kye

2 hours ago, 1Ale82 said:

Ergonomic will definitely be a main factor. My first camera was a Nikon D700 and for ergonomics it was a really nice and well designed products. I have used it in the Arctic and several other cold places and it always felt good in my hands. I like also the bodies from Fuji. And I think the new XH1 improves the older XT2 in 3 aspects, with the top lcd, the better viewfinder and the bigger grip, really nice to have when wearing gloves. I never tried sony cameras, but always heard bad opinions about their ergonomics, construction and internal menu.

Considering internal vs external codecs, maybe I am a little confused. I know better codecs like prores or avidhd can be had only externally and that these codecs are a lot more robust than internal ones.  I also understand that recording internally you will have a few compromises like 420 sampling, lower quality codecs, etc.

What I have not understood very well is if the max bitrate from the camera applies also to the external recording device. I mean, the max bitrate comes from the camera internal processors, even to the external recorder via hdmi, right? If the camera can record up to 100/200 mbs/s, the external recorder will have to follow that data stream also? 

My understanding is that in terms of internal vs external they can be quite different.  
As an example the XH internal is 4K 8-bit 4:2:0 at up to 200Mbit, but the HDMI output sends out 4K 8-bit 4:2:2 which the recorder can then save in whatever format and bitrate it supports.

Another example to prove the point is that the Sony RX0 can only record 1080 internally but outputs 4K so if you use an external recorder you can record in 4K with it, so they can be quite different.

9 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Beer

Wouldn't that be for after the shoot?

If you drink it before the shoot then you'd be far too relaxed, having too good a time, not be paying attention to annoying people.......   hang on a minute - I think you might be onto something here!!

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Car cameras is a massive market, could have been a reasonable pivot/sideline for GoPro to have approached that niche as well. Lots of missed opportunities have happened for GoPro unfortunately. 

All companies must use the profit from their existing sales to invest in the next product or service that will take over from their existing offerings, otherwise they'll lose market share and eventually fail.  

This happens across all industries, but at different speeds.  Slow change tends to make people say "when I got my first job it was different then", moderate change is "I worked as a X, but then there was less demand and so I re-trained as a Y", and fast change is when you are competing in an industry where multiple people have an annual product release cycle but products take longer than a year to design.  This is the modern electronics market.  Super fast change is in fashion or software where what is hot today is worth very little in months or weeks time.  Product cycles are so short in fashion that it's now called Disposable Fashion.

https://www.npr.org/2016/04/08/473513620/what-happens-when-fashion-becomes-fast-disposable-and-cheap

""It used to be four seasons in a year; now it may be up to 11 or 15 or more," says Tasha Lewis, a professor at Cornell University's Department of Fiber Science and Apparel Design."

GoPro is a one-trick pony, as demonstrated by the relatively poor performance of their drone and 360 camera shows, their only non-action-camera products.

1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Not exactly.  Sensors tend to heat up when you scan them faster, so cameras will often run them slower.  Not sure if it saves power too but that could also be another reason.  They run them at the fastest acceptable speed that they can manage even though a lot of sensors can run much faster.

I think @Mokara was just pointing out that if you're shooting 60p then the camera only has 1000ms/60 = 16.7ms to capture a frame before the next frame needs to have started, otherwise the camera won't be keeping up with 60 fps.

Your point about sensor temperature is well made though, as I would imagine it has to do with the clock speeds that the processors need to run at, and faster clock speeds often mean running chips at higher voltages, which means more heat, more overheating issues, reliability issues, and power consumption.  Considering the battery requirements there's no wonder the RS on the Sony a6300 etc is so bad!

Thanks @Orangenz @Trek of Joy @graphicnatured

That takes it down to the Yi 4k as the budget option, FDR-X3000 (what a name!), and the GoPro.

The short version seems to be that the Yi 4K and GoPro do all the modes (4K60 and 2.7K120) but don't have IS and the X3000 has IS, higher bitrates but "only" does 4K30 and 1080p120.  This would mean that I'd have to decide before hitting the record button what I want in slow-motion and what I don't, which I'm fine with.  My iPhone 8 has OIS and 4K60 which I can use for dry shots I'm taking, with the GoPro being for wet shots or when I hand it over to others.  Resolve has built-in Optical Flow frame retiming so I can fake slow-motion for short shots too.

