anonim

I agree with most of this but in hindsight, with the release of the X-T3, the GH5 should have cost $1500 at release... $1000/$1250 now. The GH5s should have been $2000 at release... $1500/$1750 now. The S1... $2000. The S1R... $2500. And finally, the S1H... $2999.
I mean as you said, the G90/95 is barely an upgrade from the G80/85 and it cost $400+ more at release... 
Also, the G90/95 should have the high bitrate, all-i 1080p. The S1 doesn’t even have it... Panasonic is doing some strange things. It seems like they’re protecting lower models?!?! I don’t care what anybody says about IBIS and professional environments... the GH5s should have had it!

I'd point to GH5 as a pattern of well balanced expectation and probably already deserved status of rare legend. But everything changed with Panasonic's calculation with GH5s that came almost year after, with price that inaugurated steps of +500, nothing less. Why I'm still on thread about no existing camera with just hook thrown to users - is to express worry and respect for Panasonic GH2's spirit. I was eager to buy GH5s, idea of make a pair with GH5 is clever and nice with their specs that complement but not surpassing each other - but  price was restrictive, tolerated just from those who can afford curiosity, who can immediately return expense etc. - but that's the moment where Panasonic lost balance with lower base or more need-to-move-fast base of indie filmmakers, staying stubborn while witnessing enormous success of Pocket 4k in spite of all its expected quirks...
Around me - no one of the extremely rare buyers from industry (planning to use it as B or C or sometimes A camera) didn't keep it longer than year, while still keeping GH5 -  every single one go to Pocket 4k. If I remember correctly, one of the benchmark user with great skill and opportunity whose works I admire greatly - mr Peters - in thread devoted to what to buy next to pair with GH5, didn't choose GH5s in spite of easiness he probably could return expense. How much all of that could be different just if Panasonic placed initial price of GH5s to 2000, showing also in that way that it is complementary camera? It seems to me that Panasonic made rigid long road projection of prices for products on producing line - and stubbornly stay with that projection as leading imperative. My feeling is that GH2's leading spirit was different, govern with more flexible idea of getting users at first place, not taking money form them. 
Look just numbers of pages in thread about P4k and GH5s that are closest competitors as could be... Grounded on fact information about disaster of sale I have, as wrote, just for my region of Europe... GH5s, produced initially in  far less pieces dropped price accordingly to GH5 (but always too late for better sale because of initial level), and at the moment reach around +/-1400 pounds, while GH5 is on the level +/- 1000 p. with 2 years warranty (that's where I can buy them with lowest price). But it is too late - with all enormous number of targeted users who already went with Pocket 4k and patiently/proudly wait their subscribed acquisitions to come. Panasonic even ignore better priced offer from Zcam, company that should be considered as hand made one in comparison with Panasonic mass production capacity.
I know that +/- 500 can be seen as too much or as not so significant. But, there surely exists some interesting threshold tolerance in users, when we started to react psychologically, not just as consumers. That's threshold of perceived treatment and global strategy profile or direction of manufacturers. (Maybe worth to note about direction is that Panasonic priced G90 in level of XT3 and Pocket 4k.) That's threshold when we more seriously start to look around weighting offers of others. I simply worry that Panasonic's dedicated team again makes even bigger mistake with this one 4000 for dream camera announcement. Camera that for months will tiе for itself greatest part of developing resources of Panasonic's division.

$2000 for a camera that shot 4K 60p, 4K 4:2:2 and had class leading stabilization in 2017 was overpriced? 
We're literally only now seeing cameras that come close to the capabilities of the GH5. The price decrease is because of how much competition has shown up in the 2 years since release. 

I've been following the announcement of this camera and after all the fancy specs that sounds really good on paper, I've realized that, at least for me, this "resolution race, give me more K's stuff" have come to an end. Why? Because if some client ask me specifically for a 6K job I have a lot of better tools than this camera. If you truly need 6K/4K you probably have the budget to rent a RED Dragon/VV/Alexa with far more image quality, lenses, codecs. 
This camera sits in a really weird spot, because $2000/$2500 cameras are really good. But if I'm going to spend $4000 (add 3000-4000 for cages, batteries, monitors and some lens), maybe save some more money and I will instantly start looking on a more capable tool with a real jump on image quality and ergonomics like a C200 or a used C300MKII, or maybe a used RED. All of them with a good "name" for commercial and indie work. Or if I'm going to shoot an indie movie I can rent an Epic Dragon pack for $1500 a week and got far better quality and workflow.

I noted the same immediately, there are even problems with slight defocusing. (Even nothing to say about choose of actors/dancers and coreography in comparison with some other promo clips, say for Eva 1.) For me, at the moment pretty disappointing, especially keeping in mind pompous advertising of cine dream result. Maybe interesting to remind for comparison
https://vimeo.com/234811303

The footage is well shot, lit, and graded, but am I the only one surprised at how soft it looks generally?  I know clinically sharp is not an ideal to chase anyway, but the majority of the footage on that compilation looks soft and mushy to my taste.

Very nice!
Shot on GH5 and GH5S.

I'll be modest and minimal - at this moment: update from any manufacturers of Pocket 4k specs and accordingly proportional price for improvements that include absence of fear of bugs, internal SSD slot and 1000 nit flip screen... it will not hurt if olympusian IBIS would be also there.

