A_Urquhart

15 hours ago, PPNS said:

I’ve actually used both cameras, and how would you exactly define the fx3 to be a better video tool? I think both are completely miserable to use for video, especially compared to the fx6, which i do really like. I guess the fx3 has a slightly less dogshit menu system, but you cant really handhold it like an a7s (and you could use the evf as a third point of contact there).
 

The screens are more or less pointless to judge anything on there, so you need an external monitor (sadly also the case for the fx6, but it’s more bearable). Since they’re both FF they both need big ass lenses which makes the ergonomics extra awkward. You could rig both of them up, but that often makes them worse or more annoying to use, but I guess this will always be a problem with smaller cameras. They are fine on a tripod, and have to potential to get really good results, if there’s somebody next to you who knows the menu system through and through.

Sure, I’d rather the use the FX6 over the FX3 but as a B Cam I much prefer the FX3 and FX30 to the A7 line. They are made for video, have internal fans, much easier to navigate video focused menus and a proper top handle with XLR inputs that actually screws into the body so no cage required if you don’t need it. I like the rear tally light of the FX series and the time code support as well as the ease of witch you can easily record four channels of audio. Lots of little things that make the user experience far better for video. 

9 hours ago, Rinad Amir said:

Can you please stop being Sony apologiest for moment and explain how was fx3 Supervisior to a7siii? Exactly in image quality? Also post some of your work so we can see the big difference in superiority as you claim ,so far internet claims both has identical hardware .

Just admit it 

There is a lot more to a camera than 'image quality' and he did say it was a 'Superior video tool'  to which, for video shooters, the FX3 IS superior to the A7SIII.

While it's a shame that Sony doesn't bring some of the new features to the A7 line given that we know the hardware can probably take it, I guess that is now Sony's way of saying "the FX line is for the video shooters" and they don't want to blur the lines. I'd be pissed too if I bought the A7SIII as Sony did market it as their video centric hybrid but it seems they now want to charge direction.

There is a lot that Sony does that makes no sense to the end user.....

20 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

And got to look at the big picture, other stuff such as "not overheating" and "timecode capable" might not impact the image itself, but have a big impact on the production itself!

100%! Most people just look at specs when it comes to cameras but reliability and usability for professionals (and even amateurs) shouldn't be overlooked. Timecode support, better ergo body, no overheating, multiple tally lights etc etc all play a big part of why the last Hybrid camera I bought for video was a GH3 way back then. I hated using the a7 series for video, It just wasn't designed for it and had far too many shortcomings. 

I'm guessing that the 'Cinema Line' cameras have different product managers and fall under different departments at Sony compared to the Alphs cameras and this may be why Firmware updates on one product line don't automatically apply to the photo line despite the hardware being very similar. Don't know.

There is a case for buying a tool designed for the job you want to do. While it may not have a mechanical shutter, EVF etc etc at least buying a 'Cinema Line' camera if you just need video means you know that the main focus of the product developers for you camera apply 100% to your use and not stills.

I suppose this is a necessity when you have Arri's poor wireless track record. The WCU4 was absolutely terrible when it came to wireless performance so whatever can help the situation is good I suppose. The Hi5 is supposedly a big step up ....which it needs to be.

On 3/13/2023 at 4:31 AM, Anaconda_ said:

who would pay 500 more for just the colour? I get you can have a preference, but jeez. I'd take a pink one if it was 500 less!

That's the world we live in now. I've even seen YouTube videos showing how to paint your camera body!

Camera's have become fashion items rather than tools of the trade. I wonder if carpenters/electricians etc take the time to paint their tools flashy colours?

On 3/7/2023 at 11:16 AM, SRV1981 said:

If you’re not lighting your subjects or scenes, doing more documentary style shooting and display on YouTube - is there much of a difference between what you use to shoot? (ie - iPhone 14 pro, fx30, BMPCC6K, C70?) 

Curious the thoughts on this when using just a camera and lens with hot shoe mic. 

For 'run n gun' I'd say the camera is MORE important than if you are taking the time to light.

