kye

Let's compromise and meet in the middle, and admit 1.5x is the "most cinematic". 

I was thinking the other day about how almost all lenses look best wide open.
So if it's a full frame F1.4 lens you see most clearly the rendering it has wide open rather than say, F5.6.
The advantage of a 2x crop sensor is that you get to shoot wide open and see more detail in backgrounds.
You take, say a 10mm F2.0 micro four thirds lens, it has the look of F2 but the deeper DOF as well so the setting isn't completely creamed out. If you have a really beautiful setting, you don't want it to be invisible and just bokeh in every shot.
So you could stop your full frame lens down to F4 or even F8 but then the whole character of the lens is lost and they all look uniformly pretty much the same beyond F4.
I think it begs a comparison... I might do one soon.
Take a Super 16mm 26mm F1.1 lens on a GH6, and compare it to a 50mm F1.2 on full frame, and also the same 50mm but stopped down to F2.2 to match the equivalent aperture of the S16mm lens at F1.1 wide open.
On the otherhand, the advantage of full frame might reveal itself more clearly when the focus distance is further out, and the subject remains a little bit separated from the environment, whereas on the 2x crop camera they'd be on the same focus plane, 'infinity' might start from about 3m outwards.
I understand the appeal of medium format, 65mm, large format cinema cameras, full frame, and so on...
Just think that 2x crop is not without merit and can even serve the story better in many cases.

I'm definitely tempted by the 12-60 2.8-4 a lot and may end up snagging one if I get a gh6 kit or something. They can be pretty pricey used, but it's a very nice lens.

I wanted to super zoom of the 14-140 to try on my BMPC but have ended up using it on my g9 a bit too.

I'm thinking I'll grab either the 12-140 or the 12-60mm 2.8-4 in time for my next trip, whenever that ends up being.  If I add it to the cost of the trip then maybe the wife won't notice!
They're similar in size, and I'm not sure how much I would miss the extra extension TBH, but a bit of extra low-light might come in handy perhaps.  Although there is a small difference in price...  

The tips for networking I've learned for networking in the corporate world (which is likely to be broadly similar) are:
Be brief - people like it when you respect their time Say something in the message that is unique to them - this shows them you haven't copy/pasted to a million people Tell them why they might contact you Tell them how to contact you Tell them how to check out your previous work A message as simple as "Hi - I loved your work on project X, I do sound on similar projects.  I'd love to work with you - if you have something coming up get in touch! <link to bio>".  
What I learned about networking:
People hire people they get along with, skills are necessary but are a secondary consideration When meeting people, establish rapport with the other person first, ask questions about their own work and projects, don't talk about yourself or pitch unless they ask If you can solve a problem for them or give them advice (that is welcome!) then you'll stand out and be seen as useful If they ask about your work, don't embellish or diminish it - successful people can often tell when people are bending the truth (even on gut-feel) and its an instant fail Focus on understanding their situation and challenges and try to help You probably know much of this, but in case you didn't, and also for the lurkers, thought I'd elaborate.

It's true, the lenses are where MFT really sticks out. 

I've gotten one of the Panasonic 14-140's recently to pair with the OG BMPC but it really is a valuable lens on any MFT camera. I got the second version which is a better rated lens. It's also really cheap if you wait and find a good deal.

It’s impossible to have a one size fits all LUT or else we would all be buying it. 
 
There’s so much variation in lighting and even sensor to sensor copy variation. Most people don’t realise that the color of a lens is usually DIFFERENT you shoot it wide open compared to three stops down. 
 
There’s no magic bullet for this. AI can maybe take over the color balancing at some point. Maybe. 

Not sure about the first part of your statement there Mark but agree with the second.
Lumix’s option for the S5ii and S1H is not great and I recently took a look at Nikon’s on the basis I might be going there for video (possibly) on top of the stills (definitely) and from the examples of theirs, it was horrendous.
I’m not sure why they don’t just pay someone with clearly far more skill than they do for this kind of thing as after all, what would it cost (very little) and we’re talking global releases here.
I’m sure if any brand popped out a stellar conversion LUT and a series of great conversion LUTS, they’d sell more cameras. Which is kind of the point is it not, to sell more stuff?!
I am interested in this topic, though not quite to the level of some, but will be exploring it more over my off season whether I stick with Lumix or go Nikon for my video needs. Especially if I go Nikon actually as I’d be starting from scratch and at a place I am mostly happy (or know what I need to do) with Lumix.

