Geoff_L

1 hour ago, ivanku said:

I agree that the weird IBIS artifacts almost disappear at 50mm, but it’s not distortion correction that’s causing this. I tested a couple of manual focus wide angle lenses with corrections turned off, and saw the same wobbles. 

Ah, that's interesting thanks ! I was sure about the distortion correction, because it was supposed to be the case on the Fuji XT2, and the Z6 wobbles is extremely similar. But your tests point to the ibis, I guess. To be sure we talk about the same phenomena : by wobbles, we talk about a sort of distortion, like a shift in the corners, not just "shaking" ? On my Fuji, it sometimes appeared on the entire frame, while with the Z6, it seems to only concern the corners.

So, again, fingers crossed for the FW update ?

On 1/30/2019 at 7:15 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

IBIS seems limiting though with the odd effects it can bring.

So far, it has only annoyed me at wide angle (at 24mm with the new 24-70 f4), as I explained earlier. It is the same behavior as with my XT2 + 18-55 ois and 50-140, and seems to be linked to the distortion auto-correction. I've posted a link to the dvxuser forum where someone found the same conclusions. I easily get rid of it with DV Resolve, by using a minimal amount of stabilization (and a tiny crop most of the time). It really works well.

With my adapted 50mm 1.8G, it does not appear, which points to a messy distortion auto-correction.

At around 70mm, it is quite jittery, when I can't manage to remain steady (for example, when it was really cold with a lot of wind and snow). Again, 30s into Resolve and it rocks (at least, I'm satisfied with it). Otherwise, for static shots with steady hands, it is incredible. Quite similar, if not better, than what I managed to obtain with the Fuji 50-140.

10 hours ago, hansel said:

Exactly, that’s what I meant with “reality just not quite there yet.”

Yes, there are a lot of small annoyances, and photographylife has summarized them (I agree with almost the entire list !) but none of them have really prevented me from shooting accordingly to my will. I too hope for the firmware update to improve things.

I will soon buy a telephoto for distant landscape and wildlife, so I'll let you know how the ibis work !

18 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

I dont understand these comments about the X-T3 feeling like it could fall apart. Ive owned tons of Fuji’s as well as Panasonics, Sonys and Nikons, ove never felt the Fuji were somehow cheaply made. I think this is just becoming troll central.

Ah, must be quite convenient to see the things you do not understand as "troll" !

I have owned a GH4, Fujis XE2, XT1, XT2 XT3 (briefly), and various dslr from Nikon and Canon. I maintain my feeling concerning the XT3, especially compared to the rest. I'm OK if you see that as trolling, but it won't affect the reality that me and others have encountered. Plus, everybody agrees this little guy is a beast.... just some concerns about build quality, nothing else.

The stills side also need to be taken in account for hybrid shooters. Already got a z6 and wanted to later add a Bmpcc4k, I'm gonna wait to see what is coming from Nikon as firmware additions !

25 minutes ago, Castorp said:

I don’t think it’s about releasing an “unfinished” product. It’s because our minds are stuck in pre-computerised concepts. Nobody would accuse Apple or Microsoft of unreleasing unfinished products just because they update the OS now and then. And it’s not only about fixing bugs. If you have a software system which you can improve, why wouldn’t you? I’d go so far to say there should be some regulation so that any product can be pushed as far as possible in firmware before releasing subsequent products. It’s horribly wasteful to do otherwise.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought when I wrote "I'm not saying it is deliberate, but more a kind of opportunity to make the camera live a long and evolving life !". My rather limited English bridle my capacity to express what I think ? I too need to update my software !!

37 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If they can do RAW in camera I wonder why they can't do internal 10bit. 

Maybe, after all, they've decided to fully copy fuji concerning firmware updates policy ! On XT2 and Xpro2, we've seen a lot of big improvements (4k addition on xpro2 if I recall, F-log + 120fps on Xt2...). So, you launch a product, not fully developed at its highest capacity, and you make it become better and better with updates (I'm not saying it is deliberate, but more a kind of opportunity to make the camera live a long and evolving life !). Given the atomos claims in the above videos, and the Nikon decision to play the updates game, a lot of good stuff could happen (at least, I hope for that ? )

8 hours ago, DBounce said:

@Geoff_L I had the view assist on when I made that video. Maybe the issue goes away in ProRes Raw... that would be nice.

OK thanks for the answer ! Fingers crossed for the firmware update.

