it kept going until it hit the 30min mark. After turning it back on it refused to let me start recording again and did not return to 15min available until about an hr later.

I am fortunate that I do not do this full time or right now I wouldn't even be considering a C70 with the way the market is right now. Very few photographers/videographers in my area that I know do it full time, except for a few of the larger production shops there's just not enough money in it to quit your day job. 
I know what you mean about the cost of the C70, I've done the numbers; I guess it just irks me when I bring $20K of equipment to a shoot for a client that is complaining about $400USD. The only thing that pays real money in my area is corporate video work (interviews, promo videos, etc.)  which doesn't come along that often especially now.
 
 
Those are crazy numbers to me, I'm in the US and its definitely better here at least in the larger cities if you do it full time.  Many days I feel though that photography and video really are a dying art. I think I have met maybe 1 or 2 total photographers/videographers who do this full time because there is just no money in it. The cell phone has completely killed this market and now pictures are rated by how many half naked women are in them or how popular the people are in them vs the artistic composition or technical complexity. A cell phone video horribly exposed with no audio of Kim Kardashian will be viewed by more people than a Hollywood blockbuster with a $50M budget.
 
 
You think that until you are here in the US. I could technically afford those things but to me I still treat this as a business, and I know buying all of that gear that will not pay for itself would not make sense business wise.  I do love gear as much as the next person and have to fight the urge all the time to buy new things; if customers paid more I wouldn't hesitate to buy more but the reality is most customers just aren't willing to pay for quality these days.
Another bad trend in my area is that customers are more willing to hire a wedding photographer vs a videographer and when they do hire a videographer it is with whatever is left over from the budget for the wedding photographer.  So these are the things I think about when something like the C70 comes along.

I definitely know its value....I think my problem is getting customers that agree with me and are willing to pay for it. That's a major problem in my area, customers who want everything for nothing and they all seem to have a friend who just bought a camera that will do it for free.  But...I digress, that's another rant for another day.  The C70 does look fantastic, it still feels too much like a C200 replacement for me vs. a GH5 replacement.

For me the S5 is dead to me because of the lens mount. The cost of the body would be reasonable all the way up to around $2300USD to me, but having to buy new glass just gives me a headache. That's why I would much rather that a GH6 were released....I'd be willing to buy a new body if that was the only cost. But for me to spend upwards of $6K (body plus a few lenses) it will need to have better AF, and be useable as a true hybrid camera like I thought the R6 would be. I don't know why I still somehow think Canon will "fix" the R6, but that is my hope.

I think most of the cinema cameras from most of the big companies don't have it.  I know the EVA1 and FS7 have it but I don't think the Reds, Arris, etc. have it or the FS9. With Canon you don't get a digital spirit level until the C700.
 
 
I had something similar happen, I had a beach scene in the middle of the day for a music video and used a variable ND filter that I had tested the day before and was sure it was up to the job.  After shooting the scene and loading the footage into DR there was a distinctive x pattern in the footage. Nothing I did would completely remove it. In my previous day's testing the sun wasn't as bright as at the beach so I hadn't needed to turn the ND filter up that far.
 
Long story short I sent the customer the completed video, did what I could in the color grade to try to remove the x, and waited for the negative feedback. Turns out she loved it and no one has ever said anything about it.  
 
The worst part about it is I have no way of preventing it from happening again unless I buy another variable ND filter or switch to fixed filters. I have to just guess at where the pattern starts to show and it is impossible to see until after the LUT is applied in post. This particular ND filter does not have hard stops so I can't even mark where it starts to show.  Now I use it only as a last resort for events and use fixed ND filters for music videos.
 
Onboard ND filters are amazing and I still smile as I push the ND filter button on my C200. People who dismiss the onboard ND filters as adding major value to a camera have probably never used them.
 
I still might cancel my C70 pre-order, at least until work picks back up; the camera will still be available. Maybe the R6 will have improved to the point to where it is viable again (who am I kidding), now that Panasonic has seen everything that is coming out they can make the GH6 even better, or maybe the C50 is really all I need at a lower price point.

Am I the only one who misses the electronic level found in most MILCs and DSLRs? I don't understand why it is missing from the C200 and I would assume it is also missing from the C70. I religiously use the level in my GH5 to double check my gimbal horizon and when setting up on a tripod especially since I offer real estate video tours where a level horizon is critical. 
It's so annoying to pay $5500+ for a body and not get this basic functionality.

Am I the only one who misses the electronic level found in most MILCs and DSLRs? I don't understand why it is missing from the C200 and I would assume it is also missing from the C70. I religiously use the level in my GH5 to double check my gimbal horizon and when setting up on a tripod especially since I offer real estate video tours where a level horizon is critical. 
It's so annoying to pay $5500+ for a body and not get this basic functionality.

Me too.  I was looking at a great hybrid like the R6 or R5 as a replacement, then saw the issues it had.  A7SIII is only 12mp (too low for photo) and I've never warmed to Sony  anyway.  Panasonic still feels it needs an update to bring it fullframe 60p rather than crop and add great AF to an S1H successor.  The C70 as  a pure cinema camera feels like the right direction for me, but is also hampered by Canons cripple hammer regarding features their hybrids have and the competition gives at a much cheaper price.  
I feel I am still waiting for that perfect camera for me.  And a worthy replacement to the GH5.