I don’t find the tone condescending at all. 
And color correction can work for opportunistic shots just as well. Maybe even better.
I see so many LUTs being advertised packaged and sold and it’s actually not THAT hard to create your own unique individual look with only a little bit of effort.  
 
The thing no one seems to talk much about is MATCHING a look shot to shot. That’s where it gets difficult. And that’s where you are helped or hinder by the person shooting it. 

Leaving aside the condescending tone (really, we all need to learn color grading because we do not do it?), I agree with the OP that none of the default LUTs or transforms to REC709 are satisfactory and adjustments in post are almost always needed. And the examples are useful.
For the opportunistic video I shoot, for which it is impossible to set white balance manually and catch the shot, I use auto WB. And WB that is off is the number one problem with the ungraded but transformed clips. This is one reason why I shoot RAW, because WB adjustments are always needed. The examples given seem to be of studio shots with controlled lighting and time to set everything right in the camera, and so are good examples of the pure inadequacy of the transforms shot correctly (although one looks underexposed).
Generally, after transforms and WB adjustments I find saturation needs boosting as well as contrast, but skin tones are usually ok. For real RAW, sharpness needs tweaking too. The aim of course in my case is to mimic reality (the illusion of reality). None of this makes me an expert in color grading, and I am still learning some skills, but it has been enough to get positive "wows" from viewers seeing 8K 60 fps representations meant to convey they are there.

Sat having a quiet afternoon pint and browsing this thread.
What a great thread it’s been and I hope we can all wake it from its semi slumber.

I confess, I did once have it on me. But then was once out of breath and I inhaled too deeply near it, and accidently swallowed all of the cameras. 

People seem to be obsessed with nit-picking the colour science of cameras, but indicate they don't colour grade for one reason or another.
To me, even a few simple adjustments can improve the image so much more than the differences in colour science between manufacturers.  In fact, the image out of camera is like a plain sponge cake straight out of the oven - it's nice and the quality matters but it's far from the final result.
Colour grading is also talked about as being super complicated, and it can be, but it doesn't have to be.  Simple grades can still be really powerful.
Here are some examples from online, to show how much of a nice image is camera colour science and how much is colour grading.
ARRI  LOG:

With ARRIs LUT:

Grade:

The above grade was done using only white balance, the lift / gamma / gain controls, a vignette, log wheels, in that order.
To look at skin tones, the holy grail of camera colour science - here's a before and after....   before:

Then on top of the previous look, here's additional treatments to give it more of a film look.

These additional adjustments were: Gain (to lower exposure), white balance, saturation (lowered), darken shadows, in that order.
Which was inspired by this frame from Sicario:

Here's the video showing the whole grade: https://youtu.be/8GkcqEA72QM
 
Next example - SOOC:

with 709 conversion:

Grade:

Video link: https://youtu.be/fRDjEB6ryyQ
 
Next one - with 709 conversion:

Grade:

Video: https://youtu.be/OmBBYHMi_ek
 
Next one - SOOC:

With 709 conversion: 

Grade:

Video: https://youtu.be/UNW_8jcGJqw
 
There are literally more examples online to count, but I just focused on the more neutral looking colour grades, as the people doing dirty film grades probably don't care about skin tone minutia when they're going to pummel the image with Dehancer etc.
So, what's the TLDR?
Even half-a-dozen simple steps applied in addition to the manufacturers LUT can make a huge difference It's about making small changes to make the image look slightly nicer, and they add up The reason that fancy cameras look incredible is because the colourist takes the great work done on set and expands on it How do I get started?
Look at the image and work out what tool might improve it (if you have no idea, just try the basic ones) Wiggle whatever tool back and forth, deliberately going too far one way and too far the other way, then find the best spot Compare the adjustment you just make to see if it makes the image better or worse, if it's better then keep it, otherwise undo
(sometimes a really good adjustment will look completely natural and the 'before' will look like something is being applied to the image and is damaging it) Go to 1. Repeat until you can't find anything that makes the image look better. If you're using another image to inspire your look, then for step 1, just look at both images and work out what looks different about yours, and try and fix it.  Is it brighter? Darker?  More contrasty?  A different colour?  More or less saturated?  Adding a vignette to lighten your subject or darken the other areas of the frame is a good trick.  Looking to find anything in the frame that's distracting and de-emphasising it is really useful too - even just lowering the brightness or saturation can really stop it from fighting for attention.
Even by the time you've adjusted these basic tools, you'll be well ahead.  