Hey @DBounce, I've just came across a dpreview forum thread talking about your video, and someone suggests this :

Quote

Turning on the 'View Assist' HDMI option applies Nikon's built-in LUT to the previewed N-Log footage in LV, which may fix the AF issue if it indeed is caused by the lower contrast of the LV video feed that's also used by the AF system.

Described in this video (0:53):

Any idea if it is relevant ?

38 minutes ago, Django said:

This is big news but i think it's worth mentioning that ProRes RAW currently only opens in FCPX. If you are on Adobe, Resolve or PC it's going to be a no go (AFAIK).

 

Ah, not cool... Is there a way to transcode ProRes Raw to a Resolve compatible codec without too much loss ? Just out of curiosity, I know it may be a hassle to dive into this process...

Dave, maybe you can investigate about Nikon fresh news concerning firmware updates and Prores Raw video output with Atomos ninja v ?

Oh wow, unbelievable ! I was so happy about the Z6, but still uncertain about a possible firmware to fix some meh stuffs.... but this... shocked ahah ! 

35 minutes ago, BaZa said:

I like it but I'm struggling with it. I really need to understand how this AF-F and AF modes works. In video mode touch screen works but If I click AF-on doesn't do anything, only in AF-S Single. And dunno why, peaking isn't showing. In "i" menu I added peaking, but can't see anything...

I already read it, that Lightroom is reading the NEF files as it was a JPEG. It's very nice because you can see the right colors straight.

For video profiles, do you guys use Auto, Regular or Flat? I've lowered the sharpening in all 3 profiles, but I'm still wondering the best video options ...

I'm too still learning the AF on the Z6 ! In video mode, when I'm not manually focusing, I mostly rely on "all time af" (or something like that, I do not have the camera in hands right now), wide area, and I either move the camera so the focus is smoothly operated on the wide area I've selected, or move the af area with the joystick, to pull the focus smoothly wherever I want on the frame. I rarely use AFC or face detect.

For stills, I'm transitioning to capture one pro, as I can't stand Lightroom anymore ?

As for video profiles, I use the flat one, with the sharpening just lowered a tad, and i find it sufficient for my needs. I'm learning Resolve 15 and color grading, and the profile is surprisingly great, just like everybody talked about the flat profile back in the D750 days. If the footage is correctly exposed, you have a good latitude to work with. You can make the image sing with just some small adjustments. I may try 10 bit log in the future or, why not, by a bmpcc4k if I want to grade a lot.

What lenses are you using with it ? Sorry, I've just read about your 24-70 kit !

45 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

So I just got my second X-T3 after having sold my first to get a Z6, but then got struck by remorse and rebought the Fuji. 

After getting used to the Z6 and being able to compair them side by side some things are worth taking into consideration if you’re looking to buy one of these cameras (sensor size notwithstanding).

1. The build quality of the Nikon is second to none. The X-T3 feels flimsy and wonky next to it, and my copy has a slightly misaligned lcd. The previous one had a slightly misaligned grip cover. Feels cheap and not very confidence inspiring. And the lcd on my current copy is almost impossible to clean from fingerprints whereas the Nikon lcd wipes off super easily. Very strange. But I don’t think this is due to the assembly in China, the Japan made Fuji cameras I have owned have never felt well built with various bugs to complement them.

2. Easy of use. The Nikon switches very smoothly between stills and video with separate settings stored in each mode respectively etc. The Fuji is a mess.

3. Heat management. When shooting 4K 400mbps all-i (h264 or h265), the Fuji gets very hot very quickly. Has anyone tried to record a longer interview or concert with the X-T3, internally? I imagine it will overheat around the 45min mark.

The Nikon never gets more than slightly warm.

4. Autofocus. This is where the Fuji shows it’s a more mature mirrorless system with a smaller sensor: with the newer lenses it’s faster, more accurate and more reliable than the Nikon, both in video and stills. In low light it’s autofocus obliterates the Z6 in all modes.

5. Auto white balance. The Nikon is amazing and never manages to get it really wrong, even in difficult mixed lighting. The Fuji is fine in daylight. But I absolutely love the fact that you can lock the auto white balance on the Fuji, such a handy feature in a pinch.

6. Video quality. The X-T3 is by far a more capable video camera with outstanding codecs with less artefacts. The rolling shutter performance is noticeably better and the Eterna profile with DR400 looks stunning out of the camera with a beautiful highlight roll off compared to the Nikon. The colors of the Nikon is very appealing though, it feels less instagramish than the x-t3.

