Video Hummus

3 hours ago, independent said:

I don't get the complaints about dynamic range. All recent cameras (non-Arri, non-Red) get around 12 stops—including the R5 in raw. 

Raw is noisy, including Redcode, and NR is a necessary tool in post. If you don't want to shoot in Raw, there are other options out there that will give you a cleaner image with higher dynamic range. 

The tradeoff of course will be more artifacts, limited latitude, or worse color. It's your choice. 

Even the Komodo has tradeoffs. On image quality alone, it has relatively awful low-light and limited latitude with dramatic color shifts. 

If you just can't live without 13 stops of dynamic range or the world will be bereft of your creative potential and professional skills, you have a simple answer: C70. 

 

After CLOG3 was added I don't have many complaints. It strikes a nice balance of offering more highlight recovery than clog1 while keeping shadow noise low for easy workflow. I'm sure technically its still behind latest Sony Cameras but comparing them is starting to feel like splitting hairs in 90% of situations. Lots of other things matter after that. Plus we have compressed RAW lite now, and with a bit more effort in post, some amazing results can be achieved for a mirrorless camera (especially one from Canon).

I think after stepping back and looking at the whole package that is the R5 and after having used it for several months now... It's pretty sweet. The 4KLQ thing was massively overblown it was ridiculous. People zooming in on tests charts 200% or 400% and saying it looks like crap (it does). But in the real world after YouTube compression or H264 delivery there isn't that many downsides to using it.

Not to mention the RF mount ecosystem has a bright future with RED KOMODO and future cinema cameras from canon...perhaps Blackmagic will join RF too?!

I would like to see cheap 20/24mm wide F1.8 primes and an updated RP with clog1 and perhaps no crop FF 4K for a replacement for the M50 style camera. A quality, powered digital hotshot mic would be nice with that setup too to keep things lean or at least open up the protocol so Røde, Deity, or Sennheiser can make products for it.

R5 4KHQ, RF 24-70mm, clog3/cinema gamut.

The speed ratings on the cards are for "burst" writing or reading. It's a marketing game. I will only buy from manufactures that list "max continuous/sustained" writing/reading speeds. They usually are much lower than the advertised speed and is the number that is the most important for video and high speed shooting.

You also have to remember these CFExpress cards have firmware that will throttle the speed based on temperature and will routinely write slower (but still plenty fast) to keep heat down. There is no sense in writing at max speed if the data being supplied is at a relative constant rate (such as 8K video coming in at (225 MB/s).

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Yeah the dynamic range for photos on the R6 is really good. Seems more on par with Sony and Nikon vs the EOS R or older Canon DSLRs which were always behind in shadow and highlight retention. 

It's weird on the R5 even in RAW dynamic range is not great. The A7S3 and Panasonic S1 are quite a bit better. The shadows do hold more detail in RAW than CLOG1 and CLOG3 which basically cut off the shadows to reduce noise, but the highlights just aren't there. 

Yeah, I love the new RAW Lite but it kinda isn't worth it when the DR seems gimped even in clog2 mode. So much processing to do to clean up shadows to eek out 0.3 stops extra.

The clog3 mode does offer 1 stop better highlight recovery and its worth using, especially in the 4KHQ. I've been shooting it with cinema gamut and it looks nice with the R5 Cinema Gamut CLOG3 to Rec.709 LUT. You do have to tweak the exposure quite a bit but the highlights recovery much better than clog1.

They just need to fix the damn view assist.

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I hope Panasonics next release has internal RAW. Panasonic has always been one to push boundaries. 

Me too. Even if it is 5:1 or 3:1 with large file sizes. At least it will be there. Cost of media is always going down so it becomes less and less expensive to shoot.

I can also see having high frame rate RAW in a GH6 beneficial for wildlife and sports. 8K60p RAW would be nice for birding/wildlife. 4K240p would be a step up and make it a large sensor high frame rate speciality camera, perhaps even 960p in 1080. I've seen great stuff done with Sony RX camera at 960fps for low budget slowmo.

The 8:1 compression for RAW on R5 makes the RAW very useable imho. It's just a shame, even with clog2, that the final image is just gimped in the DR department compared to other FF cameras and the C70. I've been playing around with the clog3 mode and the more I use it the more I think it was a solid upgrade for the R5, especially for the 4KHQ mode—especially in cinema gamut.

On 4/1/2021 at 9:07 AM, ade towell said:

Wondering if the RAW light would also allow some of the cheaper cfexpress cards to work better. The price of the officially compatible ones are still eye watering

I've had no problems with my Angelbird AV Pro 256GB in any mode. They offer some of the best $/GB for CFExpress Type B. I was thinking about upgrading to their 1TB card since the released firmware to address the slow boot ups.

They sure bungled the clog3 update with the view assist, wtf. What is the point of a rec709 preview if it's blown out on the screen when correctly exposed? Also, the light versions of the codecs make little sense if the 29m59s recording limits are still there!