I think that the IS probably counts for more than getting extra resolution at a given frame rate, considering that I am ok with 1080 quality on some/all shots.  IS is especially useful for low-light when the camera decides to use a 359 degree shutter and micro-vibrations blur each frame to hell.  In that situation a 1080 capture with IS will have more resolution than 4K without it.

Now the decision is really when to buy one.  Come the September announcements we'll either get nothing, a new X3000 (yes please!!), or a new GoPro/Yi camera (or the BM action camera... hint hint).  I'm not sure how much use an action camera will get between now and then considering it gets cold down under during this part of the year.

10 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Of course, it depends on the purpose. I do travel stuff (“moving postcards”) so I take what’s given to me as and when I find it. Telling a story or making a documentary would be a totally different proposition (and much much harder I guess).

Yeah, I looked for an option to make the poll so you could complete it multiple times but no such option exists, thus why I said "typical".  Many here are versatile

50 minutes ago, 1Ale82 said:

Hello,

Sorry if this post is similar to several others, but I am kind stuck as I need a camera for video. I am starting out with video. I am currently using a Fuji X T2 for my still images but I have a couple of upcoming projects this summer and I am looking for another body to use for video or to be my only photo/video body in case I want to go really light.

I will be filming in the mountains (cold, rain, I have to carry everything on my back, etc.) and not in a studio, so there are also fieldwork considerations I take into account. The materials will be for documentary and stock videos, nothing too complicated like green screen or graphical effects. The subjects will be a mix of landscape and wildlife shots, timelapses and human activities like local shepherds in their daily work, alpinists trekkings and hiking, etc.

For future proofing , especially for the stock videos, I want a body able to shoot in 4k.

I will be using Leica, Voigtlander and Nikon lenses, so the camera brand is not that important as I can always get an adapter. I know it’s like a Frankenstein kit but some were second hand bargains on the bay and some were “stolen-borrowed” from my father’s locker.

Quite likely I will also get an external recorder, like the Atomos flame or inferno, to have access to better codecs and video tools like false colors, zebra, vectorscopes, etc. Audio will be recorded separately with a MKH60 and a Tascam recorder.

 

I have come down to these choices: Fuji X H1, Sony A7III or GH5s.  Now my problem is, which one?

For video, they have each one some strong and weak points

Fuji XH1: 200mb bit rate, good colors, good ergonomics, Eterna simulation, poor battery life, only 8 bit

Sony A7 III: 100mb bitrate, better low light, longer battery life, bad menus

Gh5s: it has more of everything but I don’t like that much the m43 and I don’t see it as a good option for still images (probably it’s an obsession of mine as I have shot for long with Nikon cameras).

 

My question is: what would you choose between a camera that takes 8 bit videos at 200mb/s and another one that takes 10 bit video taken at 100mb/s?

Having to choose, I suppose the mb/s is the more important issue and acts like a bottleneck, as it dictates how much data you can have to play with. Probably this is also the reason why when you increase fps but not the mb/s, you start to get artifacts and lower quality.

I'm sure you will get lots of advice / opinions from others on here, but here's a few thoughts:

• Before you choose technical aspects or equipment you should understand what your customers requirements are (eg, broadcast standards etc) and make sure you comply to those
• You mention getting an external recorder, but then ask about camera codecs - maybe try and get clear about if you're going to use an external recorder or not first as if you are then the internal recording formats on the camera won't matter but the HDMI/SDI? output will
• All cameras in this league (ILC, weatherproof) will deliver a good image, so perhaps there are other factors like ergonomics that are more important here?  If you are carrying this stuff up and down mountains in the rain and then don't want to use it then that's a fundamental issue - the image quality of a shot you didn't take is zero, and if you're annoyed and fighting with the equipment all the time for an extra bit of data-rate then your quality of life will be much lower too.  
• Often cameras have quirky little features that can really make them great to use in your particular situation - I'd try and read reviews of the cameras written by people who shoot where and how you are going to because they'll have worked out all the little things, and also will have tried to minimise the setup as much as possible with batteries and charging and media management etc.
• In terms of the technical aspects the 8-bit vs 10-bit debate is raging with knowledgeable and convincing arguments on all sides - this thread could go for hundreds of posts on this alone.  Also, bitrate matters, but what matters more is how much motion there is for the bitrate to describe.  Locked off tripod shots require much less bit depth than fast action shots.
• With todays cameras you're really choosing between options that are all at least 7 out of 10, so there are no bad choices, just some are slightly better than others.

