newfoundmass

27 minutes ago, Django said:

Not if you're on gimbal, Vlogging or certain run & gun situations. I literally just watched a video from a pretty popular solo YouTuber at a music trade show in Berlin where the entire footage was ruined because of constant wild hunting. What do you know, it was shot on a GH5. Sure you can claim its user fault but there is no denying that Panasonics DFD AF is a major setback when compared to the competition. And like it or not, strong AF is crucial for some types of shooters. 

You absolutely can use manual focus in all of those situations. I do all the time. 

And no one is arguing that Panasonic AF is behind everyone else. But a camera that overheats and is unusable is a far bigger issue than a camera that lacks PDAF. That's just a fact. One can still be used, while the other cannot. 

With that said, Panasonic AF is usable once you learn it's weaknesses and how to adapt. Single point AF is pretty reliable in real world use, to the point where I use it while filming pro-wrestling and that's pretty unpredictable. The only time it really struggles is in low light during ring entrances, but I combat that using a LED. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Here he claims he can cure autism and multiple sclerosis. This video is utterly insane.

And the third part, just to include it all.

Like I said, I appreciate his camera channel, but he's deep into the pseudo nutrition/health grift. He has no medical background at all and thus shouldn't be giving out medical advice, like how to cure diseases ranging from Erectile dysfunction to brain cancer. If you want to encourage a healthier lifestyle or diet, fine, but his stuff goes well beyond that. 

It's very hard to find much background information on the guy, as he has invested a lot of money into SEO by having seemingly endless websites for himself. Anything critical of him is buried deep in search results. In addition to articles that criticize his stuff, there are also accounts of him hiring stand-ins to appear while he films material for his promotional videos. It's a bit disingenuous to be promoting yourself as this healer and motivational speaker while using staged footage of you giving speeches to paid stand-ins.

The description for this video has a lot more information, too.

A lot of the more ridiculous stuff that used to get made fun of on Reddit, or were completely obliterated by science blogs, have been deleted. Example: https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/21/i-thought-id-seen-it-all-epigenetic-birth-control

My guess is RED is probably trying to force them into "license" the technology, presumably like they did with Apple. 

Is there any benefit to using N-RAW over ProRes RAW? 

1 hour ago, Django said:

..and no overheat doesn't matter much either if all your footage is OOF. so yeah ying-yang.

You can still operate a camera without autofocus. You can't operate a Canon camera if it's overheating. They aren't remotely similar.

1 hour ago, Django said:

from the testing so far R7 seems to manage all the way up to 2 hours in 4Kfine making overheating a non issue.

No one has had the camera long enough to do any real stress tests, re: overheating. Dan Watson said it's about 50 minutes. Virtually every other video has said the same, outside of Gordon Laing who did a test indoors under controlled conditions. Even Canon said it will last about an hour in 4K fine mode. 🤷‍♂️

The only real thing holding Panasonic back is the autofocus. It's what the market demands, whether us Panny users care about it or not. If they had comparable autofocus to Sony or Canon I think they'd have lured a lot of people away. They are superior video cameras in every other way.

4 minutes ago, Django said:

Panasonic users just love to plug their cameras in every Canon thread. 

The funniest is they usually conveniently leave out any mention of AF.

I mean, autofocus doesn't really matter if a camera can't be used due to overheating. I think these are decent offerings, but you don't have to be too positive or too negative, it's okay to be neutral and take a wait and see approach.

Canon deserves every bit of criticism it gets, but people are being a little too critical here. If the 4K Fine mode overheats and makes the camera inoperable like it did with the R5 and R6 I'll change my tune, but an hour of 7K downsampled to 4K 24/30p with dual pixel autofocus for $1500 seems reasonable. If you shoot HD or absolutely need 60P then this camera isn't for you, which is a bummer, but that's how it is sometimes. 

These definitely aren't cameras for my kind of work, but neither are the Sony or Fuji APS-C offerings. It doesn't mean they're awful, it just means they're not for me.

He says a lot of stuff that I disagree with, his entire health/motivational speaker stuff screams grifter to me, and his backstory feels a bit suspect, but I generally enjoy his camera channel. 

Some of that stuff is genuinely ingenious. 

double post 🤦‍♂️

8 hours ago, Django said:

4K60p (1:1) = 1.6x + 1.8x crop

I think the crop is 1.8, not 1.8 in addition to the 1.6 crop. I feel like that'd be utterly insane, even by Canon standards. Dan Watson was quite complimentary of it. 

