kye

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well one thing I think is clear with a push toward 8K they sure as heck are not going to do that in these small Mirrorless bodies without some major breakthrough. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Especially with a push of having Raw in them to boot.

So it seems they are going to have to go to small Cine camera bodies with a Fan to do it. Might be the hangup with the Sony A7s mk III. Not counting a Way bigger battery needed to make it all work. Sony particularly it seems to me is going to Have to up size as they say, or just be stuck with overheating like crazy.

I agree about size and heat dissipation, but that contradicts the idea that all the cameras in a given lineup had the same body?

It's a strange situation to be in because if they push their video line-up and make a new body (that would obviously be larger due to cooling fans) for it, then it would make sense to use the opportunity for adding things like NDs and other things that take up space and they couldn't before.  If they did that and called it the A7SIII then it would confuse the A7 lineup completely but capture all the PR from the A7SII customers and reputation.  If they decide to slot it into their cinema lineup and call it something like the FS3, then most A7SII customers wouldn't understand it.

It's going to be a tough gig to make it better than the competition in performance, large enough to have cooling, and still fit the general form-factor of the A7Sii line and customers existing gimbals and other rigging that they'll want to keep using.

4 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

To be fair, the EVA 1 isn't even a Cinema camera just like the Sony FS and Canon C100 - C300 line, its a high end video camera.

Varicam LT and Varicam 35 are Panasonic's true cinema line cameras. 

Of course..  that makes the list something like:

• G m43, perhaps with a hi/lo philosophy, as the basic hybrid line
• GH successor as a proper small-factor cinema camera, with emphasis on video operability while  retaining most of GH5/5s stills capabilities
• S as FF contenders against Sony and Canonikon with 8K  ---OR--- EVA as 4K with much larger form factor with dedicated buttons etc
• Varicam as pro cinema line, including FF sensor and no-compromise operability

Even if we started to add their fixed lens cameras below the G series, their entire lineup would still make sense and be useful to almost all film-makers who need A-cam / B-cam / crash-cam options.

This clean hierarchy really doesn't seem to be common amongst the other manufacturers, who completely ignore parts of the market, or have large gaps in IQ between their consumer cams and professional cinema lines.

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Is your C Fast card Fast enough for Raw in the PK4? All 10 seconds of it.

Ironically, if I bought the BMPCC4K instead of GH5 then I'd already have the expensive media!!

I don't think they're fast enough for 1:1 RAW at 60fps, but they're usable for every sensible mode.  See below - they test about the same as a SSD HDD.

49 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

If the footage I’ve seen so far is badly graded by people who don’t know what they’re doing then I’m delighted. I can’t grade like an expert either so it proves even I have hope of achieving a decent image.

Expert (often cynically defined as someone who has been doing it badly for a long time) and professional quality stuff isn’t too important for people like me as it’s always going to be out of reach...

But I take your point!

@Andrew Reid is right - badly graded images tell us nothing.

If we see a bad grade, how can we tell the difference between it being a great camera and bad colourist, or a flawed camera that the colourist wasn't skilled enough to correct, or a broken camera that no-one could get a good image out of even if given years to do so?  The answer is that we can't.

Unfortunately, when you give a camera to a pro and get a great image back, you may be seeing the result of a camera that is really easy to work with and a very simple but effective grade, or you might be seeing a camera that takes skill to work with and the results of an experienced colourist, you can't tell.  However, at least you can tell that the camera isn't fundamentally flawed.

I find Philip Blooms camera tests very revealing both in what they show and what they don't show.  He shows what works with the camera, and to be fair, he normally does stress test them a bit.  But every now and then he'll release something like his iPhone 120fps video which makes the iPhone look like a wonderful camera until you realise that every shot (almost without exception) is pointing into the sun.  What's the moral of that story?  The 120fps mode needs a metric shitload of light, especially in 120p when exposure times are so short.  Its an omission, but it's one that is noticeable if you pay attention.

As Andrew said, only a skilled grader or the RAW files are of any use.

That makes sense @UncleBobsPhotography and would explain why I'm not getting 50MBps in the GH5 on a card that gives 80MBps in the computer

I must say though, I went out again today and took some random test shots and the 150Mbps modes just floor me.  Even the FHD 180fps mode looks great.