56 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

You could compare camera+lenses sizes (some of them) in the same Camerasize site. 

- Go to  https://camerasize.com/compact/

- In the menu bar at the right of the combo box which you choose the cameras, click on the last icon (camera+lens)

- Choose a camera and click the "+" button

- The camera body will appear in top view, and over it there is a link "click to add a lens"

- Choose the lens that you want

- Add a 2nd camera body and repeat the process.

You can copy the generated URL that your browser will show in the URL bar when you have the comparison you desired and share it, like this:

https://camerasize.com/compact/#698.613,698.366,ha,t
 

I was going to make a joke about why the BMPCC4K isn't in there....  but it is!

https://camerasize.com/compact/#698.613,698.366,782.5,ha,t

just for fun I put the Panasonic 14mm f2.5 pancake lens on it :D

49 minutes ago, aldolega said:

That makes sense, I was picturing flip-upwards just because it would help keep the camera small. And itwouldn't be hard at all to add a small bracket to the camera to move the mic over to the side.

I've seen a few pocket cameras like you describe put microphones on the front of the camera to try and get a bit more directional audio and some footage taken in a public place seemed pretty good actually, so it's possible to make a camera that doesn't need external audio.

A product like that would be very compact and well suited for vlogging as well as normal video

1 hour ago, aldolega said:

Yea that lens is not making it off of a body. Speaking of the LX100, Panasonic could dominate the blogger market if they'd just do an LX200 already, with better AF, the 20MP sensor, IBIS, mic jack, and a flip screen that goes up over the top (like an A5100). 

There is a deep divide in the vlogging community about where the flip screen should be..  those that use in-camera sound and prefer the screen flips over the top because it looks more natural if they look at the screen while shooting, and those that use an external microphone which is mounted in the hot-shoe of the camera and therefore they prefer a side-flipping screen like Canon.

.....then there are the Sony shooters, who focus on their hand and then just stare into their 16-35 hoping they're in frame!!!    

In a recent discussion people were surprised about what level of planning others did / didn't do before a shoot.  I'm aware of forum members working on high-end commercial sets, those working with small teams, solo-shooters, and people using 'found footage' without even any actors.  

I though it might be fun to make a poll and we can see if it reveals anything interesting.  I've probably missed some things, but ce la vie!

7 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Nice video you posted, crazy you're still using a Hero3! I have the Hero Session5 and the FDR-X3000 and the Sony is quite a bit better. The BOSS stabilization is far ahead of GoPro's and the image is cleaner as well. The newest GoPro looks like its less noisy than the Session5, but electronic stabilization is far worse compared to the optical stabilization Sony offers. The FDR-X3000 also has a mic input and the remote app works better than GoPro's IMO.

At some point I'm selling my GoPro, the only reason I haven't is the goofy form factor of the Sony and the waterproof case doesn't play nice with my pole and GoPro mounts as it uses a 1/4"-20. I need to get a solid adapter as the GoPro tripod mount I have doesn't lock in any way. 

Cheers

Chris

Thanks mate!

Yes, still using the Hero 3 because it didn't get enough use to justify paying the entire purchase price again for a newer model that is, maybe, 3% better!  To be honest it kind of sat without getting much usage until recently, when I shot two parties, and on my recent trip we went swimming a bunch of times and got used heavily there too, thus my renewed interest.

