herein2020

If it has the C80's triple native ISO that could be interesting. Panasonic's lens mount and AF will always be its own worst enemy and they haven't updated the S1H since 2019 so anyone who was going to move on from Panasonic already has and has already had 5yrs to delve into a different camera maker's ecosystem so I don't see anything from Panasonic making anything from Canon or Sony DOA. BTW I am a big Panasonic fan....just being realistic.

I agree 100% that it is getting harder and harder to make a living in this industry. What makes it even harder and what hasn't yet been mentioned is that the price of everything is also going up, so not only do you have more and more clients who want things for free or lower cost, your own cost of living is increasing exponentially. 
I still will never forget a really badly exposed cell phone mirror photo of Kim Kardashian got over 100M views and true masterpieces from some of the top photographers in the world would be lucky to get 1,000 views. These days true talent and art are not appreciated at all, what matters to the current generation is who is in the picture or video and what they are doing, not the level of skill or years of knowledge needed to create it.
I personally have been affected by the current trends as well, I had to give up some of my service offerings because the level of effort vs what the clients were willing to pay meant I would be making less than minimum wage after expenses and my time were accounted for. Residential Real Estate Photography/Video, Weddings, and a few others I have dropped completely unless something really high end comes my way.
I will say though that for the niche I specialize in (events, promo videos/photography, etc.) social media has also opened new doors for me. I do freelance photography/video work for some of the big ad agencies in my area and even at that level their clients are obsessed with social media. They literally host events with social media in mind, and where I come in is they hire me to film them. I filmed more private VIP social media inspired events this year than ever before and to these clients money is no obstacle as long as it produces something that will generate useable social media content.
More big names than ever before are trying to reach new clients on social media and they hire people like me to create their content. They also scour social media to see what their competition is doing and send me their work and ask if I can create something like that for them; it is so odd using 8K capable cameras and thousands of dollars worth of gear to create 30-60s worth of content that will be viewed at 480P in the worst aspect ratio and orientation possible that its almost laughable.
I literally had to rethink the way that I shoot and completely focus on anything that will grab the audience's attention for 2 seconds vs trying to be artistic or create content that truly took planning and was challenging to create because that's what my clients want because that's what their audience wants.
Anyone who hasn't seen the movie Idiocracy should check it out, it feels like that future is already here in many ways.

I agree 100% that it is getting harder and harder to make a living in this industry. What makes it even harder and what hasn't yet been mentioned is that the price of everything is also going up, so not only do you have more and more clients who want things for free or lower cost, your own cost of living is increasing exponentially. 
I still will never forget a really badly exposed cell phone mirror photo of Kim Kardashian got over 100M views and true masterpieces from some of the top photographers in the world would be lucky to get 1,000 views. These days true talent and art are not appreciated at all, what matters to the current generation is who is in the picture or video and what they are doing, not the level of skill or years of knowledge needed to create it.
I personally have been affected by the current trends as well, I had to give up some of my service offerings because the level of effort vs what the clients were willing to pay meant I would be making less than minimum wage after expenses and my time were accounted for. Residential Real Estate Photography/Video, Weddings, and a few others I have dropped completely unless something really high end comes my way.
I will say though that for the niche I specialize in (events, promo videos/photography, etc.) social media has also opened new doors for me. I do freelance photography/video work for some of the big ad agencies in my area and even at that level their clients are obsessed with social media. They literally host events with social media in mind, and where I come in is they hire me to film them. I filmed more private VIP social media inspired events this year than ever before and to these clients money is no obstacle as long as it produces something that will generate useable social media content.
More big names than ever before are trying to reach new clients on social media and they hire people like me to create their content. They also scour social media to see what their competition is doing and send me their work and ask if I can create something like that for them; it is so odd using 8K capable cameras and thousands of dollars worth of gear to create 30-60s worth of content that will be viewed at 480P in the worst aspect ratio and orientation possible that its almost laughable.
I literally had to rethink the way that I shoot and completely focus on anything that will grab the audience's attention for 2 seconds vs trying to be artistic or create content that truly took planning and was challenging to create because that's what my clients want because that's what their audience wants.
Anyone who hasn't seen the movie Idiocracy should check it out, it feels like that future is already here in many ways.

