Anaconda_

1 hour ago, cantsin said:

I keep being skeptical that this will be an achilles heel for using the camera as a travel/documentary/run-and-gun camera in dusty or humid environments.

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Danke @cantsin

I also think this curious motion of taking in and taking out air through a fan and open vents is its archilles heel (and which is common to the Z1 Cam E2 as well). 

The BM production Cam has a similar design. You can see right through from top to bottom of it. I can only assume the other cameras in their catalogue have similar designs. 

I think it'll be OK. Maybe not in a sandstorm, or very heavy rain, but there will probably be some kind of raincoat available for those situations soon after release.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304877-REG/panasonic_dmw_xlr1_xlr_microphone_adapter.html
The Panasonic DMW-XLR1 is a specific pro in favor of just the GH5.

But if you start including optional extras in this list, then it's going to be endless. In that case the articulating screen isn't a plus just for the GH5S as the others can just use a monitor to achieve the same end.

Great comparisons. You should also add internal 4k50/60p to the Pocket as that's a huge factor for a lot of people's interest. Myself included. Also likeable CEO haha

But also maybe add about release times?

14 minutes ago, hansel said:

Regarding HFR the website states that it shoots the usual stuff in up to 1080p60. BUT nothing between windowed 120fps and 60fps. It would be great to have at least another threshold of whatever fps before it crops in....

What other framerate would you want? The only one between the two, based on a 30p standard would be 90fps, but I've not heard of any camera that does that.

19 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

I can assure you that the "Deposit is non-refundable" text was there on Monday. ( it was when I ordered mine, and I'm 1st in line ) I have seen it on every pre-order product that I have ordered through them.

 

Damn, that sucks. The only reason I preordered was because I made sure 3 or 4 times that the deposit was refundable. If it wasn't I'd have just waited and got it a few weeks/months later.

In fact, I did a cheeky one and put in a pre-order at two different stores, both offer refunds on the deposit, so who ever ships it to me first gets my business, the other gets a cancelled order. Worst case, I get 2 on the same day and take one back, unopened for full refund and some lucky shopper can buy one without having to be on a preorder list. 

Edit: Both stores are listed on Blackmagic's site as authorised dealers, so I know they're legit.

25 minutes ago, RWR said:

Ineresting..I have the impression most favor BMDs "look" over Sony.

I think they mean the physical appearance of the camera. I quite like it. It looks like Batman's camera. In fact, from now on when I see 'BM' I'm going to read it as Batman.

5 minutes ago, Jim Giberti said:

ProRes Raw is defintely not exclusive to Atomos.

 

Could be that BM were keeping this so secret, they hadn't applied for the license before the announcement? Just included the codes they already have licenses for. And they were just as surprised as us to see the words 'Prores RAW' written in a banner at the convention.

I really can't see them releasing this camera without it included.

I still have the Z Finder, going to stick it on top and voila, tilting, twisting, spinning monitor for those handheld shots. Expose and get it looking right on the BM screen and then compose and focus via the Z Finder. It'll also give me that extra point of contact for the handheld work. 

Thinking about it, if you can turn off the BM monitor, I might be able to squeeze another few minutes out of the battery.

When this thing ships, what will you also buy with it?

I notice it doesn't come with a battery, so this is my list:

2x battery ------- I already have 2 so 4 should give me a good start

XLR cable ------- I think these come in packs of 2, but spares are nice

128gb SD card OR C.Fast ------- I'll be mostly shooting ProRes, so SD is more likely, but then again buy nice or buy twice, C.Fast can handle everything, SD might struggle with RAW.

128gb USB-C thumb ------- for those times when my main card is full

10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I'd rather have an internal eND than have 4K 60fps

I always hear people saying BM is bad in low light, and that's been fixed with dual ISO, so now people are saying it's letting in too much light and we need NDs. Jeez.

You can stick an ND filter on the end of your lens, but you can't add lowlight capabilities or double the fps afterwards. NDs would be nice, but far from a reason not to buy this camera.

1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

Is a pity it doesn't have more than one output from the BMPCC4K, as then you could have a LUT on one output for the client and no LUT for your own monitoring. 

I wonder if you could use USB-C as a monitoring output. It obviously sends the picture out to record to thumbdrives so what about a USB monitor?

2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Precisely. Paul Leeming has already promised to make a LUT for the Pocket 4K.

That's brilliant, I assumed he would, but didn't know he already promised. In theory then, you can make the BMPCC4KiiABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ and any other camera match up pretty well with just a few clicks, and fine tune from there. Luckily you can't be understocked for LUTs because I think that's going to sell very well.

3 minutes ago, cojocaru27 said:

still no footage from the camera itself yet? 

 

I saw an interview where Grant Petty said he's been unable to film, because he can't walk around with a prototype camera incase he was spotted and it leaked. Now they're at NAB until the end of the week, but he's hoping to film some stuff on Friday. My guess is we won't see that footage, but they'll be releasing something within a month or so. just my guess though.

8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

It did seem very strange to me to say that about a camera which doesn't have a screen that can face you!! :-/

I would also hold a camera with my right hand if I was going to film myself, and I assumer most right handed people would do the same, so that extra record button won't be all that helpfull. In the presentation, Grant noted he was left handed, and so it's perfect for him. Selfish man! 