The phrase "digital film" keeps coming into my head when I look at a clip, either fullscreen which looks soft and with wonderful colour subtlety or zoomed in hugely where it just looks like film grain.  My vintage lenses will be helping with this, but even the 14mm F2.5 still gives that impression too.  It's a mile away from the brittle and digital look most 4K mirrorless cameras shoot these days.

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yes they are. Ain't cheap to own a PK4 is the short run. And that card is on sale!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1090746-REG/lexar_lsd256crbna10002_pro_1000x_uhs_2.html?sts=pi

Cheaper than the cards for my XC10.  

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1067863-REG/transcend_ts256gcfx650_cfast_2_0_cfx650_flash.html

and that was just to get 305Mbps 4K!

1 hour ago, tonysss said:

Today I was shooting in the vineyard with GH5 and I took the old pocket, and I have to admit bmpcc surprised me again with better color and at least +2 feet of dynamic range extra. I noticed that I use a lot more pictures in my pocket camera. Only add saturation and contrast and it's there. In new pocket I see less DRs and a worse transition of highlights to clipping and of course  colors are different and worse for me... the old pocket remains a loyal partner of my GH5 for beautiful B-roll or more cinematic work. Of course, working with old pocket needs more time and patience :)

From what I understand it took a number of firmware updates to get the BMPCC to where it is now.  I'd imagine the newer one will be the same?

If so, just think about it like you're buying a software subscription with free upgrades

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Hopefully the FF mirrorless means that Panasonic will not make the GH series 8K for many years yet to come. 

As I'd much rather they just make the GHx each release be the best best possible 4K camera it can be!

To ensure a smooth (ish) upgrade progression path then the EVA1 has to be a MFT mount (or at least the new L mount) in the future. 

The release cycles indicate the G series is next in line to get an update, with the G85 successor coming next? I do hope it doesn't get skipped over and forgotten about. As I feel the G series is the sweet spot to buy for many people, especially for new comers to join and grow the system.

One of the ways that I like to think about it is in terms of "tiers".

For the average Joe, a G85 might take pride of place in their setup as an A camera.  Their GoPro that used to be their A-cam might then be the tiny / crash cam in their setup.
For some, a GH camera might be your A-cam with a G camera being your B-camera, perhaps if you're shooting weddings for instance and need backup angles for coverage and don't need GH quality across the whole kit.
For others still, the EVA (or 8K S1?) might be their A-camera and the G or even GH camera lines might only be crash cameras.

What I like about this is that is provides a range of cameras with increasing features and IQ that many people can use for whatever scale, budget and IQ is appropriate for their project.

In terms of the new lens mount and 8K, do they go together?  I'm not sure of the resolution of existing Panny lenses, but the new mount would be a sensible time to mandate a minimum level of sharpness.  8K video has more pixels than most still cameras, so I'd imagine the vast majority of lenses will be at risk of falling short.  If that's true, then MFT lens only have to be 4K and 8K lenses are the new mount.  That keeps it simple for consumers and would help explain why the new lenses might cost a lot.

9 hours ago, eyesuncloudedphoto said:

This makes total sense IMO. The GH5 is still untouchable feature-wise, among hybrid cameras. What is perhaps needed is focusing on the video side of things even more, offering advanced features not found in anything sort of a "proper" cinema camera. Internal ND, for instance. Internal RAW and/or Prores. Perhaps the first application of global shutter? A number of things are easier and more economical to implement with a smaller sensor. 

Agreed.  Having the GH line firmly in the "small sensor but large body with many buttons" camp, there's room for things like internal NDs and other circuitry required for RAW recording and associated cooling etc.  Panasonic seem to pride themselves at offering lots of new things into the market with the GH line and there's no reason why they can't continue that trend.  8K might be coming, but the excitement around the BMPCC4K proved that interest in high quality 4K is anything but dead.

9 hours ago, jonpais said:

Maybe this just happens to me, but every time I buy a camera, it’s obsolete in six months.

Tell me about it.  I bought an XC10 and just upgraded to a GH5!