IMO 10bit and 8bit are identical in perfect lighting conditions. Even when color grading the two, to me they are identical since few people are going to color grade to such an extreme that the difference will matter.
The key words though from my statement above is "perfect lighting conditions". Where 10bit shines (when paired with a good codec) and far outperforms 8bit is when the lighting conditions are not so perfect.
For event work I do not usually have time to get the exposure or white balance perfect. At events people couldn't care less about mixed lighting, or the fact the sun just went behind a cloud while they are posing, or I just came from a brightly lit area to a heavily shaded area, they just want their 5s in front of the camera then on about their day.
What I have found in those scenarios is that 10bit combined with LOG is far more forgiving than 8bit. 8bit falls apart very quickly if you start changing the WB or tint, or bring up the mids or shadows. 8bit likes to start adding color shifts, banding, or highlight rolloff gets harsh and skin tones are the first to suffer; whereas modern 10bit feels almost as pliable as raw footage. 
I used to think 10bit was overkill until I went from the 8bit GH5 to the 10bit S5. The latitude that I had to fix marginal footage was eye opening for me. Also surprising to me, was I then went from 10bit to raw out of the C70 and R5 and raw was not some magical step up to me. Raw seemed only slightly more pliable than 10bit but with massive file sizes; if anything I might even say that raw might be the actual load of b***** strictly from a color grading/exposure fixing standpoint.  Obviously raw comes with other benefits especially with Canon cameras depending on the camera and sensor, but I would say the difference between the raw that I have seen and 10bit seems to be smaller than the difference between 8bit and 10bit when you need to fix a marginal clip.
 
I don't do charts and graphs let alone have time to shoot the exact same scene in both 8bit and 10bit, but I do have over 15yrs of shooting events and working in the fashion industry where they are very picky with their skin tones, and I can tell you from firsthand experience I would never want to go back to 8bit.
One thing I do wonder sometimes is if 10bit 4:2:0 vs 10bit 4:2:2 matters and I questioned that difference a lot as my previous editing workstation could not smoothly edit 4:2:2 out of the Canons since NVIDIA cannot HW accelerate H.265 4:2:2 but these days I don't notice or care anymore after upgrading to a QS capable CPU.

That is about the sum of it unless we are talking movies, series and advertising.
Most businesses seem prepared to have any old shit as long as it’s cheap. Or free. And plenty are happy to work for free because it’s a foot in the door innit?
And I think it’s happening increasingly in wedding video land… Social media is full of folks gushing about any old shit and actually they seem to genuinely love rubbish over anything crafted.
So I’m just counting down the next 6 years and I’m done because I can’t change the situation and am not prepared to dumb down in order to conform.
And I think I can squeeze out another 6 seasons…
And when I say ‘counting down’ and ‘squeeze out’, I don’t mean coast, or not care, but rather keep putting out the highest quality content for the duration of my career both for myself and my clients.
But yes, it’s ‘everything’…quality, prices, attention spans…dumbing down in general.

