Geoff_L

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

What with the personal shots dude?

Go look at the link I posted from Ebay and the Z6 - Z7 are holding there value.  No other way to interrupt that fact. 

Your story about a guy that sold his when he was desperate and behind the dumpster mean nothing. 

You already exaggerated the "half the original value" so you're an exaggerator of the truth. 

You're comments and exaggerations about Nikon and the price drop and everything else does come off as the sky is falling because you keep on and keep apologizing for exaggerating but continue to say the price has dropped further then it actually has. 

Here's a clue. Don't respond to my comments if you don't want a response. You're like the girl in the relationship that want to get the last word in. Give it a rest.

 

 

Personal ? Man, you started accusing me of seeing the sky falling etc. when I was just pointing facts.
You say sh*t and I try to answer logically... This post was readable since the beginning : you can even browse back to my several joyful messages of hands-on and first experiences. But you don't care, your blindness only see that I dared to point 1 or 2 minor facts that, in your view, equals to attack your sort of worshiped god camera. Go check them, I got quite some likes by others because I gave my really positive feelings concerning this camera. The rest is in your awful way of translating everybody's post. And then, you came out of nowhere, attacking everybody that dared to argue something and question the camera.

Yes, I used an hyperbola and exaggerating concerning the prices, as you probably do in the everyday life, like, when you can't lift something : "oh, it must weighs a ton"... Then I've provided you some links, that you ignore and give me back links on ebay.com to illustrate that ; while explaining that it is just annoying me for my selling... I never pulled a conclusion out of that, saying the sky is collapsing, as you are implying.  I live in France, and buy locally. WTF you want me to do with ebay in the USA ? Even with ebay.fr, which can be tough to deal with, when you can use established forum and selling platforms that are used by quite a lot of persons on a daily basis (27 000 000 ads for the second link, right now), like the ones I provided you links.

So, I response to you absolutely illogical and disturbing non stop writings. Don't bring the stupid last word argument. Go browse back and check every time you've attacked everybody, defending for whatever ill reasons a camera nobody destroyed.

Put that in head : I like Nikon, always had, even if it went through shit situations (D600, D750, D800...). I loved my Z6 too. Have to sell it. Prices are falling here quite quickly with evidences. There is nothing bad in that, just annoyances for sellers. The rest, you pull it out of your imagination. Plus, I provided some sort of hands-on mini reviews, with extra positive feeling. Where are yours ? Can you do that, or can you only defend it by attacking Sony, Canon and Panasonic ?

Let the post start again, for people that want to learn stuff about this camera. We need users, not a ready to jump paladin.

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I can't and we can't translate those prices and again the sky is falling and you keep apologizing and then posting the same sorrow. I'm sorry you have to sale your gear but you've jumped into the "I hate Nikon" group for the odd reason that you can't sell your gear. Selling used gear is not for everyone and I actually bought my Z6 used with 50 f1.8 for 2K two months ago. The seller needed the money and made me a great offer.

Either you are mentally ill and your paranoïa is altering your judgment and brain functions, or your love affair/carnal passion with the z6 distort your capacity to process information and makes you attacking even the person who said they love too your "precious" half...

I answered you with facts. Period. And, again, it is not because I point reality with facts, with links, and I open your eyes concerning nikon recents failures, that I am a Nikon hater. You behavior is seriously disturbing.

So, you won't read, again, but it will be my last try, after that... it will be like arguing with a flat earther or chemtrails believer :

- I loved my z6, better than my D90, D600/610, D7200 and 750.

- For stills, I prefer Nikon than Canon or Fuji that I tried

- Prices of z6 are quickly falling : you asked me links, I gave it to you (and you ignore it cause it does not serve you false version of reality)

- I just point that cause I have to sell mine with regrets, and it is annoying. Where in that I show a sign of feeling the sky is falling ?

- You will answer for the 526th time : "but Sony and panasonic blablabla"

- Earth is sadly not flat

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Post link to these great "like new" sales on the Z series.  What's the price of the GH5 right now or EOS-R? You basically are saying the same-thing that you said sorry for.

At first I thought  "Oh please, someone help me...". Then, I was laughing. Seriously, this is my last answer to you.

Here are two links. Sorry, I won't browse every selling places. I'm a also in 2 facebook Nikon selling group. What I said is what I see on a daily basis on many selling places, as I'm trying to sell mine since 2 weeks.