Is your pole the GoPole?  If not, it might be worth checking if there's a hidden 1/4-20 in there somewhere - the cheap GoPro accessories often have 1/4-20 with an adapter mounted on top that you can just remove.  Considering the enormous market for tripods / monopods / etc there might be a nice $15 replacement available on amazon?  Or, if you're a bit handy, there are millions of hugely functional accessories and mounts that can be made from practically any hardware store  

I made a modular rig for stabilising the GoPro underwater out of something like 20mm PVC piping with a handful of T-pieces that are just friction-fit.  PVC is slightly denser than water so it sinks and I worked out that if I adjusted the angle on things properly I could drop the GoPro from snorkelling depth and it would slowly descend and then settle on the bottom, with beautiful framing of a piece of coral with fish coming and going!  Then you just leave it there for a minute or two and then dive down and go get it, then in post you choose the best moments of fish action

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

The PeauPro87 mod address all those concerns.

That's an interesting point.  Many of the reasons it's not suitable for me (as a specialist camera) make it more suitable for the average consumer.

Phones still have huge screens and are already in your pocket, but the 19mm lens does help somewhat.

This thread suddenly got very useful!!

7 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Apparently we won't see any rolling shutter - Although I guess if you swing the camera around trying to see it, you will see it.

4 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

Yes.  Latest Blackmagic releases no longer have rolling shutter problems.  Ursa Mini 4.6K/Pro is decently fast.  So is the new micro cinema camera.  When they switched to 4K+ cameras aliasing/moire largely went away too.

and the BMPCC4K seems to just get better and better with more information released...!

On 06/05/2018 at 11:21 AM, Damphousse said:

Honestly the quality of the product has improved.  For the first time I am considering getting a Gopro.  Although the camera still has the problem of limited use for most people.  The number of people in America heavily involved with action activities is limited.  But with the increased quality of the cameras and more affordable high quality small gimbals available I think these cameras could me good for shooting family events.  They are simple, small, rugged, and splash proof.

As someone with a pretty average life (job, family, house, car, etc) who shoots with my GoPro a lot I actually disagree about them being good for family events.

They're wide angle, which means that you have to either zoom in, which is pretty difficult to hold them remotely still (unless you rig them up, in which case just use a larger camera with IS) or film everything close up, which is kind of strange and the lens distortions are EXTREMELY UNFLATTERING to average people (who don't have the figures of models or people used to seeing themselves on TV).

I actually agree with @Kisaha that the best cameras for recording normal life is the smartphone, as it has many of the advantages but also lots less disadvantages.

Also, I think that action cameras are cameras that require huge amounts of editing to get good end results from.  You film things close up, film things that are moving quickly (either in slow-mo or real-time), put them over fast music and do a fast edit with lots of cuts.  That's the GoPro aesthetic.  I think this video proves that:

In researching a replacement for my GoPro I was reading forums about potential other cameras, and one person said their camera recorded nice quality at first but later on in the file the quality reduced.  One of the replies was to only shoot short clips because "long clips are really boring" - obviously that person assumed the clips wouldn't be edited at all!

15 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I am not going to pass my phone on a stabilizer around to a bunch of kids or drunk adults.

Last month I shot a film at a club for a friends birthday (I posted it in the GoPro replacement thread) and I shot it with my GoPro precisely because I didn't want to pass my phone to drunken adults in a club.  Plus I wouldn't have gotten my DJI Osmo Mobile 2 past security - they took a few long looks at my Bobber handle that I had on it.

14 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Edit: My comment about the mobile phones, was that the image quality and specs of modern mobile phones, even mid-tier ones, are similar with most action cams, it is a device most already own, a lot of models are already waterproof (so, splash proof really, I wouldn't dive with my mobile phone), so they can be used for a lot of the light things that people were using GoPros some years ago. 

Completely agree.

I did actually go swimming with my iPhone 8 deliberately at the beach when I first got it as I was wondering if I could replace my GoPro with it.  I haven't edited the footage yet, but I can tell you the 1080p240 at 400% quality from MoviePro app looks absolutely spectacular in full-afternoon-sun, the screen only worked sometimes, and it took a few hours to dry out afterwards before it would charge properly again.  I actually did what you're not meant to do and I plugged it in to charge, so it should have killed something but I was lucky.

With your phone you don't have anything else to carry, you get a nice large screen (huge by camera standards), you can edit in-camera, and you can upload direct from the device.  Action cameras require SD card adapters a full computer or hours of file transfer time, and all the stuffing around that keeps an army of post-production staff employed around the world.