You wan't something robust, that has most of the controls at your fingertips and allows you to plug in and control/monitor a microphone easily. You also want something that has good Image quality, a good codec and good dynamic range to handle the vast variables that Run n Gun has to deal with.

When you have more time and control over the scene, you can get away with less Dynamic Range as you can light for the camera.

I wouldn't run n gun with an iPhone but after that, C70, R5, Pocket 6K,FX30, S1, S5, GH6 etc etc are all great cameras and will not hold you back.

IDK what camera you have but if looking to buy, I'd recommend the Pocket6k Pro or G2 for it's BRAW Codec and super intuitive menus. RAW for Run n Gun is not necessary but does give you more of a chance of recovering a shot when it comes to exposure and white balance in post. There is a reason why most productions I work on shooting Alexa 'only' shoot ProRes, big crews can light accordingly so RAW is not required but for Run n Gun it comes in handy.

I also personally don't recommend AF for Run n Gun. If you have one chance to get the shot, you don't want to risk the AF losing the subject and throwing focus off wildly while it searches for it again. AF systems are getting better and better but the viewer would rather see a shot where you might lose focus momentarily and pull it back organically that a shot where AF goes crazy looking for the subject. AF has a time and place, but manual focus is my pick for Run n Gun work.

This is also why I prefer APS-C sensors, for the same light gathering, you get a slightly deeper DOF to work with that is still shallow enough to look pleasing by today's standards. 

Most importantly, choose a lens that is easy to work with. For fast paced doc work, a Par focal zoom will make your live easier.

Just out of interest, why do you need to shoot 8K on a phone? 

I have the P4K, 6KPro and FX30. 

By far, my favourite to use is the 6K Pro.....mainly for the internal ND's and the better battery life compared to the P4K and regular P6K which use the small LPE6 batteries.  I only got the FX30 as a B Camera to the FX6 for quite a few clients that want Sony but I can't say it brings me 'joy' to use or is a 'fun' camera. I've never really found Sony's user friendly but use them more out of necessity. Technically the FX30 is fantastic, specs wise it's amazing but if you wan't a camera that is easy to use and allows you to focus more on creativity, the 6K Pro is the pick of the bunch. Also has the best image quality IMO even if I do 'only' really ever shoot in ProRes 4K on it.

I also love the fact that the Pocket Cameras can record to inexpensive Samsung T5 and T7 SSD's and this saves you a ton of money compared to Sony where if you want to shoot 10bit ALL-I, you need to buy expensive CFexpress type A cards. With a Tilta cage on the Pockets and using the Tilta Samsung T5 holder, it feels like the SSD's are an integrated part of the camera rather than add on external storage. 

On 2/21/2023 at 2:51 AM, Django said:

Surprisingly close (bit less detail and worst highlight rolloff) considering 6K RAW vs 4K 10-bit.

PS: A is BMPCC6K & B is FX30

I’m not disputing that the P6K may have better highlight rolloff. I have both the 6K Pro and the FX30 but haven’t done any side by side tests. 
I do wonder how accurate comparing two cameras can be when using a lut.

10 hours ago, Django said:

lol.. I do find it interesting to see these younger cats see the light so to say. But sensor size aside, the FX30 does have a more detailed 6K oversampled IQ than A7S3/FX3 and the lower 3200 dual ISO can be more useful than 12800. Only in low-light does the FX30 suffer compared to the FF versions.

The dual base ISO's of the FX30 are 800 and 2500. As an FX6 user, I find the FX30's Base ISO's more usable than the FX6 unless I am shooting in complete darkness (which I never do because professionals use lights.)😉

On 1/1/2023 at 4:10 AM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

If ultimate changing speed is not an issue, was a very good choice. F38 works very well, very sturdy.

The Ulanzi F50 looks like a great (cheap!) alternative to the Leftfield I suggested above for smaller cameras. Considering picking one up. 
Anyone used one? What’s the quality like? Are they solid?

cheers

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Well that one aspect of what I love about R5, no crop on any mode with 8k/4k120p/4k60p/4k30p etc. 

But IBIS even though better Sony's but not as stable as Pany that for sure.

R5 has too many other shortcomings for professional video use. R5C though......