The first one is on a famous French forum : https://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/AchatsVentes/Photo-Audio-Video/nikon-nissin-di700a-sujet_721010_1.htm

Z6 + 24-70S + XQD 64gb + a second original battery, bought on the 5th of January. The guy sold it 2070€ two weeks ago  (in its ad, he initially proposed 2150€ with a flash NISSIN DI700A). The body is in perfect condition with only 789 clicks. You can google translate it. Yes, the FTZ is not present, but as it now sells almost for free in kit...

On amazon.fr, the Z6 + FTZ was, some days ago, less expensive (slightly) than the Z6 BODY ONLY. Now, there is only a 50€ difference between both (in favor of the body only).

Another one : https://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/1614925861.htm/

Z6 + 24-70 + XQD 64gb. Never opened. 2000€

Do I ask you why you, again, bring on the table both the GH5 and the EOS-R ? No, I won't, have enough lost my time.

Enjoy your Z6 but, do yourself a favor : take gear and brand less seriously...

20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The Z6 certainly has not dropped over half in price on eBay, otherwise I'd be considering buying a Z6 myself now! 

Yes, sorry, I was bit exaggerating with "half".

But here are some numbers (roughly) : the brand new kit z6 + ftz + 24-70 was somewhere between 2800/3000€ , depending on the shop, at the beginning of December. 5 months later, you can find it used, in "like new" condition, for below 2000€ (but mostly around 2000/2100€). Plus, there is right now rebates that pull down those prices. I find it to be quite a quick fall.
If I remember well, Andrew wrote in an article that he got troubles selling its Z7, even by cutting a lot the price.

Anyway, it is really good for buyers ? !

13 minutes ago, sanveer said:

And accusing Huawei of espionage is hilarious. Google and Facebook and all major silicon valley companies are spying on you 24x7. They probably know more about you than you would. 

I was thinking the same... Not talking about Microsoft hegemony over the pc world ahah.

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

Huawei puts backdoors in their phones. It's a poor choice to trust such a device with any valuable account information. I won't miss them. And frankly I'm glad to see that the government took action to protect consumers and security.

Just my feelings and opinion, but:  given all the tentacular monster companies from the US that live on "spying", collecting data, selling them etc. (not talking about that :  https://www.expressvpn.com/blog/8-ways-the-nsa-spies-on-you/ plus, should we talk about Snowden ? ) and all the disastrous implications for the future... seeing all this mess as a government action to protect consumers and security, is, to me , as surprising as buying trump's idea that by massively arming people it would prevent mass murdering...

3 hours ago, Skip77 said:

When have I ever mentioned buyers remorse ? Geoff_L is the one freaking out.  

You should try to understand more what people write, and wait a minute or two before answering. Or maybe I was not clear. But, anyway...
Look, allow me to auto quote myself :

17 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

Yes I agree. Truly a great camera, and I maintain all the good and long things I wrote about it some months ago. I'm just sad and annoyed to have to get rid of it because of $$ reasons... 

I loved the camera, period. I have just reacted to the link talking about the potential issue (what Nikon and you name "service advisory").
The fact that you don't know about the d600 disaster tells a lot about your lack of knowledge concerning Nikon recent history tinted of fails (and greatness like the D850)

If you had possessed a born dead D600, a  3 times recalled (yes you read it : 3 f*cking recalls !!!!!) D750, you would understand. So, I do not freak out, it's just a natural reaction to Nikon's poor launching of cameras.

Plus, as I wrote above, I checked on Nikon's website and my unit is not concerns. There is a website for us customers, in order to check if you have to send your potential defective camera. So I used it, and it is OK for me, period. Then, because I know Nikon and am equipped with their cameras since a long time, I just question if this kind of "service advisory" could impact sales and resale value.

I would keep it if I could. But I am an amateur, and having car troubles , I face difficulties to transport myself to my joyful 9to5. As I wouldn't want to handicap myself in the rat-race (irony of course), I have to sell something to help to pay the cost.

Anyway, enjoy your z6 (and don't forget to check for service advisory ? ) !

