canonlyme

On 2/24/2023 at 2:41 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Clearly overhyped, but with strong long term potential to destroy the planet, AI natural language chatbots have taken 2023 by storm. I admit, it's an entertaining spectacle.

They're fantastic at certain things and it's nice to see a new type of tool born, but I can't help feeling it is capable of wildly fantasying about things that never happened. I also think there is no way a large company like Microsoft or Google will truly let this technology off the hook and it will be incredibly heavily censored. This means first prize in AI will go to a startup and you better sell your Google shares right now.

But should you trust it? EOSHD sets out to find out, by putting it through a camera nerd exam.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/hows-ais-camera-knowledge-unhinged-chatgpt-stalks-eoshd-and-makes-up-controversies

(It doesn't go well)

Good points, from what I have seen from the Innovation industry, they are letting start-ups have their share and fun through several innovation plattforms and then simply just buy the best ones, so I can't help but believe that some of the big players, Microsoft or Tesla, will benefit the most. Sadly I have no money to invest anyway, though 😄  

Talking about softness with the S5, I am happy to show some images from my stay in italy at a local chestnut and wine fest (chestnuts 1 Euro, Plastic Cup of loca wine 1 Euro) which I shot with the S1 (same settings as S5) and the minolta 50mm 1.4. I focused only by hand, not perfectly, and I believe I had the ISO at 3200 even. The noise together with some extra grain & softness is quite pleasing I think. Would not throw away the footage! 😄

@mercer since I haven't seen you / been on here for a while: How is it going with your minolta lens journey? 🙂 I am contemplating buying a 100mm 2.5 minolta to complete my minolta set. If I remember correctly you and your friend on the harbour sold me on some of the minolta lenses couple years back. 

3 minutes ago, canonlyme said:

I really recommend you try out the AVCHD in the gx80 to compare it to the fhd in the g7 🙂 I know it's not that relevant anymore because few people shoot the g7/g85/gx80 but I think the AVCHD is being slept on compared to the regular mp4 (sorry for calling it h264, both seem to be h264 in the end). 

Never mind just saw that you actually liked the article. Also for saying you were wrong, you were not, I just misunderstood your post 🙂

On 10/21/2022 at 11:41 AM, PannySVHS said:

4K on the GX85 slamdunks any HD AVCHD flavour on it, especially the brittle HD 60p. Also, the 24 to 30p HD on the GX85 is by far not as nice as on the G6 and G7, which both have a very smooth but high resolving HD. GX85 HD is brittle by comparison. What article btw?:)

 

I really recommend you try out the AVCHD in the gx80 to compare it to the fhd in the g7 🙂 I know it's not that relevant anymore because few people shoot the g7/g85/gx80 but I think the AVCHD is being slept on compared to the regular mp4 (sorry for calling it h264, both seem to be h264 in the end). 

On 10/21/2022 at 11:41 AM, PannySVHS said:

4K on the GX85 slamdunks any HD AVCHD flavour on it, especially the brittle HD 60p. Also, the 24 to 30p HD on the GX85 is by far not as nice as on the G6 and G7, which both have a very smooth but high resolving HD. GX85 HD is brittle by comparison. What article btw?:)

 

You are mostly right, but also partially wrong. Of course 4k is best. But AVCHD offers by far the best 60P on the gx80, it's not even close. AVCHD is also a much more highly compressed codec compared to h264 so it's the best codec for full hd on the gx80 as well. If you wanna keep stuff simple, I recommend shooting Full HD AVCHD with the gx80 on anything not job related. I owned this camera for 5 years and squeezed out every bit of quality u can get out of the camera. 
Have you actually used the AVCHD 60p? It slams the h264 60p by lenghts.... 

On 6/7/2022 at 1:09 AM, herein2020 said:

With the S5 I was simply throwing away too much soft footage

I doubt that getting soft footage with the s5 is to blame on the camera.. 

On 12/29/2021 at 8:51 PM, PannySVHS said:

Improvement would have to be seen when heavily graded. The thin AVCHD codec with its low bit rate should show so much mare artefacts than ALL Intra. Also in movements more mushiness due to compression.

you should check on my article, avchd is actually a more compressed codec rendering in higher quality. I tried out avchd in hd and it was to my eye by far the best quality, especially in 1080 60p

On 3/23/2022 at 5:10 PM, PPNS said:

looks good man! some things could be simplified in the edit, and if you had a bigger crew you couldve polished some shots a bit more. glad to see some people are actually trying on here

It'd be interesting to know which parts of the edit you would simplify 🙂 Thank you! We didn't have any crew so it was natural lighting only. I think I would have used some more elements to make the lighting more pleasing. Also there were big problems with IR pollution and red skin tones. Which made me buy an IR-Cut filter 😄

After reading that the minolta mc 28mm 3.5 lens is a secret keeper that's often overlooked due to its speed, I was really pleased by it's sharpness and look after some lens tests. Payed 30 bucks for it. Which is still a normal price today. When shooting a short film in Norway, I wanted to challenge myself with just one lens. I went with the 28mm 3.5 on my pocket 4k since that would be about 35mm in super 35, which scorsese for example loves and other filmmakers have sticked to during longer periods of a film. I find the 28mm 3.5 a tiny bit sharper than the minolta 28mm 2.8's I have tested. 