You essentially have two separate routes:
- MotionCam based on Android for raw aquisition;
or
- iPhone 15 Pro Max;
not much else.

That camera is still too big to be my EDC camera. 

My impression is that it's really about the right part for the job.  Physically smaller resistors are easier to fit into smaller circuit boards and around small chips with lots of pins, etc, but also have lower power handling, so it really depends on the application.
I think over time most electronic devices have a relatively constant number of parts.  As time goes on and we want more features and higher performance you'd want to add more chips, but as we gradually work out common combinations of functions we create chips that combine many functions into one.
For example, back when CD players were the thing, there would be a chip that read the signal off the disc, a DAC chip that converted it into analog signal, and then an amplifier that drove the CD player outputs which go to the preamp or amplifier.  Later on they made digital processing chips that sat in-between the signal chip and the DAC.  Later on they made chips that did all 4 of those functions.
So regardless of the thing you want, there's likely to be a number of chips that you need to have, you'll need to make them work together physically and digitally (with the right configurations etc) and you'll need a controller chip to enable the user to instruct the chips what to do (change modes, change settings, record, stop, playback, etc).

Kinda tempted by this, as my SmallHD SDI monitor broke on a recent shoot. 
US$99 for the very fully featured app (even does automatic start/stop recordings! Following along with the ARRI/VENICE camera):
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/video-assist/id6464140279
Then for just a couple of hundred dollars, this does both SDI or HDMI capture to USB:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1572701-REG/lilliput_uc2018_sdi_hdmi_to_usb_3_0.html
https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/10/18/video-assist-pro-hdmi-sdi-video-monitor/ 
And would be used alongside an iPad Mini (6th Generation), that's only low US$300 ish on eBay

I think we are long since past the point where your average Sony/Canon/Nikon/Fuji/Whatever mirrorless is more than a few simple clicks or sliders away from being indistinguishable on-line.
I've seen so many side by side comparisons and can't see any difference at all such as in, "look how much better Y is compared with X!" and it looks near enough identical to me.
Same with the stills side. Waaaay too much emphasis on SOOC unedited files.
Comparing like for like across brands. Of course we can find an increasing proportional difference if we start comparing apples with kumquats...
Now things like difference in IBIS capability or wobble etc, some very clear differences, but modern sensors these days? Nah.

just an interesting sidenote: basically every belgian dp agrees that the standard arri r709 conversion is way too tame. thats why they always shoot with a custom lut (usually per project)