28 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

The biggest problem that Sony Alpha has,....is Sony XDCAM.

Its going to be politically hard for the Alpha folks to add 10bit, 4k, 60p, 400mbp/s internal recording with no recording limit to a new A7S-III. This is what they will probably face with a Panny S1 competition at NAB 2019. If Apha does this, XDCAM managers with scream bloody blue murder to the highest Sony executives. XDCAM does NOT want a Sony camera like this to exisr for fear that it would cannibalize far more expensive camcorder models.

Actually, Im certain our favorite Panny EVA1 manager is very nervous about the idea of a fully loaded FF Panny S1 under his EVA1 either. (No, he has never actually told me this)

Guys,...this huge shift we are seeing in the industry scares a lot of marketing execs and is probably making everybody scramble to try and figure out how to fight each other without stabbing themselves in the process!

This is the nature of technology conversion.  The reason they're all touchy about overlapping product lines is that in the end there will only be one or two product lines and the process to get there will involve almost everyone losing their job.

We all talk about convergence like it's the GH5 vs the BMPCC4K, but if you think longer term it's about the death of entire product categories.

51 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Thanks! though I will say that when trying to move the wing over it's full length, you need to put one hand on the tripod to fully steady it , when the tripod is at it's full size (still totally usable).... With the 90mm attached, this is even more pronounced. As I have it in the photo though, perfectly stable, leaving both hands to get even more smoothness

Could you perhaps put something on one of the tripod feet that you can stand on and it would secure that leg of the tripod to the ground and prevent it from moving or tipping up?

I'm not sure what that would be called, but its the same principle as putting sand-bags on the legs of big lighting stands to make sure they don't fall over.

Then you'd be free to use the slider with both hands.

@Jimmy that setup looks quite neat and compact, nice work!

1 hour ago, TurboRat said:

Had lots of write speed errors with Sandisk Extreme cards that I used. Went with Freetail Evoke and Prograde instead and never had that kind of problems.

Damn.. I spoke to the guy in the shop and the critical part is UHS-II, the SanDisk card I have is only UHS-I.

I think that it's probably a case of the card being able to sustain that speed on average but the video probably doesn't get generated at a constant speed and if the camera buffer fills up then it will cause the error.

I've recorded a bunch of test clips at 400Mbps and 150Mbps and the 150 looks pretty amazing actually. I haven't compared them directly but I've heard that they're very similar, so I might just use that mode with the cards I have.

Apparently UHS-II cards are really expensive.

14 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Is the card v60? I read somewhere that if the card doesn’t have a v30, v60 or v90 rating, it can’t guarantee sustained read and write speeds. I could be mistaken though.

Edit: just looked it up. v30.

Yeah, it's the V30 one, with the 95MB/s speed.  

I just finished copying 190Gb of images onto it and then looked at a bunch of images to compare the card copy to the HDD and they all check out.  I'm satisfied it's not a fake.

I'm going into town today so will call past the camera place I bought it from and see if they have another high-speed card to try out.  Unfortunately that's the only fast card I have so I can't narrow down if it's the camera or that card, although the computer says it tests fine so that points to the camera.

17 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

And as full frame mirrorless builds up steam and catches up, this is the best way the GH line up can make another big leap ahead and stay on the throne as a #1 choice for videographers. 

It would make sense if Panasonic kept pushing the GH line as high quality 4K cameras (10-bit, or maybe RAW) and pushed the new FF line to 8K.  

It would be quite a nice neat lineup, giving pros four video lineups: the G as the disposable / C-cam line, the GH as the budget / small / 4K / IBIS line, the S as the pricier / larger / 8K line, and the EVA as the cinema line with all the SDI and pro ergonomics.

Another question.

I just got my 256Gb Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I card and the GH5 stops recording in the 400Mbit mode saying the card can't keep up.  I tested the card in my computer and it gets a continuous 80+MB/s write speed with 5Gb files in the BM Speed Test program, so it should work fine in the camera (400Mbps is only ~50MB/s write, not even close to the 80MB/s it tests at).

I've read a bunch of websites and done some testing there's no indication it's a fake.

Anyone else had card speed issues?

If they said 4K60 10-bit was what we expected and they want to beat it then I see a few options.