Well here is the result and I am quite happy with some of the images. 

I know this is probably not anywhere close to the real quality, but if anyone wants to watch the video on a phone i shared it on instagram. Feel free to have a look or if you want high quality screengrabs tell me or alternatively I can upload it to vimeo. 


 

On 1/20/2020 at 4:55 PM, Andrew Reid said:

It's a blazing lens. Glorious. Still totally undervalued. I got my Canon EF version for £200. The AF even works well on the Fringer Nikon Z adapter (pictured below) for stills. Not so much video as the AF motors are clunky and old, very noisy... Optically though, it's glorious.

 

Andrew, will I be able to adapt it to the pocket 4k? Is there a mount which I might find it cheaper in on ebay? 

Cheers 

On 7/6/2016 at 2:20 AM, PannySVHS said:

Shutter shock happens with the mechanical shutter within the range of 125-250 shutters. It is absent when using the electronic shutter.

 GX8 and GX85 seem to be the first Lumix cameras not to exhibit this unwanted feature when in mechanical shutter mode.

I realized shutter shock on a higher shutter speed of 1/1000 when on a tripod and with a 3 second delay too. Electronic shutter fixed it. 

Came across this video, which pretty much shows an external recorder for the gx80 / g85 doesn't really do much. Maybe they crippled it more from the g7 to g85??

37 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

@canonlyme GX85 produces a great image if graded or with right in camera look. I don´t like the HD as much as from G7 or G6, with a bit too much aliasing to my taste. In super low light noise reduction makes everything mushy. Other than that great camera and my to go little film friend. Now, if it´s ok for you to share your video, would be very cool to see your colors fly in motion.:) cheers

Of course, I will share the video. I agree with you. Though with AVCHD I did not see my image break apart nearly as fast as I am used to. But knowing the noise level I also tried overexposing 1 or 2 stops, so I exposed to the right while still trying to fill the histogram. 

1 hour ago, heart0less said:

I can fully agree - both GX80 and G80 seem to be great B-cams or a 'throw-it-in-your-backpack' alternatives, which video creators didn't really notice.
IMHO, they could be easily intercut with GHx series and I doubt anyone would notice.

I like your results very much, they look quite similar to what GHAlex offers - soft, yet vibrant and natural look.
Congrats!

Thanks Indeed I made a vibrance note, because it is a great way to increase the look without going to far. I used a key to pick the less saturated part, skipped the skin tones and desaturated the rest.   

Hey Guys,

Since starting in this forum I progressed from the GX80 to buying a Pocket 4k which I use for all documentary shoots and trying to built a showreel. 
Meanwhile, the non rigged out GX80 is way easier to take on trips and fun shoots and I still think it is one of the most underrated cameras in terms of price/performance.

For the last trip to Loen in Norway (where a rock falling into the lake caused a 70m wave extinguishing to villages in early 1900), I took the gx80. Normally I shoot CINE D with all settings around -2, but this time I decided to shoot a dialed down natural, and furthermore I heard on youtube that AVCHD supposedly holds up way better to grading. So I tested it and used the internal noise reduction and grain from davinci. 

What do you think? I am quite pleased with what I can get out of the 24mbit files, even with several nodes, vignettes etc. The opinion is well established that the Full HD on the gx80 seemed to look softer than on the g85 or g7. Even the slow-mo to me looks way better than what I am used to from the 24mbit 60p in mp4. 
Way easier to edit than 4k as well and easy on the storage. 

At 250 Dollars or Euros used, often including a lens, I think this camera is still a steal, especially for people in the mft ecosystem who need a second/third camera. In my backpocket I had a tascam dr05 to record audio and a short interview with a habitant of one of those villages. 

 

3 minutes ago, heart0less said:

If I needed / could afford Atomos, I would've definitely gotten GH5 first or just rented them together.

( :

And: sadly, you can't be in 4:3 and Cine-D at the same time.

Cine-D is available only in Video Mode, which gives you 16:9 by default.

Makes sense. The gh5 seems cheap for anamorphic, the gx80 seems cheap for a small gh5

19 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

OK, well I've got a solution for you.

The live view to a phone works while recording the burst.

So your options are to use the free Panasonic Image App on your phone as a monitor or use an app like Gmonitor (Android or iOS) which is about $5 and is a more dedicated monitor app for showing the live stream.