I have a big camera with zoom lens which is good for everything except being discrete (or wider than 24mm), my phone which is very discreet but no zoom, and my GoPro which is waterproof and very wide.  In this sense it's a specialist camera used for very particular things.

On 05/05/2018 at 6:55 PM, Cinegain said:

I'd seriously consider a waterproof compact such as the Nikon Coolpix W300, Olympus TG-5 or Fujifilm FinePix XP130. The Olympus TG-870 starts at 21mm and has a flip-up screen for framing. If that's really not your thang. Don't go amature, Go Pro. Stay with the actioncam thing. The Hero3 is relatively old now, things have become a little better since. Indeed the YI 4K+ is a steal as well. SJCAM recently announced their SJ8 series, which is open for pre-order. The Pro runs the Ambarella H22 S85 chipset with SONY IMX377 sensor and uses a six-axis gyroscope for stabilization.

The gyroscope stabilisation sounds interesting.  I've done tests in the past and found that basically there are two levels of stabilisation required: stabilisation that limits small/fast movement while the shutter is open (creating blur - this can only be solved by OIS or IBIS), and stabilisation that keeps shot-to-shot movement at bay (where gyroscopes, warp stabiliser style stabilisation, gimbals, and to a certain extent OIS / IBIS can help).

I noticed on the above video that there's a need for both levels of stabilisation.

I use Resolve for the shot-to-shot stabilisation, but with these videos fast-paced edits are the norm and so movement isn't as detracting as other styles of films.

On 05/05/2018 at 8:12 PM, Luke Mason said:

There are modified Go Pro 6 available with 19mm all glass, low distortion lens. Better sharpness with almost no glare. 

Interesting, but I think the 1.4x zoom is too severe for me..  Pity!

On 06/05/2018 at 9:32 AM, Carz said:

The sony fdr-x3000 sounds like it has what your after. Better low light than go pro, image stabilization, very nice picture. Only negatives I see are no screen and you need a case for underwater use. Worth checking out though.

I didn't realise that this had a waterproof case - that makes a huge difference.  I've just watched a bunch of review videos on this and I think this is the leading option for me at the moment.  The fact that iPhonedo YT channel continually uses this as part of his run-and-gun setup for reviewing other cameras (including all the major action cameras) speaks volumes about the quality level.  Also the higher bitrate would be excellent because with action cameras you're normally moving them around all the time so the bits aren't just dedicated to a few items in the frame moving, they're spread across the whole frame moving constantly.

The lack of screen doesn't phase me (it's an action camera, so you point it vaguely in the right direction and you're good) but there's a remote screen for it which you can buy.

Any idea if it's about to get an upgrade?  I did some googling but couldn't find much about it, and it seems that sonyrumours has turned into some kind of news site ?

23 hours ago, Damphousse said:

The PeauPro87 is interesting.  Thanks for bringing it up.

One concern I have is they don't have much good footage demonstrating the results of the mod.  I'll definitely keep my eye out for more footage though.  I'm intrigued.

How about a GoPro HERO6 Black?  The image quality will be much better.  If I were you I would look at some comparison videos.  I have NEVER liked GoPros because their image quality sucked.  But I think the tech has finally matured to the point in decent light you can get some good footage.  For the first time I am seriously looking at a GoPro camera.  Which reminds me I need to update my Gopro stock thread.

In terms of GoPro Hero 6 I watched a few reviews where it was worse than the 5, so if I didn't end up with a Sony FDR-X3000 then I might consider waiting for the Hero 6+ which should be out Just In Time For Christmas, I'd imagine.  

Considering that the FDR-X3000 is approaching 1.5 years old (it was also out Just In Time For Christmas) it might be worth waiting in either case.  

If only the RX0 had a wider lens and 200Mbit codec....   (or if BM releases the Black Magic Matchbox Cinema Action Camera 4K.. hint hint...  It would shoot in Prores and have BM colour science and be called the BMMCAC4K.  With an acronym like that I bet they're making it already!)

34 minutes ago, Deadcode said:

The quality of the final video is pretty good for a gopro!

The flare is caused by greasy lens, you can avoid it if you are not using the skeleton case, but the frame. Of course in this case the camera is no longer protected against the elements.

Thanks mate!