56 minutes ago, Django said:

Oh yeah sure it will work on S5ii too but if you mostly shoot 60p then you are essentially paying FF for an APS-C cam.

When I switch to 60p I like the framing to remain the same so not a fan of cameras that crop on HFR shooting. It's a serious compromise imo.

Same here. That's actually what I love about the FX30. No crop at 50/60p. I can switch frame rates without having to worry about lenses and crop factors. With the speed booster, I can get FF up to 60p too without a crop factor if desired but mainly, I'm happy with APSC and the great lens selection that comes with it.

7 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

The only way Panasonic can compete with the FX6 is on price. And it would have to be a significant difference to sway people away from the Sony. Putting all your R&D budget towards making a camera that is just as good as the FX6, just so that you can sell it for significantly less, is a hard pitch.

Panasonic need to play the long game if they wan't to regain a user base especially one that does spend quite a bit of money over years of ownership. I think Panasonic could easily produce a camera on par, if not better than the FX6 for at least $1000 less. Even if margins are low to start with, they play the long game and entice pro's back to the brand.

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't think they're that far off from being able to EXCEED what the FX6 is capable of and at a lower price point. I'm not saying they should try to, but the gap between the S1H and the FX6 isn't THAT huge. The big difference is form factor, e-ND, and I/O. It already beats it in numerous ways, like resolution and dynamic range. 

People act like Sony is unbeatable, but the tech gap and the headstart they had is narrowing more and more. ......

Yep, Sony are definitely beatable! For a start, I hate the cheap feeling menu dials that ofter skip two or three menu items in one click. Their EVF/Screen is not very robust at all. I'd say Sony's build quality on the FX6 is pretty poor overall. 

Panasonic have been in the broadcast/ ENG game a long time. They now have the tech including AF for those that need it. They just need to package it up in a camera that suits the pro user. FX6-ish form factor, eVND, Full size XLR, Timecode input/output, Genlock, good EVF, etc etc.

20 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Gents! I’m most likely preordering the S5II. The videos that compare to Sony seem like Panny is the go to! 

I think you'll be very happy with the S5II. Looks like a great hybrid camera on paper. 

I wonder wether Panasonic will be able to add timecode input vie the mic minijack in a firmware update like is possible on the BMD Pocket cameras? Seems like a strange omission especially in the X model considering it is obviously aimed at the more professional user. Lack of TC makes it a non option for many and seems like a fairy simple feature to implement but then I'm no engineer.

If we are talking in general terms of Panasonic v Sony rather than being camera specific, while the new S5II is a step in the right direction, Panasonic are not even playing in the same ballpark as Sony for anyone more than a hobbyist. Sony are dominating the market and Panasonic really need to start producing some exceptional cameras both at the FX3/FX30 end and to rival the FX6 if they want to compete in the next few years. Most professionals are not going to jump ship from a system of bodies and lenses unless they are given a very good reason to. Panasonic need to produce an FX6 which is as good or better than Sony's but at a much lower price for people to even consider changing system. Same for FX3 and FX30 level cameras. 

For enthusiasts or people who do their own projects then it's less of an issue to swap systems but to people who spend a fair amount of money on equipment, throwing that all away for a 1-5% improvement when pixel peeping is not going to happen. Panasonic have waited too long to get up to speed and without a proper video camera like the Fx6 I can't see them growing too quickly in markets other than hobbyists.

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Nah I’m good, skin tones just do not look good above 1600 or so. That infamous Sony blotchy-ness rears its ugly head. Noise is terrible too compared to the a7IV. So yes weird color shifts on someone’s face to me is vomit. YMMV.

But this is a silly circle jerk since the OP wants something for photos. An ES only camera, without a stacked sensor or an EVF, that can only do a single shot like it’s 1953 instead of 2023, is just a poor recommendation. As a one camera/lens solution they’re looking for - the superior DR and photo capabilities makes a FF hybrid like the a7IV an infinitely better choice. 

And I actually like the FX30, even thought about getting one as a b/c cam, but it won’t cost much more to get better FF options like a minty used a7IV or a7sIII. 

cheers

chris

Cool story bro. If you can't get images out of the FX30 that don't make you want to vomit, that's user error. You're doing something very wrong.