There is some lag but it is actually pretty marginal and definitely usable.

Far, far more usable than the non-functioning HDMI port.

This is a very good workaround. Sad that I can't use my feelworld ma6 for this, but I will try it out.

18 hours ago, heart0less said:

 

Not saying it's the best solution, but maybe you'll like it more?

Great insight. I have shot parts of my documentary yesterday and I instinctively felt like shooting 4k 16 to 9 with cine D settings that I can match with gh5 cine D shots. I also feel like, in theory, cropping the 16 9 shouldn't hurt too much at 4k. 
Another idea I had, is what happens when you are in 4:3 cine D and add an external recorder like the atomos. This one doesn't need the camera to record at the same time. Shouldn't that work? 

On 3/6/2019 at 11:52 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Let me have a look at my GX80 when I get back at the weekend and I'll get back to you.

 

Can you tell me what happens if you use Panasonic's Image App when doing this?

What does it display in the live view aspect ratio wise and is it interrupted during the burst?

Is the interruption (or not) the same when you instigate the burst from the app as it is when you instigate it from the camera's own shutter button?

 

Yes, so it blocks it before you even enable the burst. I do not have the app but I can check :). Once you enable 4k photo mode, no matter which kind, the monitor shows white writing on black that 4k photomode is enabled, so only the lcd screen shows the image, and once you go back from 4k photo mode you see the 4:3 image for a second on the monitor before it goes back to 16 9. Happy to give extra information. 
Thank you! 

On 3/3/2019 at 5:41 PM, mercer said:

Hmm... that’s a tough one. If you’re going to go with Minolta, it almost makes sense to buy a Lens Turbo II specifically designed for Minolta, then you can have access to the whole Rokkor catalog... speedboosted with IBIS. The 28mm f/2 and 35mm 1.8 are dream lenses.

Anamorphic must be fun with the G85?

Nikon also made an old 58mm 1.4 that you can probably get from Japan for a decent price.

And if you are looking to spend a touch more, the Voigtlander 58mm 1.4 in Nikon mount could work for you... but they’re like $400. But the 20mm and 40mm are supposed to be excellent lenses as well, so you could build a kit.

Anamorphic is not really fun - I was happy to read that 4:3 photo mode is supported at 30p 4k, which would have worked well for all slow-mo shots, but found out that the hdmi is blocked. It only works during 16 9 for proper desqueeze and focusing. So basically it is really more a normal 16 9 camera like all the others in that regard. Gh5 anamorphic modes are sweet though...

On 2/20/2019 at 8:58 AM, John Matthews said:

So, I took a short video of stained pine furniture off in the distance at "-5" (NR off, ISO 200); then, at "0" in the same conditions. My conclusions are NR "-5" has more detail, but "0" has less noise. I tried the same at ISO 3200 and the results were more exagerated, drastically smudging the fine grain of the wood at NR "0". It might be a case specific to the GX80/85 and not other Panasonic cameras. Also, there may be a happy medium between the two settings.

I cannot speak for the GH5, but the GX80 seems quite good. What setting of NR have you been using?

 

On a side note, when comparing the GX85's 1080p on DPReview.com to other camera's 1080p, the results are quite bad for the GX85. Personally, I've found the 1080p out of the camera quite good and makes me wonder if Panasonic readjusted their NR setting on other cameras. However, I'm not quite sure what setting DPReview used in their video comparisons. Here's a link:

 https://***URL removed***/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx85-gx80/6

To be honest, I would be really careful with trusting someone else on a simple test like this. I do not trust them too much. 

@BTM_Pix 2019 and I am still using my beloved and underrated gx80. The main problem for professional use is that the HDMI output get's blocked during photo burst mode. I would like to shoot 4/3 4k with the burst mode but when enabled the HDMI function gets blocked, not really, rather there come a sign transfered by the camera that photo mode is activated.

This is for shooting 4/3 anamorphic. Funnily enough, when I do switch back to the normal mode, I see the external monitor showing the correct image in 4/3 desqueezed for one split second before going back to the heavily cropped 16 9. (with anamorphic, this is 32 to 9). So I know that the camera could do this, but they do not allow it. Do you think, from your experience, there is any chance that the HDMI output could be manually enabled or hacked? 

cheers

22 hours ago, Ian Edward Weir said:

for my workflow, it's kinda tedious and not for everyone.

Thanks for your response. That is such a good insight!

When you are an artist, as a filmmaker, you find your own way of doing it and if it works and you have the time for it, I see no problem in this at all. In contrary, I think it is really nice if someone takes such passion and time for something, unless you would find out a much quicker way to do the same.

Yes, I chose minoltas not for their price, but I looked at comparisons of images and their special way to treat colors just pleased me the best. Now I am happy I could afford the whole lens set without spending too much. Something that vintage lenses do is they give a special treatment to colors, where if I would take the same effort in post to try to create something special and tweak around a lot, it would probably turn out garbage until I become much better at grading. 