18 minutes ago, Mars said:

Well, regardless of what the general opinion on the internet is - I'm quite satisfied with my Z6 and the new firmware is cool too. Yes, since I've got mine already in Nov and so it's rather an early one, I need to send it in. But at least Nikon is doing something, they seem to have learnt from the D600 desaster. Regarding the current eBay value, I wouldn't care too much about it. Unless you're not interested in the camera any more.

I for my part am still using my two NX1s as well, so can easily bridge the time until I get the Z6 back. In particular its viewfinder is much better than the older NX1 plus the new 14-30/4 is really great. Just my 2c.

Yes I agree. Truly a great camera, and I maintain all the good and long things I wrote about it some months ago. I'm just sad and annoyed to have to get rid of it because of $$ reasons...

The 24-70 f4 alone is a sufficient reason to jump on the ship. Well, being soon camera less, I will have lots of great choices when I will have enough money again to find a new camera.

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Do some research on the service - advisory before making post abut it. If you think the sky is falling then I can't help ya. 

Sony cameras overheat all day long and no recall or service advisory fix. 

The Sony A7III has the same VR jitters as the Z series if you have IBIS and VR n at the same-time, but Sony does nothing about it. 

Why are you so harsh with everybody questionning Nikon here ? Seriously,  do something... some weeks ago, you were liking my post and we were both "defending" the z6 by arguing with others here.

Why are you always answering like we had insulted your family ?!

And why bringing on Sony ? Man, your 2 sides vision of the camera world "good nikon / bad sony" and your constant attacks are really disturbing.. go treat yourself seriously.

For the record, I had Nikon D90, D600/D610,D5200, D7200, and Z6.

You wanna compare ? Oh, and I can add my girlfriend's D750 and apsc bodies...

Wanna talk about the d600 plague ? Nah ? Because mine got concerned. Wanna talk about D750 ? Nah ? Our got recall 2 times. It may be one of the most recalled camera I think, and for really bad reason... Wanna talk about the D800 ?

Stop acting like Nikon were totally white, perfect and opposed as everything else.

I can sell you my D600 if you want. Perfect for a filmic look with lots of BIG grains everywhere ! And cost less than a point and shoot now. Or take my Z6 ? It is alsmot brand new and has lost 50% of its value.

Just stick to the fact, it will maybe elevate you a little.

Go browse this post to read my extremly positive feeling and hands on the Z6. Because this is still true and relevant. And it will help you understand that I am not the dark force of Sony... crap, it may even be the second time I write "Sony" on this forum... why the hell did you bring that ?

Aaah your behavior is as annoying and painful to bear as the last season of Games of Thrones.  YIKES.

1 hour ago, Mako Sports said:

Big yikes, product Recall for Z6/Z7 users - https://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/service-advisories/technical-service-advisory-for-users-of-the-nikon-z-6-and-z-7-cameras.html?fbclid=IwAR167M4cbifFrV8L4xQaadtPAWLmscxrjSDEtakfd5nh7CdN6bTVZuBovuo 

I'm currently trying to sell my Z6 for financial reasons. The 24-70 f4S sold in 2days, but the Z6 + FTZ is impossible to sell : large amount of bodies already on the used market, and for really low prices. I just checked and my unit is fortunately not concerns by the recall but, seriously, it will make the resell harder... D600-gate may still be in the memories ? My last time Nikon, really...

1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

Maybe the conversation has moved on, but this made me laugh:

"Thousands of Angry Game of Thrones Fans Call on HBO to Remake Season 8"

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/game-of-thrones-season-8-remake-petition-hbo 

ahaha this petition is more epic than the new season itself !

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers

Almost 600 000 signatures.... when cnn shared it 7h ago, it was at 300 000...
I  read that the showrunners will write the next start wars. I hope they will have some books to follow ?

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

The issue I have with Expanse is that it is not realistic about how life in space would be. It depicts a vast underclass of exploited low class ignorant people as being the population of these off Earth settlements when in reality these sorts of communities would be the exact opposite because of the level of technology needed to survive. Colonies on other planets are not going to be populated by a bunch of homeless people, it is ridiculous. It is far more likely that the reverse would happen, off world settlements would be elites while what was left over will remain on earth (precisely because they are largely useless).

But The Expanse not only depicts "a vast underclass of exploited low class ignorant people". It also talks about Mars, a highly technologically advanced civilization, that once dreamed of transforming Mars into a Earthy like place. We can also see research stations etc. We even see what you describe, or sort of, with the biggest ship ever made, built to send people colonize distant unknown worlds. ; this one was not built to be loaded with "useless" people .