Some worrying thoughts are occupying my mind at the moment so it might do me some good to let them out for a run... Here goes.
In the 1990s I grew up with the early internet, it wasn't very media rich due to the bandwidth constraints and it only worked well on a big screen with a keyboard at a desk, so it suited web pages and forums. Written stuff, basically. Come the y2k and we began to see the early social media sites like Myspace and then Facebook but you still had to use these at a desk. Which lends itself to being able to type long sentences and create art.
Come smartphones, they couldn't offer the full world wide web experience, on a pokey slow browser, but this changed with apps. So fast forward a bit to the 2010s... There has been a proliferation of apps into our lives, but it wasn't really until Youtube and Facebook Groups got some serious traction that things started to change. I used to be pretty confident in the EOSHD blogging days that if I sat down to write a review, or opinion, or do some proper journalism or get a scoop and break the camera news first it would get some attention and traction, now I am not so sure it will as it is a separate indie .com website outside of social media, and this is very bad news for the internet because we cannot let Meta and Google and a handful of other corporations OWN the entire web.
So to the making a living bit...
For creatives like photographers and filmmakers the internet was a real blessing, it allows you to setup stall with a website and get your work out there. You get noticed and then you get hired, that's how it used to work. There has to be a strong demand from industry for those positions as well, no matter how good you are it doesn't matter if the cinema industry is in a downward spiral.
Cinema and photography have to compete with other forms of content too.
Again it comes back to smartphones. Neither cinema and photography are well suited to a small screen and even smaller attention spans, they are supposed to be viewed on a large canvas and in a socially interactive way like in a gallery or theatre. Now with stuff like streaming, this works fine when everyone has a subscription to one or two of the same platforms like Netflix and are stuck at home with nothing better to do like during covid, but after a while there is a total oversupply of stuff to watch, and a total ADHD mess of an audience who is getting constantly distracted by social media content in direct competition to the long form stuff.
So we have a meltdown at the moment in the filmmaking industry, and even in the commercial videography industry where it is now so easy to shoot something, companies may as well hire an intern to do it or have some staff do it themselves, because the bar is set by social media and that as I said works best with very short authentic bursts of home made content, where production quality or even the camera doesn't really matter.
With photography, if you're an artist trying to compete for attention with all of that stuff you are going to be in trouble if you don't do double-duties as a social media influencer, which of course means making YOURSELF the story and front and centre. Not a lot of artists are all that comfortable with that. I'm not. So the business model now is that your content has to be free, and you merchandise it or earn from advertising and sponsorship due to your social media reach as an artist. And I REALLY hate that because it cheapens what it means to be a photographer or filmmaker.
At the end of the day, the photos and films should be what matter and they should be paid for.
PS
Have you noticed by the way - that the AI bubble has completely lost people's interest, the content is all so un-compelling? Why do you think this is... It's because there is so much of it... And it is disassociated with the artist's own hand... And that is exactly what all this tech has done to use filmmakers and photographers... The accessibility of tech means that there's now too much content, and not enough demand for the next piece.
A big economic correction is on the way.

I think shoulder work with the C80 or C70 will be tough, without an EVF and with the DSLR type form factor as well as the attached screen it's really not ideal nor is it built with ENG uses in mind. Even if you rig it in a way where you can view an external monitor while it is on your shoulder, getting to the controls for even simple things or using the touch screen will be difficult.
With ENG cameras you don't need a frankenrig to make it work on your shoulder.  At the end of the day IMO the C70, C80, and other "cinema cameras" really are meant to live on a tripod or gimbal with occasional handheld work if any at all, and little if any shoulder work. I learned early on that my C70 will probably never leave my tripod again and I will stick to other cameras with IBIS for anything handheld or any gimbal work. 
As far as color grading, it shoots in 6K raw in CLOG2 and has 13+ usable stops of DR.....with that as a starting point you can color grade it to look like anything including the C500. The battery life for my C70 is great, with my V Mount battery and the onboard battery I can shoot continuously for around 8hrs, the C80 is probably similar.
Sturdiness is questionable in the C70, I would assume it's better in the C80.

I think shoulder work with the C80 or C70 will be tough, without an EVF and with the DSLR type form factor as well as the attached screen it's really not ideal nor is it built with ENG uses in mind. Even if you rig it in a way where you can view an external monitor while it is on your shoulder, getting to the controls for even simple things or using the touch screen will be difficult.
With ENG cameras you don't need a frankenrig to make it work on your shoulder.  At the end of the day IMO the C70, C80, and other "cinema cameras" really are meant to live on a tripod or gimbal with occasional handheld work if any at all, and little if any shoulder work. I learned early on that my C70 will probably never leave my tripod again and I will stick to other cameras with IBIS for anything handheld or any gimbal work. 
As far as color grading, it shoots in 6K raw in CLOG2 and has 13+ usable stops of DR.....with that as a starting point you can color grade it to look like anything including the C500. The battery life for my C70 is great, with my V Mount battery and the onboard battery I can shoot continuously for around 8hrs, the C80 is probably similar.
Sturdiness is questionable in the C70, I would assume it's better in the C80.