Did you encounter any problems with bringing the clips from HLG to rec709/premiere color space? Because the way that HLG is filmed it introduces a greenish color tint from what I have learned. 
 

Hey Ian, 

I think you have inspired me for my next documentary. I will try to recreate paintings of places in real life using anamorphic. What I am especially interested in is the grading.

I can imagine there are some important workflow steps for you, if you graded in davinci resolve. I really love the look and some tips to get to this "painting like" look would be greatly appreciated. This will also be my first project in Davinci, so I think I will try to get everything as good as I can in camera, exposure and white balance, so that I can edit without any grading in adobe and then grade the finally used, picture locked clips. I will try to use the Color management tools and tutorials in davinci as well. I also will try to use HLG combined with Cinelike D. And am going to use kowa for b&h with minolta lenses. 28mm, 50mm, 135mm, 70-210 mm. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Great movies. 

The same thing with the spots actually happened to me in india. Luckily I was doing hyperlapses so I could easily correct the spots in lightroom. Lesson learned, I always have the blower and a cloth with me now.

Cheers, 
Julius

23 minutes ago, mercer said:

You are free to disagree as much as you want. I am just explaining my experiences with the cameras using the exact same lenses. 

Also I don’t believe the amount of stops the IBIS can correct for is even given for either camera. Perhaps the heavier weight of the G85 and ergonomics made the difference. Either way, your experiences and mine are equally anecdotal.

So whatever...

The case is, that people have without any proof made up something about IBIS 2, urging other people to buy a more expensive camera without need. The arguments should proof that a different IBIS has been installed, not the other way around. 

On the other hand, if you had both cameras and tried them out, I appreciate that, because you are not just believing something without reason but you have tested it. In the end, you prefered the g85 for stabilization and that is totally fine. I on the other hand bough a cage and wooden grips and can make shots that look close to my gimbal, but with more "life" to it. Might even consider turning the IBIS off for certain styles, you know... 

I still find it a bit puzzling for getting flamed as disrespectful when someone calls a video shit in every aspect, not being able to discuss it on a more in depth level, which I have offered. This is only demanding me for being a bit tickly and saying: well, could you do it better?

2 hours ago, kye said:

 

Unless we design a machine that we mount a camera to that puts the camera through a completely controlled and repeatable set of vibrations and then compare the results from different cameras with identical fields-of-view, shutter angles, and both centre and distribution of mass, then we will never really know how different systems compare.

It seems you know what you are talking about from a technical perspective. I do not agree from a marketing perspective. I generally would expect a camera manufacturer to market every single innovation they can make. And from a cost perspective, why bother innovating the stabilization system without need? Each innovation has some amount of fixed costs to it. 

After all, the focus should still be that I have proven more reasons to believe they have the same system installed, with software causing the newer models to work better with Dual stablization. But as I move on to more heavy rigs, I do not need to make up for lower weight, so I am fine. 

Grips and rigs are less then 100 bucks, and will make the gx80 function better then the tascam dr-05 plus lavalier 100 bucks. I am not gloryfying the gx80, at some point I will have to move on. But I do not see anything except for the gh5 anamorphic modes which really make me want to invest more in something that is losing value as fast as cameras. my lenses in total are now worth more then 10 times the price. @mercer keep me updated if you get hold of the bmmcc, rigged up this poses as similar david/goliath as the gx80/gh5 does for me.

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk about Dual IS Two but I do know the IBIS on the GX85 required me to use the digital IS to get the same level of steadiness that I was getting with just sensor IBIS with the G85.

I guess one could argue that I’ve been shooting more handheld between the two tests so I have a steadier hand now?

I suppose that’s possible but I also suppose that with the next generation of Dual IS, sensor IBIS also improved... it truly seems like the latter to me since I was thoroughly unimpressed with the IBIS from the GX85 and the G85 felt more like Olympus IBIS.

I disagree, the g85 was published very little after the gx80. And if this was the case, they would market it. I already felt susipicious that the "IBIS 2" comments where coming from articles and reviews that do nothing else then quoting official specs.

I think you should just look at the source I have provided, which suggest/uncover there is no doubt about what I said. On some of the g85 models, dual I.S. 2 came by installing a firmware update, you can find the thread on dpreview. There is no IBIS 2 found on any official website and I will continue to treat this as a rumour. If ther was a new IBIS system, they would have sure marketed it. They did all they could to advertise dual i.s 2, which to me seems quite unrelevant as I only own one pana lens. 

I see a huge differens in IBIS performance when using my heavy sigma 18-35 to small adapted lenses. 340 grams between the two cameras and a worse grip pose a huge difference to micro shakes entering the stabilization.