You're right that it was in the protective case - in a previous video I did someone kept kissing the lens so it was much easier to deal with.  I tried to be really careful and clean the lens and both inside and outside of the case, but looks like I didn't succeed.  It looked pretty clean though beforehand and during 

34 minutes ago, Deadcode said:

Almost all of the action cameras are using the same sensor, the low light performance is most likely the same. With the gopro's you can use a special professional mode where you can turn off all of the precessing.

For this mode you need Protune 2.0 capable camera so Hero3+ at least. Use the usual Protune, Native WB, Flat settings, fix your shutter speed (1/50-1/100) and instead of "max iso" choose "fix ISO" value. In this mode the in camera noise reduction turns completly off. In this case you get a very detailed (and of course very noisy) results till iso1600, but after NR the final footage can look better.

This was Protune with Cam RAW WB but I think that's the limit to optimising it.  The Protune 2.0 settings seem useful and having the NR in camera turned off would be an improvement, although I'm not sure if having more noise or NR before the low bit-rate codec would be better.  

I may be the first person to suggest this (but maybe not) - but BM should make an action camera!!!

3 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Seriously, great video!

I consider all the action cams unacceptable for me. What I use mostly (not waterproof) is an old NX3000, an APS-C 20megapixels very very small mirrorless woth the native, tiny amd great 10mm 3.5f fish eye.

The 1" Sony must be great as well, but the other option cost me less, 3 years ago, and arguably the quality is great.

Thanks!

If I could use a larger non-waterproof camera then my GF3 m43 camera wouldn't be sitting in my drawer gathering dust     The Sony seems excellent but it's just the lens isn't wide enough.  Maybe I should see if there's a mod?

Despite having lots of nice cameras, I find that I've used my GoPro Hero 3 consistently over the last 5 years, but I'm frustrated with the quality and looking to replace it.

My critical requirements are:

• Waterproof
• Very wide angle (~17mm or wider)
• Half-decent low-light performance
• Relatively small form factor (for hand-holding - doesn't have to be wearable)
• 4K or high bitrate 1080 (lots of movement causes compression artefacts galore)
• Doesn't have to have a screen

I use it for shooting while swimming and for parties.  The combination of waterproof, wide-angle and small means that people can pass it around and using it as a selfie-camera can still get themselves in shot, it doesn't freak out other people at the beach or whatever (it's still borderline though), and can be used in clubs or private venues without getting hassled by security (security had a couple of good looks at my gopro with "bobber" handle, but probably more concerned with its ability to be used as a weapon).

Here are some issues I have with the Hero 3 - from a shoot about a month ago in a club:

Overpowering flares (I wonder if this is my camera being old and having some coatings fail or something?  if not then this may be common to other cameras though)

High ISO and bad compression problems (these shots are already processed with with HEAVY NR in Resolve using masks and edge detection etc - original files are much worse!)

I still got a good video out of it but it would be nice to have a bump in IQ..  It doesn't have to be a huge improvement but just something that doesn't make me disappointed every time I'm looking at the raw footage

The wide-angle and ability to film lots of cool camera angles really suits the style of film.  

Final video:

Candidates I've considered.
GoPro Hero 6 - possible, but I'm not sure if the ISO performance will be much better?  Expensive.
GoPro Hero 5 Session - I like that it's tiny, but unsure about ISO performance? Can't exchange batteries, so battery life might be an issue?  Reasonably priced.
Yi 4k+ - unsure about ISO performance? 
RX0 - not wide angle enough, expensive.

Any ideas or advice?

Wow, this thread is getting hard to keep up with..  is everyone hammering away on their phones or is everyone retired or between client jobs or something??

9 hours ago, mercer said:

and be happy with FF Raw from my 5D3 and  S16 ProRes from a BMMCC

That's kind of like saying that Audi had too much of a hand in taming the latest Lamborghini and so you're going to be happy with your Ferrari and just pickup a second hand Lotus Elise to go to the shops and whatever...!!!!

7 hours ago, Django said:

In the end what makes BMD cams special and different from the hybrids is ProRes/RAW, no OLP filter, no NR/Sharpening, Film/Log profile, color science. Basically the ingredients you'll find in much more expensive cinema cams. 