They can up the specs in a way that marketing would like and we'll end up with 8K, and maybe no improvements to the 4K.

They could give us what we want with 4K, potentially downscaled 8K, extra bit depth perhaps, maybe 444.

They could go for the intangibles and play with ergonomics, NDs, maybe menus, maybe buttons and dials more like a cinema camera.

Or they could exceed the expectations they think we have and just get it wrong and give us a huge WTF camera.

Unless they change their stripes it will be the first one with 8K, maybe 4K60 10-bit.

If they've already made the camera but pulled the announcement (that's my guess) then maybe they'll be stuck with the physical shape and will be trying to tweak firmware etc.

Of course they might go full left-field and release a battery grip that has large battery capacity and a RAW recorder in there as well, that might be something interesting.

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

Monochrome Live View perhaps?

That helps a little, but I think it's the Peaking algorithm itself.

For instance, if I set the Peaking to High and put two objects the same distance from the lens, one with higher contrast edges and one without, and focus on them, I get the contrasty object with focus highlights and the softer one without.  If I was just trying to focus on the softer object without anything else nearby then the peaking wouldn't be any help.

If I set it to Low, then the peaking shows edges on the softer object, but unfortunately it will also show peaking on high contrast objects that aren't in focus as well, in the background perhaps.  Yesterday I went out and shot some test clips with my 14mm F2.5 and the peaking showed that the trees were in focus as well as the background but the footage shows the trees as being quite blurry and the background nicely in focus.

I suspect that it simply highlights if there is a difference between two pixels above a certain threshold, which will be true if a contrasty object is in focus, true if a very contrasty object is out of focus but has a blur that goes from light to dark, and isn't true if you have a soft object in focus (like skin).  Hmm...  I need faster lenses so the focal plane is shallower and therefore it's more obvious!

Does anyone have any advice about using Focus Peaking on the GH5 with vintage lenses?

If I set it to Low then it isn't accurate enough, and if I set it to High then I think the lens is too soft for it to think anything is in focus, so it's not much help.

Any other focus assists I can use in-camera?  I know this is something that a good external display would help with, but it would make my setup too big so I'm stuck with the in-camera features.

1 hour ago, Yehouda said:

The real question is "Can we use techs like autofocus or IBIS on a film set ?"

I live in France and I can tell you that many people are very conservative about that. They say that you can't use AF because movies are only made with cameras which have PL mount with manual PL glasses so for them it is literally impossible to use AF. Even worse, many people think it is forbidden!

There are many exemples of great movies made with DSLRs and photo glasses. If AF works why don't use it on appropriate situations? If IBIS is relevant on some case why don't use it? When I said to some peole it was a pity that P4K lacks AF and IBIS they replied "it is a cinema camera so it is normal if there is no AF and IBIS"... wow... It is time to break the old rules!

I guess that would be the question if everyone shot on a film set.  Which is part of the reason for these discussions - old timers who assume you're shooting on a set and can control the lighting and whatever, and then the unwashed rabble that have barged their way into the industry and film in their homes, parks, in the street, doing so in many cases with no plan, no control over the settings, perhaps no knowledge of what the settings mean, and unless they have a floppy screen they even film without even looking.  

It's no wonder people don't understand why some features they don't need would be useful to someone else.

I agree that it's time to break the old rules.  We're getting there.  If the current trends continue, the only step required in making a great video will be saying "Hey Siri, can you make a cinematic film of Spot playing with his ball in the backyard, and make it have happy music" and then just stand back and watch as the drones all spring to life, film from all the angles with AI-Dog-eyeAF, then dock and download the footage where Siri will edit and grade it, and then ask you where she should upload the video.

2 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Be aware that on the GH5 the ETC is clean in 4K but in HD at higher ISOs it has a lot of noise.

Thanks, that's good to know.

I guess it makes sense as ETC doesn't have any downscaling to hide the noise, and those 1080 pixels are larger than those 4K ones when looking at the output files.

All the more reason to have fast primes!

I'm driven to fast primes anyway because the zooms are slower on crop sensors so getting that depth and separation is harder.

