androidlad

On current sub 1" CMOS sensors like the IMX586 used on MAVIC Air 2, the ADC operates at only 10bit, this is the reason why even at base ISO, in both photo and video mode, anything below middle grey is covered in noise.

2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

I'm guessing Canon is more interested in selling lenses than anything else. Of course, they want to sell cameras, but it would make sense that the margins are WAY higher on lenses than on cameras. EF becoming the standard for so long definitely helped and if the RF-Mount becomes the new mirrorless mount that everyone without their own mount uses (Red, Z-Cam, Black Magic, etc), then I'm sure Canon would be very happy with that. 

So Canon gets compressed raw (though only to about 5:1) and Red gets mounts and sensor help. Wonder what else is going on. 

RED may have helped Canon develop the DIGIC X Processor, and other yet to be announced ones

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I noticed that the new remote seems a lot more practical than the owful - older - design. That's a good thing I guess.

This is clearly their amateur line, while we are waiting obviously a new Mavic series, and probably keep the existing ones with reduced price. Probably the Mavic 2 zoom near 999, the Mavic 2 Pro for 1.199 and the new ones at 1.249 and 1.499. Something like that.

I am wondering what's the size difference between the two..

Also consider Autel EVO II series, they are rapidly catching up and are pushing frequent firmware updates.

Another thing is that with the switch to the new DJI Fly app, there's no longer the option to adjust the sharpening (and contrast, saturation). So in video mode you're stuck with the over-sharpened edge halo.

3 hours ago, Patrick B. said:

@cardinalallen good information to consider.  I overlooked the comment about the C300 seeing more into the shadows.  So even though the SNR1 rating was lower than the C500, it may be that you can actually eke out more in post.  Interesting point about the color channels in highlights.  I’ll be interested in seeing how it handles this.

Also, I noticed the Mavic Air 2 does some kind of HDR processing where different pixels are mapped to different exposures, similar to what DGO is doing.  Are other cameras doing this with Sony sensors?  That sounds like a useful feature for high resolution sensors that I didn’t consider before.  I’ve heard talk about quad Bayer sensors where blocks of pixels can become pseudo bigger pixels and record better low light at lower resolutions like we see in new camera phones.  But I never considered that high resolution sensors could actually record two exposures in lower resolution and essentially turn what is usually a negative sensor attribute for video into a positive.

The HDR video mode on Mavic Air 2 uses the DOL-HDR feature on the newer Sony sensors, it's very similar to dual gain but the two readout are not completely simultaneous (a few miliseconds apart), and requires 2 ADC for high and low gain, which halves the max frame rate and doubles the rolling shutter.

9 hours ago, cardinalallen said:

I think there are a few caveats with this test.

First, it's using a pre-production camera.

Second, it's using XF-AVC. The author argues that with a log curve like CLog2, there won't be any difference between that and raw. Personally, I suspect it's a bit more complicated than that, and depends significantly on the implementation. I've heard for example that the Alexa ekes out a tiny bit more DR with arriraw than with Prores. 

Third, and related to the first and second point, Clog2 is only rated for 15-stops DR. Whilst under the above measurement the C300 Mk III only has 12.8 stops, it technically is rated by Canon at 16-stops. This matters because presumably some work has to happen on Canon's side to figure out how to distribute its DR within the Clog2 gamma. 

In the comments, the author writes the following: 

Given that it's a pre-production camera, there could well be some tweaking that needs to be done on this front.

Fourth, it says nothing of the actual roll-off. This is ultimately the crucial question. Canon said that the DGO would allow for higher saturation in highlights, which is crucial to that smooth roll-off; what happens at present is that different colour channels clip at different rates and thus you end up with colour posterisation in the highlights. Roll-off always looks so much better in black-and-white for this reason.

This test might prove to be accurate with the production model, but I think we should treat it with caution.

The only caveat I agree with is the fact that it's a pre-production camera.

Remember it was a standardised lab test, Alexa was tested in ProRes using the same methodology, so it's completely fair to test C300 MK III with XF-AVC. With Alexa being the benchmark, there's something to compare to, so if want to take into account DR distribution in specific log curves, highlight roll-off etc., then the Alexa DR would change too, so maybe instead of 14 vs. 12.8, you could get 15 vs. 13.8. Again remember it's a standardised test, the DR numbers are all relative to the benchmark, we can't look at them on their own.

2 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Download the dng pictures from this thread: https://mavicpilots.com/threads/mavic-air-2-sample-photos-and-videos.86461/ but I'm not impressed I would like to the see the 12 Mpix dng because these 48 Mpix tricks brings nothing at least with this samples..... did not check the video yet

 

Because it's Quad Bayer RAW, it can look better than native 12MP if you capture 48MP and downscale in post.