13 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Panasonic would be absolutely crazy to not chase that market.

The issue is, that they have neglected the market for so long that everyone shoots Sony (and less so, Canon) now. Panasonic have the heritage to slowly change that but they need to start making exceptional cameras very very soon

1 hour ago, Al Dolega said:

They should simplify the lineup and just do an S1H replacement with full-width 4K60/120, internal raw, timecode etc and internal ND's, locking IBIS, basically what the R5C should have been, a full-tilt "video DSLR". No need for an EVA2.

Then meld the S1 and S1R together into a single replacement model that's like the S5II but with full-width 4K60, combo screen mechanism, and the bigger battery and better EVF.

There is plenty of need for an EVA replacement in a slightly smaller body. 

Firstly, it's going to be hard cramming all that in to a thin mirrorless body. Sure, you could do something like the Pocket6K Pro but if you are aiming for the next level up user, the professional, most do not like the form factor of DSLR's for video.

Panasonic needs a Sony FX6 level camera in their lineup. The FX6 is hugely popular for any work where an Alexa Mini is too expensive or not required. FX6's are everywhere and easily dominate the Pro market globally. Why wouldn't Panasonic want a slice of that pie? 

Do you know what most Camera Operators that shoot on FX6's also buy? FX30's and FX3's as B Cameras. 

You know what else these operators are starting to purchase? Genuine lenses for Autofocus. Lots of shooters doing sport content (which is a huge market) are now wanting AF as the new systems are very reliable. For the best performance, they are buying genuine lenses. So, with an FX6 purchase, you will likely get an FX3 or FX30 purchase AND two or three G Master lenses. 

Panasonic would be absolutely crazy to not chase that market.

If you want a hybrid camera, id skip the FX30. I love it as a video camera but wouldn't want it to be my only camera if I needed stills as well. 

If you take video seriously and don't really need stills, the FX30 would be my pick even over the newly announced S5II....and A7IV.

I'd also be very careful of taking advice from anyone that says the FX30's image quality is 'vomit'. This obviously indicates they have no idea what they are doing.

12 hours ago, independent said:

You know there’s a design team for these cameras? For your laptop? Nevermind, you probably have a Dell 

Yep but I don't care. Function over form every day of the week. 

'Filmaking' has become all about the pose factor recently. 

If the way a camera looks deters you buying it tge your priorities are wrong and I'd question your ability too. 

10 hours ago, independent said:

Man, Panasonic and Sony cameras are just butt ugly (aside from FX-3)

Seriously?

Who the hell cares and why. It's a tool, if its nice to use and produces great images, what does looks matter?

4 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

no AF, no IBIS, too bulky and apc-s only, old EF mount, but yeah they got couple of things extremly right. I wish BM would join l-mount alliance and add some proper tech for their cameras (AF and IBIS). 

Yep, BMD needs a mirrorless mount. Im guessing the next iteration of Pocket camera will have L mount. Can't see them getting RF or E Mount. 

The FX30 is close to perfect for me but I too would love an eND and slightly larger 1000+nit screen. I'd be happy for it to be a little bigger to accomodate a 4-5" touch screen and get rid of the buttons on the back. A touch screen would mean they need a menu system like BMD which Sony are far off being able to produce it seems. 

Just now, A_Urquhart said:

I would highly recommend the Leftfield system by Bright Tangerine.

All the benefits of the Arri dovetail while also being just as quick to engage and disengage as the VCT system. With Leftfield, there is no sliding the camera on to the dovetail. You just place it where you want it and lock the lever but then you have full front to back sliding capabilities for adjustment. 

 

 

 

Edit: sorry just saw your comment on the Kessler being expensive......Leftfield is not cheap!

I would highly recommend the Leftfield system by Bright Tangerine.

All the benefits of the Arri dovetail while also being just as quick to engage and disengage as the VCT system. With Leftfield, there is no sliding the camera on to the dovetail. You just place it where you want it and lock the lever but then you have full front to back sliding capabilities for adjustment.