"Belters" or colonies as you describe, are, as I see it, only workforce. They live a shit life at the end of the solar system in order to exploit the resources for the others. I don't see them a "settlement", in the way, as you said, the elites could make. I'm not sure that in reality, the elites would hasten to leave a life on Earth to live in mostly "hard to imagine life" places as we can see in the serie.

I'll soon start the books, and I can't wait to see how the show differs from it !

SPOILER :                  Samwell Tarly killed more people than the Golden Company.

They really lost me when they started to write by themselves without following the book anymore. I felt it like a cards castle collapse : everything was rushed, unlikely, too easy. I couldn't enjoy the episodes anymore, as I was constantly obsess by the non-stop mess. Season 7 was, to me, really painful to watch, given all the things that had been built since episode 1 some years ago.
But these season is really really worse. 8 seasons that are supposed to lead to next Sunday episode that, given what we've got since 5 weeks, should be utterly disappointing.

Can't wait to pass to something else, like the next season of Dark (awesome German serie) or The Expanse...

... and still wait for the next book of George RR ?
 

Fallacious arguments and bias party !

Someone here appropriated too much Schopenhauer's  "Art of being right"...


Mixing up facts and opinions, putting forward the "free thinking" and "independent thought" argument, bringing on the "fear" and political correctness that one bravely overcomes to tell the truth, and wish more "sheeps" could access this level of "awareness"...

Congrats. Flat earthers and trendy conspiracy theorists use exactly the same mechanism...

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I am not trolling shit.

Oh, sure you are not...

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

 If you are going to try and make a living with any of the newer Mirrorless cameras the Nikon Z6 would be on the bottom of the pile. It is the worse on all of them for features you need to get the job done. And I would argue it also has the worse CS. Sure the 4K crop on the EOS-R is the pits, but it has great AF, CS, and everything in camera you need tool wise. Someone always has to be last and the Nikon is it simple as that. There isn't a person on here but, you know who, is going to use the Z6 over the GH5 if you have an important, only one chance in hell to do it, video shoot. Will it get better, sure it will, but as of now it is not repeatable reliable. Is it a crappy camera, heck no, but it is still last.

Your non-stop peremptorily assertions and fallacious arguments is not "trolling" ; this is "Jonpaiing" in cow-boy style. I understand why you are constantly fighting with a lot of other members.

Seriously, you've made this thread awful to read. I'm out.

I'd like to share one or two clips, but I'm reluctant as I'm still learning how to properly use resolve and grade. I'm still working on my skills and, once I will be comfortable, I'll post here  flat/before  and an after clips. But what I can say is  that the flat footage is quite neutral, and with only minor tweaks like curves, saturation etc. I really find the image to sing. And that's come from someone who likes what he sees from Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD...

I've always preferred Nikon for stills (over Canon), and I find all the attributes that make me like Nikon imagery in the Z6 video files. I've also owned Fuji for years, but, for my tastes, I personally prefer more my stills output with the Z6, than with my XT1, XE2 and XT2. I'm mostly a landscape/documentary photographer for what it worth.

Once again, you can read on forums, for example,  that Panasonic colors are not at Canon's level, and a people complain about that. But, I often watch beautiful GH5 stuffs that literally destroy a large part of the things I watch on Canon...  Coming back to the Z6, I maintain what I think concerning the ratio of filmmakers/amateur-first-time-videographer in the available videos at the moment. Yesterday, I was searching for fresh Z6 footage on youtube, and I mostly came across strange framerate videos, awful grading, copy/paste styles or luts that are not adapted etc. applied to lots of Z6 clips.  It really do not praise in favor of the quality of the camera. I do hope that the next firmware will bring more experienced persons to use the camera, and give us a larger amount of great videos to watch.

Just a question :  prores raw is, at the moment, not editable on PC. Do you guys think that it may be possible one day ? I'm eager to try prores raw recording with the Z6, but not ready to ditch all my computer gear to switch to apple (no money for that). Thank you !

9 hours ago, Django said:

I’m with webrunner5, every Z footage I’ve seen has this grim crushed black oversharp look. I thought it was because of lack of internal Log or maybe even lack of exposure meters but that ProRes RAW footage looks the same. 