CineD does a much better job by shooting a mini doc with it, ProAV just makes the camera look bad.
 
For rigging ideas, I would just take a look at some rigging ideas for the C70. 
Below is how I rigged my C70, I know the thread says S5, but my C70 setup is identical. When I create rigging setups I want to be able to swap in any future camera body without having to buy anything new (except the camera cage and a few small parts) and it worked perfectly for me. I only have 7 setups and with those I can shoot anything that I typically shoot and use any camera body.
With my setup I can swap in the R5, R5II, R7, or C70 without buying anything new for everything from handheld to gimbal to tripod long form content.
 

The idea that the R1 is a camera that some people might choose instead of the C80 is not offensive.
However, your continuous bombarding of this thread with test charts and graphs to demand that it's a better choice than the C80, once again despite that you have touched neither camera is not necessary.  If the R1 is noticeably better than the C80 in real-world usage once both cameras have been released, Canon will sell more R1's than they would otherwise.  I'd certainly consider it once it's available on the used market or there's a big sale, just as I am considering the C80 now (but no way I'm paying full price).
Regardless, neither camera is "better" than the other - but one might be a better fit for you.  If it is, that's great.  You should get that camera.  If you plan to buy/use neither camera, then you should stop caring about which one is "better."

Great.  So since we agree that most of the discussion is useless until the cameras are released and in the hands of real users, you can stop the lengthy rants and pasting screenshots from YouTube and reviewer websites and demanding that one camera (that you have never actually touched) is better than another camera (that you have never actually touched).

The green cast does not bother me, and there's no way I am going back to a lens end vND after using a lens mount vND. I get 1.5-9 stops of ND, no X pattern, and the cast is consistent so when I choose to remove it, it takes seconds in post, or a few seconds on set using WB. It also provides another layer of protection for the interior of the camera if I have to switch lenses on set. My point is, casts don't matter in the real world if they are consistent.
 
 
I have yet to see a single thing in all of your charts and graphs that matters in the real world. I also have yet to have a single customer tell me in the real world that they want a discount or reshoot because my camera did not have enough stops of DR. I have been shooting with the R7 for the past 2yrs and it paid for itself many times over.....to this day I still have no idea how many stops of DR it has nor do I care.
If I went by YT BS, and all of these uselsess charts and graphs I would have been lugging around the C70 to every hybrid shoot and brought the R5 for the photography part of it, and likely had less satisfied customers because I would have had a lower photography and video shot count and missed valuable moments throughout the events because I was too busy fiddling with the gear or switching cameras.
If you are not filming the next Hollywood feature length blockbuster these charts mean nothing and if you are then you still aren't looking at these charts and you are just renting trailers worth of equipment packages that will work for your project.

Other than gt3rs' actual real-world experience with the R5 II, this is all nonsense anyway.  It is based entirely on pixel peeping crap from internet reviewers.  I'll stick with "if you love the R1 so very much, you should get in the preorder line and enjoy shooting it when it's released."
Otherwise, beyond some chat about specs, it's really worth waiting for the camera to get into the hands of real users.  Then the truth will be understood.
As for me, I'm going to guess that we'll see a lot more owner-operators and documentary crews running around with C80's and C400's than we will see them using R1's.  The R1 will likely be a niche camera, used primarily by sports photographers.