Agreed.  

As a Resolve user I would also say that the fact they're coming from the same manufacturer is also a significant plus for me.  

In terms of this camera being so flexible (and therefore requiring all the work to be done in post) the fact that Resolve will be optimised to handle the footage well in terms of the formats, colour science, etc takes a significant amount of the risk out of it for me.  

If instead we were talking about ML, then Resolve has no camera RAW, no support for the colour science, etc.

(Sorry for the empty multi-quote Django - for some reason I can't remove the last quote from you..  )

8 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I wouldnt be very optimistic about the long term income prospects for stock video

Take this site...

https://www.shutterstock.com/

Look at the stock video rates - typically US$79 for a 1080p clip and US$199 for 4k - sounds like a good business right?

Then take a look at the stock photo rates on the same site. A US$29 monthly fee gets you 10 images or US$2.9 an image. And if you want a lot of images a month, you can get them for as little as 27cents an image.

Essentially stock  photo prices have fallen by over 95% in the past 15 years (with the democratisation of photography). I know of 3 photographers who 15 years ago were working full time on stock photography (for Getty) and say they were making a very good living. Now they make almost nothing.

My guess is that video is probably half way through that democratisation process (which basically ends with everyone having decent video, video af, stabilisation on their cameras.) And it is pretty likely stock video prices will fall pretty rapidly.

I agree with your analysis, however don't mistake overall trends with niche markets or individuals.

If there's a niche that is unfulfilled and the OP fills it, it could work well.  In terms of how risky it is, that's something for the OP to assess.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

The beauty of the Pocket/Micro is that it can look however you like.

Yeah, and I think I've said before that the more flexible something is the harder it is to get what you want.

On a sliding scale between using Instagram (which 3-year olds can do) and shooting ARRIRAW (where professional colourists are required), this is at the difficult end and requiring the colourist skillset, however the killer aspect of this camera is that its price is at the Instagram end.

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

VR or HDR footage might be the next big thing. 

Yes - they could well be.

On this note, it might be interesting to include a 360 camera in your setup (even just rent one perhaps) and take it to a few cool locations and put them up for sale and see how you go.

Considering you're going to all the trouble of going places to film anyway it might not be a huge addition to your costs.  360 is another whole thing and requires different shooting techniques (from what I understand you need to set up the camera on a monopod hit record and then go hide for the time it's recording).

14 hours ago, DevonChris said:

Hi

I am thinking about shooting stock video footage. Most of it will be outdoors, but I might extend into interior shots such as food, where I can control the lighting.

My thoughts are to aim for 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 delivery so the GH5 looks ideal.

I am considering either a GH4/Atomos Inferno or GH5 internal 10 bit to get started. Should I be considering something else?

I currently use Fujifilm XT2's for photography but there are no 10 bit recording capabilities with these.

Thanks, for your thoughts.

At the risk of getting flamed (yet again) for posting logic instead of camera specifications, here is my take on it.

• You are talking about starting a business - therefore this is a business question not just a technical question
• You should be choosing your equipment based upon two factors: what type of files will sell, and what it will cost you to get those files to market
• I have spoken to a few people who make money from stock footage (I'm not an expert by any means) but what I was told is that a few clips will sell like hot-cakes and the majority will hardly sell at all, and you can never predict which is which, so you basically try and output as many clips as possible to maximise your chances.  They also said that things can sit and sell solidly for years, decades sometimes (I got told about real examples of stills imagery doing this).  It's a long game that takes ages to build income but can have a return that also lasts a long time, your historical content also supports longevity of sales.
• So my recommendation about what will sell is to future proof yourself with formats.  4K was a dream only recently and now my phone does 4K60 - these things change quickly.  More resolution might be useful for things other than broadcast standards (3d trackers for example love resolution).  The cost of your camera is only a small part of the total time to identify locations, research best shooting times of day and seasons, arrange permission and releases, travel there, setup, shoot, as well as all the post-production, media management, and management of a sales pipeline.
• In terms of what it costs to get files to market you should consider what formats might be easier to handle in post.  If you're shipping the files straight-out-of-camera then it's a question of what the sites you're selling on or end-customers will require, otherwise you should consider what transcoding or other conversions are required.  Not all media standards are created equal.