Surely the camera is capable of a nice organic IQ in the right hands but I still haven’t seen it..

If I'm not wrong, this is literally the first real world raw video (and graded) that we see. Maybe give a little time until experienced filmmakers try it when it will be widely available.

I share the Castorp's view : Nikon is not widely represented in the video world, so you do not come across the same amount of great footages provided by videographers and filmmakers, as with Sony, Canon etc. Most videos I see are graded in a way that departs a lot from what you got straight out of the camera with the flat profile. Maybe people like Matti do apply their Canon or Sony sauce to the Nikon footage...

None of the attributes you both see in the videos you came across are represented in the flat profile footages I've shot since November...

And no need to argue "You must be the only one than can grade I guess.", cause I grade like sh*t and am still learning ?

Seriously, when I think of all the videos I watch from gh5, bmpcc4k, a7iii... I can see a lot of identic awful stuff that all try to mimic the same style, or use the same lut. I can not conclude that the characteristics of those cameras are responsible for these styles, because I have a lot of other great stuffs to compare with... It unfortunately is not the case with the z6.

But I have personaly found some really good looking stuff that give me hope !

I use with my Z6 an adapted 50mm 1.8G  via FTZ, along with the new 24-70 f4, and I found the stabilization quite good with the 50, when compared with the 24-70. I have yet to further test it, but I think that 3 axis is better than 0. Also, given the rather new Nikon's propensity to give more features through firmware updates, we can hope for future enhancements. I'm also curious to see how it will work with the adapters from Kipon and Techart, as I have got an eye on Canon long lenses (like the 200f2.8 and 400 f5.6).

13 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The other one though is the TechART E adapter so that you can use their TechART Pro adapter to get AF and IS for all of that legacy MF glass in pretty much every mount worth talking about. Not to mention it also meaning you being able to then use the Sigma MC11 on it to bring EF lenses into the equation.

That is a huge win as far as I'm concerned.

What are those MF glasses you are thinking about ? Since the last time we talk in the lenses forum post, I have expanded my "interesting lenses to buy" list somewhere near the infinity ?. I did not buy any lens given all the new opportunities appearing with the soon to be released adapters.  So, why not add 1 or 2 more items on that list ahah !

As I am learning Resolve, here is a still grab. It is just a test, nothing serious, after having tweaked the wheels to check how the flat profile responses. Shot with the 24-70s, handheld with the help of high winds ?

Oh, btw, exiting news these days : a speedmaster 50 f0.95 for z mount is coming, as well as new samyang lenses and techart adapters (Sony to Z, and canon to Z) are soon to be announced.

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

That's exactly my experience that I reported above. I did it more or less by trial and error. I just switched the thing to sport mode and saw no more wobble and forgot about it until I came back to this thread.

Aaaah sorry, I have read you comment too quickly ! I have yet to try the 24-70 with ibis in sport mode, but so far it is working better with the 50 1.8G. Good news, as I do not see any difference except from less wobbles and jitters.

On 2/1/2019 at 6:55 PM, ivanku said:

Yep, exactly - a pronounced distortion at the corners with little effect on the center. I did some handheld video on a job yesterday with the 50mm 1.8 and I didn’t see any wobble. So the IBIS is useful, but limited. What was the issue on Fuji’s? The xt2 never had ibis, correct? So was it an effect that was visible without any mechanical stabilization?

 

there might be software that Nikon is running with ibis that we don’t know about. So just because we’ve got Distortion correction disabled, doesn’t mean there’s no computing happening we don’t know about. It may be purely mechanical, or it may be something that Nikon can change in the firmware 

Yes, correct, no ibis on the xt2, but I relied on the 18-55 OIS to add a bit of stab. From what I remember, the distortion auto-correction was incriminated in a lot of forum speculations. But, as you wrote, it may be something running in the background.
Concerning the z6, I have just read on dvxuser a guy who seems to get rid of the wobbling by setting IBIS to "sport". I'm gonna test this today with the 24-70. I'm testing right now with the 50 1.8g adapted via ftz, and it seems to be less jittery/jumpy, but I will confirm that later buy reviewing on my computer.

@androidlad Do you have an idea why a potential issue would only appear at certain ISOs (I ask because of your technical knowledge I'm always amazed with ! )

 

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

Glass, grading and lighting etc... do not affect motion cadence. And since we are speaking of motion picture or movie recording the "motion" part is pretty important. 