It looks like Canon released the first FW update for the R5II. Download Link
Firmware Version 1.0.1 incorporates the following fixes:
1. Fixes an issue in which movies captured in RAW/SRAW format may not play back properly on applications due to the attached lens and camera not communicating. (This kind of sounds like what I experienced where AF stopped working)
2. Improves the stability of the touch operation control when the [Touch control] is set to [Sensitive].
3. Fixes an issue in which the camera's LCD display may become abnormal after the camera resumes operations from the [Viewfinder off] state. (I think this is the black/green screen problem)
4. Fixes an issue in which the camera may stop working properly when the shutter button is operated while the BUSY message is being displayed on the screen.
5. Fixes an issue in which Err70 may be displayed when the display mode is switched between the LCD screen and viewfinder while the BUSY message is being displayed on the screen. (I got the busy message a lot, but no Err70)
6. Fixes an issue, in which the camera's LCD display becomes abnormal after using EOS Utility to capture and import movies.
7. Fixes an issue, in which movies captured using EOS Utility may not be played back on the camera.
8. Optimizes the auto white balance for specific environments when the Custom Picture function is set to [On].
I took no chances and sent mine back, I should get the replacement next week and I will update the FW once I get it. Nothing about rapid battery drain, but who knows...maybe one of these fixes fixed that as well.

Number game interpretations. For RAW with no processing you should compare to the max DR possible so it would be 14.9 vs 13.4.

The proof that in 4k Log R5II 13.6 stops of usable DR vs 12, indeed disappointing 😉

And view that you are disappointed can you point hybrid cameras with more than 13.6 stops? I believe only A1 has 0.2 more...

But again, I don't care about the numbers too much as I just open the files from both camera that I own and is definitely visible the better DR.

Pixel peepers are going to pixel peep...and use their pixel peeping to justify their desires and purchases. 
@Kino just get whatever works for you, none of your concerns are my concerns, the R5II is the better fit for me in every way vs the R1. Also, I am as far from a pixel peeper as it gets and even I can tell in the R1 vs R5II screenshots that the R5II is at least 0.5 stops over vs the R1.
And who cares about a magenta shift? All of my footage has a green shift from my vND filter, takes two seconds in post to shift it back, or you can even shift it back in camera with a custom WB tint setting; who knows, the "magenta" shift might even counter my vND's green shift which means it all works out.
Also, I have no idea what highlight rolloff "problem" you are referring to, the R5II when shooting CLOG2 has some of the best highlight rolloff that I have ever seen in a mirrorless camera......but hey, if you need some sort of justification to buy the R1 then have at it. 
I have already shot multiple paying jobs with the R5II and no complaints so I guess my clients are also fine with what the camera can produce.

Pixel peepers are going to pixel peep...and use their pixel peeping to justify their desires and purchases. 
@Kino just get whatever works for you, none of your concerns are my concerns, the R5II is the better fit for me in every way vs the R1. Also, I am as far from a pixel peeper as it gets and even I can tell in the R1 vs R5II screenshots that the R5II is at least 0.5 stops over vs the R1.
And who cares about a magenta shift? All of my footage has a green shift from my vND filter, takes two seconds in post to shift it back, or you can even shift it back in camera with a custom WB tint setting; who knows, the "magenta" shift might even counter my vND's green shift which means it all works out.
Also, I have no idea what highlight rolloff "problem" you are referring to, the R5II when shooting CLOG2 has some of the best highlight rolloff that I have ever seen in a mirrorless camera......but hey, if you need some sort of justification to buy the R1 then have at it. 
I have already shot multiple paying jobs with the R5II and no complaints so I guess my clients are also fine with what the camera can produce.

It sounds like you really like the R1, even to the point of obsessing about micro-differences between images which would be removed during even basic color grading.  Seems like you should get one.

Here is one of the guys that I really trust for reviews, he makes a living every day as a videographer, not a YT reviewer. Funny thing is, he said almost exactly the same things that I said in this thread (C70 is almost too soft, C70 falls apart after 3200ISO, if you already have the C70 it might be all you need, etc.). Honestly, his video makes me want the C80 more than anything I have seen so far (but I'm not upgrading).
I fall squarely into the category where the C70 is more than enough for my needs but the C80 would fix everything I don't like about the C70.
 