6 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I believe it was 2k 200mbps

Just shot some tests at 2k 100mbps Long GOP, no issues in the shadows. Really weirded out wtf is this 

 

It's the infamous F-log banding/macro-blocking, discussed before.

49 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

what's your take Vs the Mavic 2 Pro? I have barely used mine, I wouldn't like to sell it already..

Obviously the sensor is bigger in 2 Pro, and more sensors I guess.. I do not mind the size, I believe it is just perfect, not Phantom-like, which it was too much, but feels more substantial than the Air 2 design (I guess).

Image quality wise, in daylight Air 2 will be very similar, if not slight better than the Pro. Of course it won't be as good in low light, and it doesn't have 10bit and D-log M.

It's official:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/04/28/dji-unveils-mavic-air-2/

It supports HEVC/H.265 codec but only at 8bit.

Initial review suggests significant image quality improvement over the original Air, including low light.

1 hour ago, Attila Bakos said:

It seems this LUT is not up to Fuji's standards, it has a few weird transitions:

Well I guess it's called bleach for a reason...

I'm sure you can fix it with your nice package of tools

43 minutes ago, sanveer said:

It does seem to say that it has a few HDR modes. Hopefully, some of them are for video too. 34mins flight time(?), 68kms speed(?), and 10kms travel range(?).

Yeah HDR photos, video and panorama (multi-exposure blending)

34min flight time, 68km/h max speed, 10km max signal range.

Mavic Air 2 confirmed to have 4K 60P @ 120Mbps video, also 1080/240P and 8K timelapse video.

2 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Apple just licenses out the codec. Which is quite different to the RED patents, which block people from doing internal compressed raw. Oh hang on, the MAVO Edge doesn't do great compression than 5:1 ProResRAW? Is that still light enough compression that it isn't covered by RED's patents?

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT200321#proresraw

Not yet in Apple's list but should be there by the time the camera ships.

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Is it IMX309 in the Panasonic S1 / S1H as well?

And I am asuming the 60MP one in the Z-CAM E2 F8 is also in the A7R IV.

Get Canon's image processor in there immediately 

S1/S1H are based on IMX410, the A7 III sensor, also seen on Z6, MAVO LF and ZCAM F6, it's extremely popular.

Yes the 60MP one is IMX455.

With no surprise, the sensor is based on IMX309, the one used in Nikon D850 and Z7.

51 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

In most of those examples above it is just the orange & teal grading in action.

Although doing nuanced warm and cool shades in one frame is indeed the hallmark of a nice image, in my opinion.

Nuanced tones like cyan and good white balance are one of the traits of the 1D C and what separated it form just merely a "very good" 4K camera at the time like the Samsung NX1.

So it isn't about 10bit.

It's the white balance, colour science, and sensor.

 

It's not quite that simple. You can't add what the camera doesn't capture.

You can change hues and biases but if the baseline capture is flawed it gives you a TON of time consuming work to do AND never looks as good as a better file.

Meant to type "can't" on the phone.

you can't just add cyan to any footage make them look high end.

It's actually called - cyan.

There is indeed a general cyan tint in high end camera footage, but it's not the sole characteristic of their colour science, you can just add cyan to any footage make them look high end.

Fujifilm just released F-log to Bleach Bypass LUT, it's only included in X-T4 folder but it can be used on all F-log capable Fujifilm cameras:

https://dl.fujifilm-x.com/support/lut/F-Log_LUT_E_Ver.1.16.zip

Just dropping this here with all the R5 buzz:

RED Komodo sensor was co-designed with and manufactured by Canon, it's literally an APS-Cish crop of the full frame sensor on R5.

22 minutes ago, independent said:

I imagine rolling shutter won’t be great for either the r5 and r6. Cinema lines instead. Although I hope it won’t be as bad the the R. It was a deal breaker for me. 

R5 will have Canon's fastest on-chip ADC from 1DX III with readout speed at 174Kp/s @ 12bit, compared to Sony's current gen of 180Kp/s.

With this data, the 45MP sensor can scan DCI 8K at 40fps so rolling shutter will be around 25ms.

https://dronedj.com/2020/04/22/new-dji-mavic-air-2-price-and-photos-leak-online/

It uses the 1/2" Quad Bayer 48MP IMX586 sensor, the same one used on Autel EVO II 8K.

It shoots 4K video and 48MP stills.

Retail price $799

Full official release on the 27th.

@Andrew Reid 1DX III owners/shooters, some might not know this but here's how you can bring back the legendary 1DC colour science:

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That ended in 2018. The day that ended the companies should have released firmware to remove this restriction!!

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2016-001277&language=LT

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/06/17/agreement-on-trade-in-it-products/

Tariffs ended yes, but the product categorisation still exists, changing digital stills camera to video camera requires assigning new serial numbers to every unit sold, it's not possible to do this.