7. Sexiness. Despite all its shortcomings and frustrations the Fuji is more fun to use, I feel. As Andrew noted, the Z6 and Z7 are very utilitarian and a tad too big for my liking. Very subjective matter this, ofc.

Final thoughts:

If I were to rely on a camera as a working tool, day in and day out I would keep the Z6, but as I’m not making a living off of the camera I might sell it. But I was almost shocked when I got the X-T3 again, it literally feels like it’s gonna fall apart in my hands compared to the Nikon (and I imagine the Canon EOS R).

Thank you Simon, great points, and exactly my feelings. Before I buy the Z6, I've ordered an XT3, as I was using an XT2.
I've opened the box, took the camera out of its cocoon and, before mounting a lens, inspected the sensor, as I read that some people found dusts stuck under the first layer (do not remember which filter it is), and had to send it back to Fuji for repair. And, I was lucky enough to find a big dust in the middle of the sensor ! So, I've grabbed my rocket blower, trying to remove the spot. As I was blowing, the part around the sensor (do not know of what it is made, but it looks like dark fiber "paper"/cardboard) was moving like hell. Oh, I couldn't believe it, was like a toy made of paper... I sent if back asap, and waited for the Z6 to be in stock and compare it to the A7iii.

I've loved so much things in the XT2, but hated more. The Z6 fulfills those bad points (for my usage at least), despite, I know, having less sexy video appealing. I want a robust hybrid for photo + video, and the Z6 is a better choice for me. I agree with your and Andrews view, it feel more like a tool (exactly what the big dslr feel like, to me). Plus, I absolutely hate the plague of the instagramish style ?

Seriously, the image out of the XT3 is really beautiful, and I might reconsider it later, as I will buy a second camera, more video oriented, to complement the Z6. I will look at the bmpcc4k, bmpcc, gh5s and the XT3 (or XH2 if it come out one day).

There are a lot of great options for us ; just need to find what suits you best.

An update, after having played with footages in resolve. I've discovered an nanoying behavior with the 24-70 f4, the same I encountered with Fuji. At 24mm, there are some visible wobbles in the corners. I do not think it is an ibis related problem, but more an auto distortion control one. It was the same with Fuji. A guy too find this behavior on dvxuser http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?361639-Nikon-Z6-10bit-output/page2

The option is greyed out in the menu, with this lense. I hope they will offer the possibility to disable it.

For the record, it seems that this behavior does not occur at longer focals with this lense. Which would be logical given the distortion presents at 24mm.

It is not present on the footages I've shot with the adapted 50mm 1.8 G. I will do some tests to be 100% sure.

Anyway, the good news is that, as I need to stabilize my footages in resolve due to very high winds while recording, the problem is solved even with a small amount of stabilization in resolve ! The footages are steady, and wobbles free, at a really small cost !

Ah, and the image is really gorgeous... the internal flat profile seems to hold well the grading. I continue to learn how to not trash a footage with an awful grading, and I'll share some stuff ?

Just a quick update, as I've just come back from 3 days of winter camping in the mountains, and I want to share my short experience concerning battery life.
So, during 3 days with just below 0°C temperatures, I shot mainly short video sequences (around 30s) from dawn to dusk, milky way photography one night, some landscape photo in the morning and in the evening, and a lot of image reviewing. The camera stayed outside with the battery still inside it (I usually remove the battery from the camera in winter, and take it inside my sleeping bag, but not this time).

Right now, I'm reviewing all the material, and the battery indicator displays  3 remaining bars out of 5. I'm quite satisfied... with my Fujis, I would have used 3 batteries ! As usual, there is quite a gap between internets myths and real life experience !

Face tracking with adapted lenses on the z6 (The guy did a previous video with the z7 too). Not too bad for a 105 1.4 lenses, and adapted...

I obtain pretty similar results with my z6 + 24-70 f4 which is, by far, sufficient for my needs !!

Just a tip :

By default, the camera is set to shut down after a given delay (30s or 1min, can't remember), and goes into standby mode. I was surprised when everything went black in the middle of a long shoot ! The setting to change is in Custom Menu => C "Timers AE Lock" => C3 "Power off delay" => Standby timer. I set it to "No Limit". The Everedy day dad has pointed it out in its review, and someone gave him the tip.

I'm just back from a winter hike in the snow, and the z6 was out to take its first freezing assault. Some observations :
 

• I can operate with my lightweight gloves without any problem. It is a huge plus. The touch screen works OK ; some icons on the screen are rather small, thus difficult to touch, but nothing insurmountable. I repeat, again, the screen and evf are both splendid.
• Switching between still and video is just perfect, as a lot of people have pointed. It is so much better than what I was used to with my Fuji X-T2. For hybrid shooters, it is clearly a big plus.
• Ibis is really good, and I managed to walk on the snow while filming, and It appears to be quite good (have to check on my big monitor). For photography, it is very good.
   