I remember them saying they already have an open RAW format in Cinema DNG, so want to see what ProRes RAW will add for the user before applying for the license. I can't see why they wouldn't include it and I doubt Apple would say no. Blackmagic have always used ProRes, so why would Apple stop them now?

Anyway, those images look fantastic and I can't wait to see how it'll look in the real world. The lighting on that set is very deliberate, which makes sense. As always though, seeing how it works in daylight, or moon light, or candle light is going to be exciting in the run-up to release

2 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I have to say, after a side by side hands on next to my GH5 and GH5S... well it did fell a bit like a cheap toy. Nowhere near the build quality of those cameras. You can immediately tell corners were cut.

But what you held wasn't what they'll ship. The models that we get will be made with a different material, so I wouldn't judge that too quickly for now.

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm wondering if you can have a baked in LUT on the HDMI output whilst simultaneously recording RAW without one?

It offers some interesting possibilities if you can....

You can if you record to an Atomos recorder :P 

7 minutes ago, Mokara said:

Most people who shoot video don't transcode however, nor do they use external recorders. Most editing when it comes to cameras in general is simple stitching together whatever comes out of the camera, which is why things like H.264 and such are important in cameras for general use. 

That's true, it depends what kind of camera users you're talking about. I took it to mean people in TV, film, music video and documentary, who do transcode everything to the same codec, often ProRes, which is why Atomos and Blackmagic have recorders.

A lot of YouTubers, from what I can see on the channels I see pop up, are still using Canon dSLRs so... do we make our purchases based on theirs? Despite the name of this website, the EOS line is far from loved on here right now (aside from that one, magical one with the 5 in it).

As has been said many times in this thread and all over this forum, choose the camera for the job. If this doesn't fit your needs, buy something else. I for one, am excited to have ProRes 4k50p in camera. It's going to make my kit bag a hell of a lot lighter.

7 minutes ago, Mokara said:

What would this camera be used for? If you are shooting on a set piece there are better options, and if you need mobility there are better options. I think the market for something like this is very limited, likely mostly people at the margins of the profession with extremely thin budgets. Students and those sorts of people. 

I think it's going to be ideal for music videos and documentary filmmaking (my line of work). They're often controlled environments where mobility plays a huge factor, you're often not looking for a super fast turn around, and quality is key. Of course 4k60p (50p for me in PAL land) in camera will be amazing for music videos.

If you want a quick turn around, sure, this isn't the best camera, I mean, you need to grade it for a start, unless you bake in a LUT, but then why bother? It's a nice option, but I don't really see the point. The difference between baking it in and doing it later in post will be minimal, and only pixel peeping douchbags - luck most of us - will ever notice, and only if they really try to poke holes.

My thoughts at the moment are, if you're going to try and get the right image in camera, don't buy this. If you want to play around in post, then this beats most others.

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Suddenly noone can shoot without IBIS, RAW and dozens of thousands of ISO!

God forbid you have to twist the end of your lens to focus on something. What is this, 2017?

7 minutes ago, Mokara said:

The Codec isn't miles ahead of anything in consumer cameras, it is actually far less sophisticated. Basically what BM are doing is making up for lack of modern processors capable of handling high compression and offloading the task to post by generating huge data instead. That is the main reason they are able to offer the camera at a low cost. It is also the main reason why the camera is not appropriate for consumer use (which those cameras you are so dismissive of ARE). 

And that is not to mention other things like AF performance and in camera stabilization.

You could look at it that way, or you could see it as putting the post processing control in the hands of the user. I think people are so excited because the tech isn't making a lot of creative decisions for them, you can chose exactly how each frame is going to look.

As long as what you shoot is in focus and is somewhere around the right exposure, all the rest can be fixed, adjusted, twisted and pushed to the limits. Try doing that with most other commonly used codecs and you run into a lot of problems. 

I think if using ProRes was the cheaper, easier route, many more cameras would offer it as an option. Especially considering a lot of people encode all their footage from whatever their camera shoots into ProRes before editing. Or invest in external recorders to get the ProRes files in real time. That process is either time consuming, or expensive - around the same price as this camera in fact. This simply cuts out the BS and gives you what you want and more in the first place. 

AS usual though, that may not be the best thing for everyone in every situation... blah blah blah

22 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

The nice thing about the new Pocket is it should hold its value for a long time. Plus, if you preorder with a credit card through B&H they won't charge it until it ships

I just found a place in Holland where you pay 100e deposit and they'll send monthly updates on progress (so they say). Deliver to your house same day they come into stock and the best part is you can cancel the order and get the deposit back at any time between now and release.

I normally don't pre-order stuff, but there's literally no reason not to here.

The guy said he's got a meeting with BM Europe tomorrow, and will call me with more info on when to expect the delivery. I'll be sure to post here if there's anything worth mentioning.

What about using the WD Passport pro thing as a charger / recording media? Seems like the perfect device for just that.

BM should look into making the HDMI an input too, so you can put one on top of the other to film those selfie shots people are so worried about.

It would also double as a ProRes recorder for any other camera, putting Atomos out of business as well haha!

Am I wrong thinking the BM windows at 120fps, but not 100fps? If so, that's great for PAL land :D