There were rumors there was a 1.3.2 firmware version for R5, hopefully it addresses this issue and makes clog3 as easy to record in as clog1.

2 minutes ago, elgabogomez said:

Red still has the patent for compressed raw recording, atomos got a deal with them and was able to have the prores raw, canon got a deal with them and is able to have canon raw lite. Blackmagic created Braw to avoid a Red lawsuit and is in the clear. Everyone else can’t have internal compressed raw on any camera.

Now s1h can send out the hdmi signal for compressed raw to two different formats, so no, I don’t think internal raw is coming to any Panasonic camera any time soon.

I think the addition of Canon RAW lite to the R5 at around 8:1 compression is a big deal. It's in a Canon hybrid camera ffs. If only they would release a R5 mk2 or r5c or whatever with good dynamic range and no overheating to take advantage of it and give RED a run for their money.

I think for sure GH6, if released, will be the last MFT camera from Panasonic. The only thing it has going for it would he high frame rate, high resolution video.

20 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

This is what I'm saying since a long time Canon RAW and the new RAW Light is fast and easy to edit on a good PC in Resolve on a 4k timeline, 8k timeline you need more than 8GB VRAM.....

The new RAW light on 16GB M1 MBP will playback when viewer is set to “best performance” in FCP. Image looks fantastic.

I’m not sure what is going on but there seems to be a screen brightness or even view assist problem in clog3 mode. I’m also still having problems with zebra 1+2. Zebra 1 is set to 55 and zebra 2 is set at 95 and only 95 is showing. I’ve tested multiple times and doubled and triple checked my settings. It works fine in 4KHQ. 

3 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Yes, it's not there, or it wasn't when checked earlier... they listed it on the US press release but it's updates are always kinda slow for the US site. I have made a habit of looking on the Japan site on release dates. 

anyways, I'm running 2.2 from the provided link, and have no issues seeing the files on FCPX.

Updated. v2.2 working like a charm.

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I thought they did away with the recording limits? 

No, Canon annoying has 29m59s recording limits...👎🏻

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

This is truly surprising as the compression ratio is more than any C camera from Canon. 8k RAW at 1.3 Gbits/s is very very good is basically in the same ballpark as 8:1 RED 8k RAW

Yes I’m very surprised. Up to 24 minutes of RAW light compared to standard 12 minutes with 256GB card. 

1 hour ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Did you get the Canon RAW Plugin 2.2 for Final Cut Pro X?

if not: https://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0200006353/01/rpfm-2-2-0-5-9l.dmg.gz

Huh...I just see v2.1 on Canon USA.

EDIT: I see they have 2.2 on canon Asia website. Man, they have terrible department communications.
 

I can’t get the new RAW light files to display in Final Cut Pro on a M1 MBP. I can import them but the video files are just all black. There is sound and FCP correctly applied Canon Log2 in the settings. Strange. Files playback fine on R5.

After a quick test mid-morning before work...

I'm pretty happy with having CLOG3. It gives a slight bump in DR and if I protect highlights a bit and just bump midtones up slightly the image looks really nice. This is with Canons R5 CLOG3 corrective LUT.

Really, really interested in RAW light and creating a workflow for that.

Only issue I've encountered, and maybe I'm just dumb, is that it looks like Zebra 1+2 goes away in CLOG3 mode? I only have one set up zebras...

11 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Why not in RAW? I think most people that use RAW they then deliver in 4k anyway so you get the same benefits but you can control how much NR is applied compared to CLog that has some NR going on. Depending if I punch in or not I do apply more or less NR.....

I always like to overexpose RAW just a bit. Not saying you can't.

Wow, this is an awesome update and fairly un-Canon of Canon. The two headline features for me are:

1. Cinema RAW Light
2. CLOG3 in 4K modes.

I would like more tests on the differences of CLOG and CLOG3 on R5. Even in slashcams test image with the clouds the difference is slight but noticeable and takes away some of the video look. Would have liked to see a full stop improvement but I'll take it! I've mode in most cases, when shooting in 4KHQ mode, you can lift shadows and midtones with very little problems in the final image, so in some cases I expose for the highlights and lift in post and it looks really good. I wouldn't do that in RAW or non HQ modes though. The 8K -> 4K oversample really squashes noise and makes it super fine grained.

Version 1.3.0 of R5 firmware out in the wild and most likely to be released this week.

Please, I hope it includes what they have been rumoring and also bug fixes. I had my R5 freeze on me twice when using 1.6x crop video mode. No other freezes except in this mode for me. 

4 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

As an engineer, the goal when writing a patent is to try and make it as broad as possible. I expect RED's patents to cover any camera internal compressed RAW recording, no matter the compression rate. What we do not know, is if Canon is already paying a license agreement to RED, or if a technology reciprocation agreement exist between the two companies. If I remember correctly, didn't RED's new Komodo come with the Canon RF mount? That is a really really big deal, which says tons about the cooperation between the two.