• I love the 24-70 f4 s. Reminds me of the great fuji kit lense 18-55 ois. I've checked for focus breathing, and can't find some (or it is so minimal that I can't see it... but I'm not an expert).
• I don't like the two "fn" buttons on the front, near the mount. With gloves on, I barely can feel when I press them, as they are not designed like the others (without gloves they are OK).
• AUTOFOCUS : oh, what a big big thing for me !! I love to manually pull focus (I'm still learning, and suck at it, but I enjoy learning to properly operate it), but I have entirely relied on AF for this hike. I set the AF parameters in order to obtain smooth transitions. And it is exactly as what you can see on a lot of review : its is smooooooth !! Very like manual to my eyes ; I have to be honest :  it is much better than what I can manually do :D I've used AFC to follow my girlfriend while walking, and on the backscreen it seems to do job. I'm waiting for the camera to slowly warm up in its bag, in order to transfer the files and judge on my monitor. But, when I performed close-up, with a move of the focus point on the background, then on something else, it performed flawlessly. Very smooth transition and accurate focusing with no hunting. 

For photo, I have to try serious AFC, but I know it won't be that great... and I will live with it, as it's not a priority to me.

I will try to take the time, quickly, to edit the videos and share something. By the way, is someone have tips and advices to grade Nikon flat profile ?

To sum up : I was happy with the handling of the camera, Ibis, AF in video, colours and WB. Now, I'm really really really happy, as I know it will be a great tool to operate, eaxctly as I wanted

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Why would you buy a camera that knowingly sucks for AFC? That screws you both on the Photo and Video side. What you just going to take photos, videos of a tree in your back yard with no wind?

Well, because, I guess, not everyone in the world is a "soccer mom" or Moose Petterson :D But seriously, I'm firstly a landscape photographer, so personally I don't care much about AFC in still. I shoot wildlife too, but not BIF, nor high speed running cheetahs during safaris ; more placid ibex in the mountains in winter, grazing reindeers in autumn or chasing Northern hawk owl. I shoot nightscapes too, in manual focus. As for video, mostly narrative and documentary style stuff. I'm not a vlogger or a youtuber, just an amateur enjoying taking pictures. The z6 let me do this and achieving modest results, according to my needs, that satisfies me.
 

14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well it is their first effort. It is not going to be perfect even with a bunch of Firmware updates. It will take a few more generations to get up to speed.

Yes, you are right ! I know it's not as powerful as other offerings, but not too shabby for a first attempt. They've decided to port their dsrl body spirit in it, and I like that. But, unfortunately Nikon is not the champion of firmware updates... and there is a bunch of small annoying stuffs that could be solved via a firmware update (photography life has a long and interesting list for z7/z6).

Nice thank you ! I'm really liking the image. Flat profile ? Everybody praised it with the d750. It will be great to compare with the 10bits. I did not have time yesterday evening to perform some tests, but hopefully tonight will be OK. As for today, I've only shot short tests, with tweaked standard profile and the flat one, and I'm enjoying the output of the standard (I'll certainly ruin the flat footages in attempting to grade it so...).

By the way, are you considering buying a cage ? I've got an eye on the smallrigs (https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-nikon-z6-nikon-z7-camera-2243.html) + lens adapter support.

Interesting finsd concerning video AF :

The Z6 behaves differently when using adapted Sigma lens (I have to check if it is the same with an adapted Nikkor lens), native Z lens and when using the touchscreen AF. The transition is really smooth (I find it pleasing) when using the native lens, but faster with the Sigma. It's like the AF settings were ignored with the latter. When using tap focusing, the native becomes as fast as the Sigma.

Caleb's favorite lenses for 2018, featuring a set of Nikkor f/2.8 : 17-35, 28-70 and 80-200. Those 3 are really tempting... heavy but tempting ?

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Can you or any Z6 or even Z7 (for the other sensor) owner/user post such ISO comparison test (with the cap on + NR off and so on properly set, obviously) along the whole ISO range, please?

Sure, I will try tonight with my z6. What exactly should I do (sorry, never did stuff like this) ? Camera on tripod with lenscap on, NR Off (+ others parameters properly set), then record every ISO step from 100 to 51200 for a couple of seconds, then edit this to make a short video ?