12 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Saw the Jared Polin preview and he said the R7 didn't overheat on a hot (demo) day shooting video all day and there is no time limit on recording 😎 Also looks to have dual sd card recording for video and C.LOG3.

I don't think anyone had the camera for long enough to do any in depth overheating tests. 

Overheating seems to be an issue in downsampled 4K, with Canon saying you can get about an hour before it overheats. Pixel binned 4K 60p also apparently overheats. 4K 60p in crop mode apparently doesn't overheat and has a sharper image than the pixel binned 4K 60p that does. 

They hit my feed at midnight. R7 looks like a very solid camera, with downsampled 7K in 4K 30p. 4K 60p though isn't downsampled, but doesn't have an added crop unlike the R10 which has I think a 1.8x crop in 4K 60p.

$1500 seems reasonable. 

4 hours ago, Django said:

If he's serious about making a film then it makes absolute sense. I love mirrorless for practical reasons but for that cinematic aesthetic nothing really beats ARRI, RED, VENICE & VARICAM paired with cine glass imo. There is a reason why they are standards in big productions and not an A7S3, R5C, GH5 etc.

Hopefully he will share with us what pushed him in that direction!

Big productions don't use mirrorless hybrids for a multitude of reasons. Why would you if you have the budget to use any camera that you want?

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Decided to get a proper RAW cine camera. It was between RED and Blackmagic. The RED seems to have more mojo, especially the older EPIC and Scarlet. I am also trying a RAVEN out.

The older REDs are not expensive now. Paid £1790 for an EPIC-X, with 5K 120fps RAW.

But when building it out, that's when the costs start rising.

But for under $3500 you can definitely get a good kit.

It's about the dynamic range and RED raw for me. The colour science is also very nice.

Keep us updated on your findings, thoughts, etc. I'd be interested in video comparisons, etc.!

I'm very interested in his thoughts/impressions!

I know that 4K is, for a lot of projects, the minimum now, but it really would be unacceptable if the GH6 didn't have excellent 1080p. With the processing power that camera has there's absolutely no reason for it to be anything less. Looking forward to your findings @Mmmbeats

I don't know if you all have been following him on Twitter but...

ANDREW REID HAS GONE TO THE DARK SIDE AND GOTTEN A RED!

2022 just won't cease with the surprises!

48 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

I misread the GH6 price as $2700, $2000 isn't as bad.

The S1 has all the things you mentioned besides prores though, it's not unique to M43 anymore.

The S1 lacks 4K 120p, four channels of audio, USB-SSD recording, timecode in/out, and coming soon 4K 120p RAW to the Atomos Ninja 5+.

The only thing that Panasonic can really be faulted for is leaving out phase detect auto focus and MAYBE internal ND. The streaking issue is also unacceptable, and I hope that they fix it. But they really put everything they could into the camera, and I say that as someone that isn't itching to buy it for a couple of reasons.

It will be a while before a reasonably priced full frame hybrid will be able to match all that the GH6 offers. And when one does, it will probably be a Panasonic camera to boot. Most of the others seem more focused on resolution than functionality.

I also don't understand why people come into threads about M43 cameras and constantly mention full frame. We get it, they're not full frame cameras and there are great full frame cameras available. It's okay to keep that out of threads dedicated to smaller sensor cameras.

2 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

It is almost $3000, I'd be close to getting an A7S3 for just a bit more used. The BM pocket is $1000 and has internal RAW and prores. I get the Pana is a hybrid camera but why no internal RAW or auto focus? If I need IBIS I can just use the S1 which is almost half the price of the GH6 used, only thing really missing is prores and 4k 120p.

You are right full frame has pretty much caught up but M43 isn't pushing enough to stay ahead IMO. I bought the GH5 for that exact reason and its the same reasons I am not getting a GH6, combined with the price tag of course.

The A7siii is $1300 more than the GH6 and has less video features. Simple things like no waveforms, no ability to load LUTs, no anamorphic desqueeze, no 4K DCI, no shutter angle, opengate recording, etc. Add in internal ProRes and there's a lot going for the GH6 and it's the $2200 price tag.

Also, I suspect that a lot of the R&D is cross compatible between their M43 and FF cameras. Unless the market completely bottoms out I think they'll continue with M43, even if it doesn't match their 2013-2017 output. The day will come, I'm sure, but the demise of M43 has been greatly exaggerated. 