If you are going for the video look/sterile digital look,  there are a myriad of options. It really comes down to the look you prefer. Neither is "right", it's a personal choice. 

It must be my limited English skills, but why use "sterile digital look", thus giving a pejorative tint ?! I have always enjoyed your tests, but since you circled back to canon, I feel you are quite negative toward other stuff, including stuff you have tested and liked recently. If I recall, each of those cameras you have tested the last months (quite a lot !) , received a high "score" in your posts : gh5s, xt3, z6... Of course, you compare them to your C200, but every time, when the cameras were in your hands since several days, you were nothing but positively surprise by the quality. I might be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprise if in the next months, you try a panasonic S1, a future A7siii, a Xh2, and jump from one camera to another, the newest erasing the qualities you have found in the previous. I don't want to critic, or sound like and ass, but it's my feeling, reading you on a lot of posts.

Concerning the cinematic aspect of the imagery, and the Canon special sauce attached to it, seriously, the only camera that match this so called magic, to me, is the 1DC (5d iii ML raw excluded !). But my tastes and my eyes must be crap ; I'm open to that conclusion ! The image out of a 1Dxii is seriously good, with a "je ne sais quoi" (yeah, the only words I can write without making a mistake ? ), that you may called organic, but not close to the 1DC. In fact, we can argue that Canon got a special mojo, given by the motion cadence or whatever technical stuff, but I've seen a massive amount of shitty video shot with Canon, 5div, 1dxii etc. I have also watch beautiful cinematic footages shot on a GH5, which seems, for some persons, to be the opposite of Canon in  cinematic, organic etc. terms.

I'm a newbie in video, but not in photo, and I can say that we ear the same from old photo snobs, that describe the Canon mojo as the pinnacle of image quality, thus throwing away everything else. Too bad, nowadays, the majority of photos and videos are ruined by presets sold buy the instagram influencers and luts by youtube stars, so, whatever magic those cameras got, it will be crushed ?  

Did you try the flicker reduction option, just to compare ?

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

I just don't understand what people expect anymore. The size and weight of a z6 and a Ninja 5 is smaller that using one of those entry level dslr and a small flash. That is less than the average Japanase/chinese tourist with his small Nikon/canon camera walking around taking photos in some random tourist location. The C200 is much bigger and not full frame, to have a full frame video camera with 10 bit just 5 month ago was the Canon C300 a much bigger shoulder only camera and now you have to add a codex recorder to put RAW. The fact is that your type of (small, unassuming, versatile, total lightweight package, easy to mount on gimbal, etc) does not need more than 8 bit shooting, 10 bit and even prores is an overkill to shoot those low level production.

Just six month ago, absolutely no one was expecting any manufacturer (I even include the likes of blackmagic)was going to release a full frame camera with RAW. In fact everyone was begging for 10 bit for at least the last 2-5 years. Just for a measure, this is the Nikon d3200, the smallest Nikon dslr compared to the z6-z7. In pure volume the Z6 is smaller (much thinner) and I advise anyone to look at the Nikon D3000 series camera in a showroom or people using it. This thing is tiny to the point of being uncomfortable if you have average man hand.

Thanks for these wise words ! All I can say is that I'm really satisfied with my z6, as it is, although conscious and irritared by some quirks (like every camera eh ?). At first, I wanted to later buy a bmpcc4k, or even a 5d iii + ml for the raw capabilitie and more cinematic/narrative stuff. If adding a ninja v with the future firmware update will bring me close or not too far from to the 2 aforementioned cameras, in terms of imagery, I'll be more than happy. In that case, the ninja v would only be added for specific shots, more planned, with more stuff around, thus the "bulk" generated being completely invisible.

29 minutes ago, mat33 said:

I think offering full frame (no crop) 12 bit raw video on a US$2000 hybrid body pretty much meets the definition of going into complete and total overdrive.

Agree, exatly my thoughts. They give us that, while everybody express, one more time, its disappointment concerning canon newest release...

Announcing a lot of lenses and disappointed cameras may appears relevant for some... But for me, the firmware updates announced by Nikon, the existing Nikkor lenses lineup, the coming adapted possibilites (the sony to Z, canon ef to z, leica etc.) plus the new S lenses are more than what I need, thus highly relevant !