On 12/6/2018 at 11:02 PM, BTM_Pix said:

There is no downside to the PF except for the price and if you want to use it on a non Nikon body.

I would definitely urge you to try the original on the Z body though to make sure it feels OK in terms of balance. Bear in mind that my experience of it is using it was on big lumps like the D3s and D4 where the weight wasn't an issue. On a much lighter mirrorless it might be a different story especially as the adapter will be adding to the heaviness in the nose.

With regard to using the PF for wildlife then the huge reduction in the weight in the camera pack vs the original will pay big dividends over the course of a day if you are trekking or whatever. 

What I would say though is that if the 300mm might not have enough reach then whilst it works very well with a TC but you are then at f5.6 (plus more money for the TC) so I might suggest she looks at the 200-500mm f5.6. Its the same aperture with a bit more reach and a lot more flexibility albeit at the expense of a bit of weight. It is a fantastic performer though and would be another compromise option worth considering, especially as it is significantly cheaper.

Guess what, after a long week-end of reflections, she has finally decided to go for the 300 PF (+ tc1.4), and get rid of her Tamron 150-600 ! The latter has become a real penalty as hiking is often involved when we operate. Now, if money was not an issue, the 500 PF would have been a target. We can find the 300 on the used market for around 1100€, which will be covered  by  selling both the Tamron and a Nikon D600 (already sold !). This little gem will better suit our needs !
 

On 12/7/2018 at 2:59 PM, homestar_kevin said:

Yeah, if you're looking for long reach on Nikon, don't overlook the 200-500mm

 

I really really want one. It's cheap and has awesome VR that works great with the Nikon Z's

Also, if you're putting the zoom set together, you really need the 80-200mm 2.8 to complete the set. It's amazing glass for cheap these days 

So, now, as we will share the tools, we have to choose one or two complementary lenses : Nikkor 200-500 f5.6, 70-200 f2.8 or even a third party 100-400. As for a 80-200 f2.8, I need to check if it is compatible with my FTZ adapter (edit while writing, as it appears to be : https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/camera-lenses/dslr-lenses/index.page)
 

On 12/6/2018 at 11:02 PM, BTM_Pix said:

MPB are good guys and I've always had good service and prices. They are only in Brighton so with a following wind they should be able to deliver stuff over the channel to France with a decent catapult.

Which will probably be the only way to get goods off the island post Brexit ! 

Oh, that is good to hear ; I really want to add a 17-35 f2.8 and a 28-70 f2.8 to my kit, and the prices are really more interesting at mpb than here in France (c*ap, the 28-70 "Bourne" is not part of the official compatibility list...but it is an AFS and should work 100%).

While the catapult launching is an appealing idea, I am not sure and, frankly, quite concerned about the potentially hazardous result ! I was born in Normandy, at the seaside, and, as far as I can remember, the dominant winds came from West, North-West. So, I fear my package from the UK could drift and finally land into Paris, right among the yellow riot ! I now live in the Alps, and it would be a long and perilous journey to reach my package during those dark days... Not counting the fact they block each roundabout, so it would really be looooong ? OK, I'm digressing....

2 hours ago, hansel said:

@Geoff_L it would be great to see or hear about g lenses with VR in combo with ibis. Or on top of that plus electronic VR. What works best where, e.g. For still, panning, etc....

Cheers

Yes, you're totally right. As I'm debating between the old 300 f4 and the 300 VR PF, I want to know what works (and don't) by combining ibis + ftz + vr lenses. I even got a tamron 150-600 to try out :D But, I do not have a lot of vr/G lenses anymore, so I'm gonna see what I can do (maybe borrow from friends).

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

Thank you, I always highly value your experience, and this one does not disappoint ! Don't tempt me on the 300 PF, I'm fighting this for weeks The 500 PF seems to be quite great too. Problem is they cost more than my car (at least for the 500 !). My girlfriend is a wildlife photographer, and she is tempted by the 300 PF as well ! I need to check how a VR lens works with the new FTZ and ibis on Z bodies. If it adds a substantial gain in stabilization, by combining the benefits of both, it will surely be very interesting.
Yes, the 70-200 + TC is appealing, as I've used it in the past with great results. But I was thinking of covering this focal range with a 85mm and a 135mm, or maybe a 70-200 f4 (love this for landscape in the mountains : light and useful). So, many choices and parameters to weigh up ! The good thing is that I can find most of the lenses cheap on mpb (I think they can deliver to France). Thanks again, I'll let you know what I find.