There are a lot of things to critique the GH6 about (the streaking, for example, is unacceptable), but of the major camera companies there's no camera in its price range that comes close to its capabilities. It's impressive even if you factor in smaller companies like ZCam and BMD's offerings in its price range, even though they try to push even further as they try to gain market share. 

Hopefully Panasonic fixes and improves it even more. But it's still an impressive release. 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

But I do read and respect your posts, so continue as usual please.

First, I want to say that I'm glad you're back. I wish more of the old guard (except Jon Pais, fuck that guy) would come back!

I think where Kye gets annoyed is that, you reiterate why you can't understand why anyone would get a M43 camera even after people have specifically stated what they like about the system and why they are invested in it. When you do that it feels like you kind of completely disregard what we've said and our opinions. 

55 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

Sony hasn't done any M43 cameras, they could probably have an edge over Panasonic with their auto focus. But they probably think the market is too small or dying in general. 

Sony was never a member of the M43 partnership, so they definitely wouldn't decide in 2022 to begin releasing M43 cameras.

57 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

I feel the innovation is really lacking with M43 Panasonic and Fuji, also Sony has put no effort into their S35 line up, while their cutting edge full frame stuff has gotten really expensive. 

I don't think it's innovation that's lacking, M43 led in innovation for years, it's just that everyone caught up. Still, their cameras offer tools that the competition doesn't. But in a market where auto focus is so very important, that doesn't really matter to a lot of users.

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

You can buy FF cameras now for less than m4/3. They have lost all their advantages of a cheaper price.

Lenses are generally cheaper than their full frame counterparts. They're also smaller, as I stated earlier. Even buying third party FF lenses you'd still spend less on the M43 versions. Are they at fast as their FF counterparts? No, but that's not the most important thing for a lot of people 

I believe that the M43 system, particularly Panasonic, needs to improve in order for the system to continue. I'm uneasy about Panasonic's long term success because of the AF and how important it is to the market, even if it's not the most important thing to me. But people have proclaiming M43's death since before the GH4. 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

And now the top M4/3 are as big or bigger size and weight wise as FF stuff.

The bodies do. The lenses, especially the zooms, are a different story. A GH6 body with battery, memory card and 12-35mm lense weighs 1,128 g. The A7IV with battery, memory card, and 24-70mm is 1,544. 

It's the same story with the other zooms, too. In fact the size gap grows significantly. A 70-200mm FF lense alone weighs about the same as a GH6 with a 35-100mm.

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Why would an average buyer even consider one now. Not counting worse low light, not many AF fast lenses, low MP count and still less DOF, I know people will say they are really the same, bull shit. There is a reason people shoot MF, and People shoot an 8x10 over a 4x5, etc., better DOF.

I mean, it depends on the user. In video? All of those things have workarounds on M43. Low light? Add more light. The lenses all auto focus pretty quickly on systems with good AF. The GH6 has the same MP count as many full frame cameras doesn't it? You can get nice DOF. Photography? Low light isn't as big of an issue. Auto focus works great. MP? Both Panny and Olympus have added high resolution modes. Have you seen the 100mp images the GH6 can produce? Incredible stuff. And the stabilization can't be beat. 

M43 isn't for you. That's OK. 

46 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I will give you credit but I am still never going to buy a M4/3 camera again in my life.

I understand. A lot of people won't, unfortunately. I go back and forth on it myself, honestly. But there really are positives to the system, and they don't get nearly as much love as they deserve. 

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

My Sony A7s II is smaller than my GH5 was by a mile. And their better lenses hardly weigh anything and are amazingly small. Sure, if you want a 600mm lens a M4/3 is smaller, but it will be a slower lens to boot and cost close to the same money.

For a lot of work using primes isn't feasible, and you need to use zooms. It's in those situations where the size difference really stands out. The 12-35mm is 305 g, while the Sony 24-70mm is 886 g. The 35-100mm is 357 g, while the Sony 70-200 is 1045 g. The 100-400mm f/4-6.3 is 985 g, the Sony 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 is 2115 g. That's not even factoring in the length of them.

All of those lenses are also considerably cheaper than their Sony counterparts.

Also, if you wanted to get a 600mm full frame equivalent lens for M43 you would go with the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 300mm f/4. It weighs 1475 g and costs $2,849.99. The Sony FE 600mm f/4 meanwhile weighs 3040 g and costs $12,998.00.

You were saying? 😉