I hope this proves useful - and best of luck finding those winning clips that sell regularly and turning this into a profitable venture!

3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Don't confuse criticism with dismissal. I haven't seen anyone here saying the BMPv2 is not great. Especially for the price. It is hard not to advise anyone to get this camera.

But it is not ridiculous to claim that for handheld vlogging there are better solutions. Making such a big deal about the front facing button while there is little to no AF or a front facing screen is effort misplaced in my opinion. Of course you can use it as vlogging camera. Zone focus, use a lens with OIS and you can get excellent color as well. 

IIRC the fashion is to have shallow depth of field but the killer technique with Sony users (no front-facing screen there either!) is to extend your arm out with fingers pointed up and focus on them, as when holding the camera that's the same focus distance as hand to your face..  :D

1 hour ago, Tone1k said:

SDI could have been done at a similar price point and would have far better suited this camera than HDMI.

In reply to the above and also in general, we're in (yet another) situation where worlds collide.

World #1 is people who shoot RAW and see the camera as a tiny cinema camera.  In this sense SDI > HDMI and professional standards > consumer standards.

World #2 is people who want the 'best' ILC camera for under $2000.  In this sense, HDMI > SDI, consumer standards > professional standards, and front-facing buttons/screens/etc are nice features to have.

Neither world is wrong, it's just that before the DSLR revolution and YouTube these two worlds had never touched before.  Now they're in full collision mode.  Camera companies are trying to make products that appeal to both worlds and failing to connect, and both worlds look each other up and down then go back to whispering in separate groups like 10-year-olds in the school-yard.

In a decade we'll have worked out how big the market for online video is, how many people it can sustain at the various levels of quality, and what products make sense.

At the moment it's a mess, where the 'best vlogging camera' debate includes your phone, the RX100, the Canon M50, the Sony A7III, and the Pocket 2.  Any application that includes tools as varied as that lineup should indicate that we still haven't worked out what the hell is going on yet.

11 hours ago, Django said:

yeah well that's a sore subject.. irony is i did get my XT2 stolen.. at the airport where i least expected it and let my guard down. rimowa & pelican case surely didn't help. lesson learned.

Ouch.  That totally sucks.. sorry to hear it.  With the kind of budget I have for equipment that's a nightmare scenario

10 hours ago, kaylee said:

yeah we need a line of cases that say like HAZARDOUS MATERIALS or WARNING SUPER AIDS or something

Super Aids is just awesome!!

I'd go for MEDICAL WASTE

41 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

In the accreditation queue outside the stadium on Tuesday we had the most audacious theft attempt when someone mingled into the queue and casually strolled off with a peli case (with 2 D5's, a 70-200 and a 400 f2.8 in it) and an attached laptop bag.

Fortunately, he only got about 20 yards away with it before he was spotted because he stuck out like a sore thumb.

And the reason he immediately aroused suspicion?

Ironically, far from it being because hr looked like a dodgy scruff, it was because he was WAY too smartly dressed to have ever passed for one of us !

I saw regular reports of thieves taking equipment when I was reading the stills photography blogs daily.  Even at the Olympics where they used a two-person team to distract and then steal rolling pelican cases of stuff   Luckily in that example they had security footage and the photogs banded together to raise awareness and encourage the police to catch them, so the guy even got his gear back before the games started.

The setup I've used previously was to have a normal backpack and add one of these into it:

It's tall enough to have a Canon 700D with 55-250mm zoom mounted on it fit into the middle section so it's bigger than it looks.  I've used it for carrying equipment on my carry-on for flights and also transferred to a lighter day-pack for shooting excursions.  

On the most recent trip when I had the XC10 / Rode VideoMic Pro+ / Gorillapod 5K it wasn't quite so handy.  I used QR plates to separate the Gorillapod from camera, but with the Rode VMP+ on the hot shoe of the camera it had to be put in vertically which meant holding the mic to take it in and out which wasn't ideal.  I didn't want the hassle of having to take the mic on and off the camera each time as it prevents getting quick shots.  So I'm thinking I'll have to review this setup unfortunately, so I'm not sure what I'll do about it yet.