Yes, but CRAW light existed well before RF Komodo.

I mean reading the RED patent it’s pretty clear about resolution and compression ratios but I’m not a patent lawyer so I’m sure it’s more complicated than that.

Seems weird canon is the only mainstream camera manufacture with a internal RAW option. Z-cam ZRAW is like BRAW I do believe which isn’t quite the same thing but still offers more control than 10-bit log.

3 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

They did the right thing, or they'd be in the same boat as Kinefinity. Sigma gets away with internal RAW because it's not compressed, so you can get a whole 20 minutes of 8-bit video on a 256GB card.

Cant they come up with a Panasonic version of Canon Cinema RAW Light? Something compressed up to the limit of that RED patent. 

I would rather wait for compressed internal RAW then have to use a external recorder on a mirrorless camera. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a smaller camera in the fist place.

Really surprised they didn’t put something faster than SD in the S1H. Kinda of a cripple move when the S1/S1R has CFX. They could have at least down some form of RAW for the camera. 

2 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

Well, after watching yesterday's LUMIX Cameras YT channel live stream [link] covering the upcoming S-Sries FW updates I'm still not seeing the reason for XQD/CFExpress B in the S1.

I had hoped (when buying the camera) that having such a high-speed card slot forebode some sort of upcoming FW update that could/would make use of those data transfer speeds. I actually thought, "Hmm, this thing is built to be a sprinter, let's see what Panasonic has in store for that card slot!" only to find out it's always going to be a trotter. (Too harsh?)

I'm thinking engineering/marketing department overshoot? No CFExpress B on subsequent S1H, S5, I suppose we'll never know.

Probably more related to economies of scale. All future cameras will probably have CFExpress. Easier to just reuse parts, software, firmware for all models going forward.

On 3/22/2021 at 8:35 AM, Jimmy G said:

all I'm requesting is that the same bit-dumps should be made available to my internal XQD/CFExpress cards recording at 1700MB/s as are being piped out over HDMI to AtomX drives recording at 540MB/s.

Doesn't seem like too much to ask, is it? 😉

They no longer have "slow internal media" as an excuse anymore when we now have CFExpress Type B (not type A; its garbage imho) that is essentially running the same hardware and protocols as a M.2 SSD over PCIExpress (hence the 'express' in CFExpresses name!).

If the GH5S had good AF it would have been an insanely popular camera I think for many creators.

A GH6 with good PDAF and decent lowlight and features that rival BM Pocket cameras would be an insanely popular camera.

If they added internal ND and PDAF to anything it would be an insanely popular camera.

I would like to see it, because a GH6 with oversampled 4K, internal ND, PDAF, full vlog and one of those fast but cheap MFT primes would make a great b-camera for me and I suspect a lot of others. The total package would be small and fast to deploy 

this is pretty close:

23 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

To summarize: I shoot in 4k dci, because of the aspect ratio and also because my lenses actually get a little wider.

Only because in most implementations 4K/1080p 16:9 aren't using the full horizontal width of the sensor. So your 24mm lens in DCI is actually closer to true 24mm FOV than when shooting 16:9 modes...unless your Sony.

I think a lot of companies are getting better and better at making the lens elements out of plastic composite materials without sacrificing optical quality.

I do like the build quality of the Canon RF lenses. They are made out of "engineering plastic" but they feel super solid and survivable if tossed around. Plus the tear downs of some RF lenses by Lens Rentals shows they are pretty solidly constructed. I don't think I miss metal all that much.

Although I sold it, the MFT Panasonic Leica 50-200mm f/2.8-4 was sexy and built well...even better than the PL 10-25mm f/1.7. I was a bit disappointed when I got that lens in my hand and compared it to the 50-200.

On 3/18/2021 at 12:35 PM, andrgl said:

@gt3rs it’s a ridiculous lens. I did manage to play with one at a launch event. That lens is enough to make me want to switch at least partially back to Canon.

I really wish it was 24-70 f/2 or if focal length needs to be sacrificed for size/weight than a 24-60 or something. I really like 24mm.

5 hours ago, BrunoLandMedia said:

Question 1 - Real Estate and single camera videos shoots.

R5 with CLOG3 might be a good investment here. When the R5C comes out you can grab one of those as your main cam and the R5 will be a pretty sweet 2nd or 3rd cam. The 4KLQ is still much better than anything out of the EOS R. Long 4K60p shoots might become a problem on R5 has it does overheat in both FF and crop mode.

It's too bad canon doesn't make wide, fast EF-S glass.

5 hours ago, BrunoLandMedia said:

Question 2 - For 5 camera shoots.

BM wouldn't be a bad option here, especially the P6K Pro. The build quality is worrisome though.