Very true. As someone who has fielded 5000+ enquiries and booked 800+ of them over 20+ years, I can identify with the process.
Provided your work is of a standard and potential clients can find you, it very much comes down to; price, first point of contact, followed by connection.
I have a question on all my contracts which asks why they specifically chose me and the result is a pretty consistent:
"Love your work, exactly what we are looking for", (happens prior to any form of contact or me even being aware of their existence, ie, them finding my on-line or social portfolios).
"Speed of response". If I am still awake and an enquiry comes in, I will at the very least personally acknowledge receipt and interest and a promise to get back to them at a specific time such as "first thing tomorrow AM". I know some use auto-response software, but I never do and keep it personal at all times.
"Clarity of information including pricing provided". When you reach the point someone asks, 'how much?", simply tell them how much or more often than not, you will lose them at that point.
"Personality, - we felt we clicked with you straight away". Often the job will go to the person/company they click with first, or at least gives you a massive advantage going forward.
The above are not necessarily the exact words or phrases used, but more or less exactly what they are saying every time.
And in case you think 800 from 5000 is only 16%, "so what about the 84% you lost?!", there are many reasons but no excuses including;
Price. Cost is the biggest one by far. The vast majority enquire (or inquire if they are American) often with little to no idea what my type of services might cost. For most, it is above their at the time projected budget and that's fine.
Style. Extremely rare. They are unlikely to even make contact in the first place unless they liked your shit.
Not a good fit. That one is a hard one for me as in it's very difficult for me to put off, never mind say no to a potential client, but it happens occasionally.
Simply not available in the first place. That is around 20-25% of all enquiries.
Finally, I don't like the sound of their job so turn it away at their first point of contact. Currently, over 50% of enquiries immediately go politely in the bin.
My enquiry to booking ratio of the actual jobs I want is somewhere between 75-90% so I think quite good actually.
As Kye said, if this kind of info helps anyone, particularly noobs trying to get into business, good.
Quite simply, showcase what you want to be booked for. Keep clarity a priority. Don't put obstacles in the way for clients you'd like to book. Always be honest (as you can be) and certainly not deceptive or desperate and accept you can't book them all!

Electronics are so complicated now that it's almost impossible to build your own stuff without having thousands, or tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment.
My dad loves electronics and messes around with Raspberry Pi computers to make automated things (like a greenhouse where there is a fan and motorised window which he can control to keep a desired temperature range etc).  He had sometimes had issues building the little temperature probes, which are little chips that you mount on little circuit boards.  He printed out the circuit board pattern and etched the circuit boards himself, but when it came time to solder on all the components around it, he found that the surface mount resistors he'd ordered were too small for him to see!  
Not too small to pick up and work with (which they were) - they were literally too small to see on the piece of plain white copy paper he'd put them on.  To give you an idea, they would easily fit into the grooves on your fingers that make your fingerprints!
He had to order a new batch and hope that they were bigger (they were) but still very very difficult to solder by hand.
You could just say "use human sized components then" and that works sometimes, but with digital communications lines between chips, the length of the trace between the two chips matters, because depending on the physical length of the trace they work like echo-chambers with the digital signal bouncing back and forth, and also as antennas both broadcasting the digital signal to the surrounding areas and also receiving other digital signals from surrounding areas, so even just by putting two chips the wrong distance apart they can fail to talk to each other.
I wish it was easy, but it's really not.  
Plus, then you have to program everything.  Have you seen the code for Magic Lantern?  They're only modifying the firmware that Canon has written, you'd be writing it from scratch!

People seem to be obsessed with nit-picking the colour science of cameras, but indicate they don't colour grade for one reason or another.
To me, even a few simple adjustments can improve the image so much more than the differences in colour science between manufacturers.  In fact, the image out of camera is like a plain sponge cake straight out of the oven - it's nice and the quality matters but it's far from the final result.
Colour grading is also talked about as being super complicated, and it can be, but it doesn't have to be.  Simple grades can still be really powerful.
Here are some examples from online, to show how much of a nice image is camera colour science and how much is colour grading.
ARRI  LOG:

With ARRIs LUT:

Grade:

The above grade was done using only white balance, the lift / gamma / gain controls, a vignette, log wheels, in that order.
To look at skin tones, the holy grail of camera colour science - here's a before and after....   before:

Then on top of the previous look, here's additional treatments to give it more of a film look.

These additional adjustments were: Gain (to lower exposure), white balance, saturation (lowered), darken shadows, in that order.
Which was inspired by this frame from Sicario:

Here's the video showing the whole grade: https://youtu.be/8GkcqEA72QM
 
Next example - SOOC:

with 709 conversion:

Grade:

Video link: https://youtu.be/fRDjEB6ryyQ
 
Next one - with 709 conversion:

Grade:

Video: https://youtu.be/OmBBYHMi_ek
 
Next one - SOOC:

With 709 conversion: 

Grade:

Video: https://youtu.be/UNW_8jcGJqw
 
There are literally more examples online to count, but I just focused on the more neutral looking colour grades, as the people doing dirty film grades probably don't care about skin tone minutia when they're going to pummel the image with Dehancer etc.
So, what's the TLDR?
Even half-a-dozen simple steps applied in addition to the manufacturers LUT can make a huge difference It's about making small changes to make the image look slightly nicer, and they add up The reason that fancy cameras look incredible is because the colourist takes the great work done on set and expands on it How do I get started?
Look at the image and work out what tool might improve it (if you have no idea, just try the basic ones) Wiggle whatever tool back and forth, deliberately going too far one way and too far the other way, then find the best spot Compare the adjustment you just make to see if it makes the image better or worse, if it's better then keep it, otherwise undo
(sometimes a really good adjustment will look completely natural and the 'before' will look like something is being applied to the image and is damaging it) Go to 1. Repeat until you can't find anything that makes the image look better. If you're using another image to inspire your look, then for step 1, just look at both images and work out what looks different about yours, and try and fix it.  Is it brighter? Darker?  More contrasty?  A different colour?  More or less saturated?  Adding a vignette to lighten your subject or darken the other areas of the frame is a good trick.  Looking to find anything in the frame that's distracting and de-emphasising it is really useful too - even just lowering the brightness or saturation can really stop it from fighting for attention.
Even by the time you've adjusted these basic tools, you'll be well ahead.  

The tips for networking I've learned for networking in the corporate world (which is likely to be broadly similar) are:
Be brief - people like it when you respect their time Say something in the message that is unique to them - this shows them you haven't copy/pasted to a million people Tell them why they might contact you Tell them how to contact you Tell them how to check out your previous work A message as simple as "Hi - I loved your work on project X, I do sound on similar projects.  I'd love to work with you - if you have something coming up get in touch! <link to bio>".  
What I learned about networking:
People hire people they get along with, skills are necessary but are a secondary consideration When meeting people, establish rapport with the other person first, ask questions about their own work and projects, don't talk about yourself or pitch unless they ask If you can solve a problem for them or give them advice (that is welcome!) then you'll stand out and be seen as useful If they ask about your work, don't embellish or diminish it - successful people can often tell when people are bending the truth (even on gut-feel) and its an instant fail Focus on understanding their situation and challenges and try to help You probably know much of this, but in case you didn't, and also for the lurkers, thought I'd elaborate.

EOS-M ?
Bigger sensor for not much bigger footprint and generally available for sub £150 including the stabilised kit lens.
Thats just it as a regular camera but of course there is room to grow with RAW video though that’s far from compulsory.
Ditto room for expansion with the lenses both their own and also some interesting cheap options from Meike and 7Artisans etc.
Plus adapters for EF either speed boosted or with variable ND.
For most people the EOS-M is all about Magic Lantern but outside of that it is a great option as a very cheap compact but expandable larger sensor camera.
 

Well you can buy and try iPhone 15 as your main camera. There is no better way but to try it personally. My limited experience with iPhone 14 Pro and more extensive with Android RAW showed me that smartphones as cameras have many limitations. The list is long. At the end it is a simple choice: Can you live with and/or work around all those limitations or not. For me answer is clear: I can't and don't want to. I prefer the inconvenience to lug 1 to 2 kg of equipment more for several kilometers, but have great experience shooting rather than the other way around. Here are some examples: When testing iPhone 14 Pro as a camera I used it as GPS navigation too. Mounted on the front dashboard of my car in sunny spring day with temperature around 25-27 degree Celsius it overheated and shut down. Had to stop my car and swap it with my Android phone. It took more than 30 min for IPhone to cool down and be usable again. If you want to have some decent footage you still need ND filters, this means a special case or cage for iPhone as minimum plus probably a handle. How long will the battery last? So maybe an external battery too ? Or external SSD ? But both can't be used at the same time. 🙂  You see, if you want a semi decent footage and shooting experience, you still have to prepare and take several other items, spend time planning, etc. With time and experience for me the weight of my camera bag up to a certain limit is at the bottom of my inconveniences and concerns.
As a camera that is always with me, in my pocket though latest generation of Android phones or iPhone 15 Pro are something that I can't resist. 🙂 Another case to use them would be when I go out for a day or more and am not sure do I want to shoot something or not, will I have the time or not. Having a smartphone as a camera + maybe a case with ND filters for those casual shoots is great.