15 hours ago, Thpriest said:

I have shot a whole wedding on the 17.5mm to see what it was like and it turned out fine (GH5 with ETC mode you have a 17.5-24mm/FF 35-48mm, I think).

This is very similar to my thinking and good to hear you had positive results.  I shoot travel and family videos, and while not the same as weddings, they share a lot in common, especially getting the shot the first time and not directing or getting in the way too much.

I'm just putting my lens kit together for my new GH5 and figured that I needed a super-wide to capture those "wow" scenic moments, a tele for tight shots and a 35 / 50mm walk-around lens for the middle 80% of shots.  I'm tossing up which lens that will end up being, but with the ETC mode a 35mm / 49mm equivalent lens gives the two most useful focal lengths without having to change lenses all the time.  Just brilliant!

I haven't played with the digital zoom on the GH5 yet, but when I was considering an A7III I looked at the digital zoom from it and it was perfectly usable up to about 1.5X (and not good  beyond that) so there might be a bit more flexibility in there for us.  Depending on what format you're delivering in, and what codec you're using, cropping in post might also be an option.

1 minute ago, Goose said:

I had trouble using an adapter in my GX80 - I suspect the adapter had a speed limit but dont know.

I've tested the cards I have with and without each of my adapters and didn't find any difference but that was only up to the speed of the Samsung EVO which was my fastest micro card.

If the adapter has dirty contacts then that might make a difference perhaps? Some adapters could also be cheaply made.

Given sufficient quality, which is less than people think as @webrunner5 says, a video camera can be viewed as 25 fps burst mode (or even 50/60 fps) stills camera.

Why bother with trying to nail 'the decisive moment' when you can find that moment in post and extract a still.

You can say that is lazy, or you can say that it's using the technology to get better results, but you can't deny that it can work.

17 minutes ago, TurboRat said:

If you're shooting events, travel videos ,you don't want to be the guy who always lugs around his monopod or tripod. IBIS is not essential but try walking around and shooting places without IBIS. I've shot with cameras without it and with only lens OIS and I feel like the shakiness is too distracting to show to clients, friends, and family. And I wan't to be inconspicuous when I'm in a crowd and not to be the guy lugging around a monopod, tripod, gimbal, lens etc. I feel like people usually don't act natural in front of the camera - sometimes they hide their faces, look directly at the videographer, avert their gaze, etc that I can't get the shots that I want. Again, it always depends on the situation, and you can turn it on or off on most cameras with IBIS if you don't want it

That guy is me (in shooting travel videos anyway) and after not getting the stabilisation I wanted in some shots I bought a Gorillapod 5K (the largest one) and a phone gimbal for wide shots, but ended up not taking them out anywhere as my camera setup was already large enough for people to at funny around me, even in tourist spots.  At one location I noticed a guy with a tiny camcorder and a monopod and geez, the guy might have had a camera the size of a kit lens but the monopod made him stand out like nothing else!

I try and get shots of travel legs to use as scene change shots and I normally just get them with my iPhone, but even that attracts attention in train stations and the like, with people staring at the camera and making me wonder how much attention I'm getting from security and the like.

12 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And I always find it pretty crazy that just about anyone will let you take a picture of them with a Cellphone. That is one reason they are so popular. Hey and guess what it works. IBIS, OIS or what ever it is and AF.

I go to a lot of spots where that's not even true anymore, but that's probably just coincidence.  IIRC @jonpais has said that in Vietnam people don't care, so I guess it varies from place to place.  Plus the new challenge of grown men with cameras around kids being automatically judged means that I basically can't record anywhere that people swim, many angles in parks, etc.

9 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

@kye As you can see, in context, I used the word 'many' in "many seem to agree". Also, "is this the way things are going" is also a fairly general term. How did you take this so personally? If you did, I have no qualms in apologising so, I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked. 

Thanks, but I read that as many people tend to agree that all people are too lazy.  I admire that you're willing to put in effort into your posts, but you're not quite there in getting across what you mean.  This is a common problem because people assume that everyone reading their messages has the same background, context, tastes, clients, or mood as they do, which obviously is a barrier to proper communication.