 

No IBIS is why I also skipped the R5C, the C70 is great for tripod work, it's nice to have an A cam that I know can run for hours, no overheating, and XLR inputs so that's what I use it for. For gimbal work it is so so if you are a solo shooter; it is right at the edge of what is reasonable for a one-handed gimbal, probably much more manageable with something like the Helix Jr.
That sounds like a seriously expensive switch, those RF lenses that you listed are pretty much some of the most expensive that you can buy for those ranges.
I am happy the C80 has no IBIS; without it the C70 still does everything that I need and more so Canon won't get any more of my money this year (hopefully).

Definitely a better representation of the C80 vs CVP's sample footage.  The white hot sunlight on the floor does a good job showcasing the DR and highlight rolloff.  The Lotus Helix Jr gimbal did a good job stabilizing it and showcasing how small of a setup that you can use to combine a gimbal with the C80. 
I would be curious to see how the C70 would perform in the same venue.

To me it still seems pretty noisy around 4000ISO, a second native ISO at 4000 would be nice, I have never filmed somewhere where 12,800 is necessary, but definitely 4000ISO is pretty common and to me it gets noisy. When I can crush the blacks in that scenario it is fine, but when I need 4000ISO just to properly expose skin tones then it is definitely noisier than say the R5II at 4000ISO.
I know it's been stated that it is soft by design, but it is the softest camera that I have ever owned; softer than the C200, S5, R5, R7, etc.  I have gotten used to sharpening in post, but it's still a little disconcerting to almost look out of focus prior to post processing. 
All I can tell you is that identical lenses pointed at the same source and the R7 is a stop under exposed vs the R5 every time. To expose them the same I have to do something (ISO, Aperture, Shutter speed) to the R7 to match the exposure of the R5. The C70 with the speedbooster beside the R7 has the same problem.
 
All this video did was make me appreciate the C70 even more and made it apparent that the C400 does not have IBIS. The handheld footage was hard to watch. I did like how sharp it was straight out of camera (assuming they did not add sharpness), but it is definitely not a run and gun camera without a gimbal or tripod.
I know...cinema cameras don't need IBIS, but I think if it had it, and they had a way of locking it in place when you did not want it enabled, that would make it a truly killer run and gun cinema camera. It's small size already makes it a good fit for gimbals, but no IBIS makes it a hard sell for handholding. Maybe the digital IS works better than most prior digital IS, but I doubt it.
The image quality, other than sharpness, did not really look any better to me than the C70 with its DGO sensor. I think today, if you did not already own the C70, the C400 might be the way to go, but I don't think buying it to replace the C70 makes sense considering how good the C70 is.

It is so funny pixel peeping vs real world, I could care less about charts and graphs, I'm delivering footage to my clients not a chart so I would also take the C80 or C400 any day vs the R1 for long form or controlled set content. There is no way I would want a frankenrigged R1 vs the C80 or C400.  For that matter, IMO the R5II has put the R1 and R3 back in their rightful places as sports cameras and taken over as the new hybrid video king.
I also think the C80 is plenty good enough for most people's needs, also, the sharpness difference is so negligible that a little post sharpening would make the two look identical.
 
 

I recommend looking into the American DJ brand. When I researched years ago ADJ kept coming up as a high quality brand, I ended up getting one of their machines and its now about 10yrs later and it still works like the day I got it.
Size wise, I recommend getting a decent size, you can always turn it down or use less dense fog liquid, but if you ever need to use it in a place that has a draft or one day want to use it outdoors you will appreciate the additional capacity. I have used mine for studio work, music videos, and other projects. 

Yes I saw that as well. CPS told me its a HW issue and I need to send in the camera....I'll wait until the FW update to see if things improve. 
It's insane to me that issues this major and this common made it through to even v1.0 of the FW.