20 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

@kye My question was, are people who expect 'cinematic' images really too lazy to focus a camera or use some kind of support because these contribute to the 'cinematic' look just as much as IQ (and lighting). 

I think being "cinematic" is a fad, and that most people who attempt it aren't aware of the technical aspects that go into it.  So basically it's a lack of education.  Like most people who buy and expensive DSLR and expect that professional looking images will just collect on the memory card if they point the camera in the general direction of the subject and spray-and-pray on full-auto.

The other huge aspect of these discussions is that new camera features enable new genres of film-making.  There are people who earn a living shooting skydiving films.  If someone wanted to make those 100 years ago it might not have been possible because the cameras were too heavy, or whatever, and there they would have been jumping up and down about how light-weight cameras are critical, and all the people who made films on tripods at locations where trucks could drive to would have been saying "film-makers are so lazy right now".

Anyone who has a camera more modern than an original Bolex with 1950's quality film stock is:

• too cheap to pay for film,
• too lazy to get film developed,
• too impatient to wait for it to be developed and sent back,
• too fancy to use basic edits,
• too amateurish to sync sound in post,
• too lazy to get lighting to ensure the DR isn't too wide,
• too fake to write a good story without relying on VFX, green screens, or, you-know, COLOUR.
• etc etc..

The above list looks completely ridiculous to most of us now because we've come to see the benefits of things like in-camera audio, and the flexibility (and cost savings) of higher DR cameras, but when someone who makes tripod films with sets and controlled lighting says that someone making wedding films, adventure films, travel films, doesn't need the new features, then that's EXACTLY what they sound like to the people who use and value those features.

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Calm down Kye I wasn't calling you lazy if that is what has made you aggressive. I was talking in a general term.

If you're going to talk "general term" then you should be specific with your language - try saying things like "Most people are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod" instead of saying "People are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod".  I tend to think of myself as a person, so naturally I included myself in the statement you made, which was about "people" and not "most people".

I'm personally pretty sick of other people on this forum telling me what I do and don't need on my shoots based upon what they do and don't need on theirs.  If you're going to come in and use language that applies to "people" without acknowledging that some people / situations / projects don't fit your statements, then yeah, you're going to piss me off (and look like an arrogant asshole to everyone who has ever had needs that were outside your sweeping statements).

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

I could list a few different ways you could have got that shot or something very similar without IBIS but that's not the point of the thread.

The phrase "IBIS" is literally in the title of this thread.  I would appreciate you listing a few ways for me to get a slider shot in that situation.

Either I learn something, or you learn something.  Either way I hold you accountable for your sweeping and half-baked statements.  I write my posts with consideration and admit when I'm wrong, I'd encourage you to do the same.

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Sometimes limitations cause us to think more creatively.

I love it when people trot this old chestnut.  It's a crutch.  Sometimes the only tool for the job is the only tool for the job.

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

but then Im not the one making black and white statements that a camera is unusable if it doesn't have IBIS or AF.  

No, but you are the one making black and white statements about "People are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod".

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Im not here to pick on individual shots, yes IBIS and AF can be useful. I just don't think that a camera without them is unusable and the notion that it is kinda perplexes me hence the thread. 

I get it, there's lots of hyperbole and polarised thinking, but unfortunately you've offered up some here as well.  This seems to be a case of "he that dost protest too much".

1 minute ago, A_Urquhart said:

I agree, but it is based on a ridiculous statement which many seems to agree with. I'm just interested to know if this is the way things are going. People are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod and too lazy to focus the camera but then use the term 'not cinematic' when judging a cameras image. Kinda strange to me.

Kye's points are also perfectly valid, different tools for different jobs but people in discussions expect a camera to do everything perfectly and have every feature under the sun otherwise it's not workable. 

I just think people are getting lazy. Like slowmo, it's easy to shoot nice looking slowmo so people are getting lazy and shooting everything in slowmo......

You don't get it.

Please explain to me how I am being lazy in the below situation, and how if I worked harder, I would be able to get a slider shot without bars in the foreground if I had more equipment.

By using my IS and shooting hand-held I was able to get a slider shot, something that was appropriate for the film I was making.

I guess you are too stupid to understand that situations like this exist, and that other people shoot in them.