What I'm proud for is reaction of user base, including this forum. Passion and seriousness, in spite of different angles and voices, I think that make serious corrective impact. It seems that S1 price now is mostly in the acceptable and balanced frame for those who, whatever the reason be, need FF - all of that exclusively due to corrective force of market.

Really without irony, I actually admire people that use AF lenses - every time I tried that, I find myself as stupid without possibility to directly communicate with lens... Also without aperture ring I'm lost. I feel lens as manual painting instrument - I sold nice collection of Contax Zeiss just because Leica R's set feels better in that regard

What I'm proud for is reaction of user base, including this forum. Passion and seriousness, in spite of different angles and voices, I think that make serious corrective impact. It seems that S1 price now is mostly in the acceptable and balanced frame for those who, whatever the reason be, need FF - all of that exclusively due to corrective force of market.

Really without irony, I actually admire people that use AF lenses - every time I tried that, I find myself as stupid without possibility to directly communicate with lens... Also without aperture ring I'm lost. I feel lens as manual painting instrument - I sold nice collection of Contax Zeiss just because Leica R's set feels better in that regard

Really without irony, I actually admire people that use AF lenses - every time I tried that, I find myself as stupid without possibility to directly communicate with lens... Also without aperture ring I'm lost. I feel lens as manual painting instrument - I sold nice collection of Contax Zeiss just because Leica R's set feels better in that regard

I'm glad and agree... just I'm little bit sad (and don't like at all) that buyers in USA have privileged price and offers in comparison with rest of the world. Also, I just can't quite understand voices that are in hurry to affirm any starting lust-price decision as "normal" or adequate, using endless argument of fan battles. In my mind, we all are cooperative and corrective force. As it can be seen, few months after S1 reached shops, price and offers are significantly changed... What than is the feeling of those who talked about appropriate initial price as they are owed to be manufacturer's ambassadors...

I think this is going to be priced out of reach for most indie filmmakers and jobbing one-man-bands.  Where I can see this being really popular is as a b-cam, tricky-corner cam, backup body, etc. on professional crewed shoots.  If I was DPing on something critical with a top end cinema camera, I'd really love to have something like this sitting in a bag on standby.  It looks like it's capable of being tuned to deliver footage that could live alongside top level stuff quite convincingly (based on how the S1 is shaping up).
I can't think of a better combo for that particular usage (which is big money if it really catches on).
Also, small productions (web series', multi-cam doc, etc.) might be interested.  There's a lot of money to be saved over full-blown cinema cameras, especially if you're buying several units.
I just can't see solo operator / owners coming in in large numbers.  So far, there's not enough to suggest value over the other fantastic cameras in the sector.  Plus, if you really need to step up in quality the fully-featured cinema cameras start to come into range for just a bit more.  Also, the inbetweeny market is starting to come to life a bit (Z Cam), so there's that temptation too.
I'm not so fixated on either FF or 6K as selling points.  Of course, I'm happy to take them if on offer, but give me a really super-functioning S35 camera at 4K and my money's yours.  The market as a whole may feel differently!
So far Panansonic's L-Mount offerings all seem perfectly interesting, but from a selling POV, a bit niche.  I hope they know what they're doing.

If I let myself dream for a second.. of beeing a Panasonic exec, I would do the following with L-mount:
Add PDAF, just pay for it, I dont care how you do it, there is no exquse right now not to have it (litterally all other players have it) Sell S1 for 1999, include all promiced updates at start for free Add S1H for 2999 instead of S1R (which no one needs), add build-in electronic ND, add BRAW support, add 4k 90\96 even 8 bit is fine + sell detouchable tiltable EVF fopr 500$ separatly Ask Tamron to make their 28-75 and upcoming 17-28 for L-mount or ask Sigma to create similar lenses Make a good 1.8 nifty-fifty fo 500$ \ ask Sigma That would be a system a lot of ppl would be very intrested in including me. What Panasonic dont undestand is that they need to provide better specs for less money in the beginning of the system to compete with Sony and Canon. They could do it at their own expense. Pana is a big company they have lots of money so they can afford to loose it or work with zero profit for a year ot two just to gather a user base. Then you can start making profit and sell expensive glass.

The overpriced infinitesimal lens selection part + no reliable AFC part
Fine for you is not a criteria of a sucsesfull camera on an already crowded FF market. Drawing an example of RED or Arri is inadequate as they are specific cinema cameras that imply a CREW and a budget, I could have extra 5 ppl helping me to pull focus, comb my hear, blow my dick and read me news simualtenesly, if I am shooting with a 50k camera as well. A single cinema lens might cost around 20k alone, so thats a production level at which one can afford a dedicated focus-puller-boy (or girl for that matter, I prefer girls)
Suggestion about having an extra 6400 in your pocket is quite funny. So I have to buy all the extra lenses for it right? And my focus-pull girl will carry it and shoot with it herself I guess. Need to remember about her salary as well. I dont want to invest in 2 completly different systems just cos Pana doesnt want to implement PDAF ignoring their users asking it for years. 
Will it? And only 1 year, why are you so sure about that? You think cheap Sigma lenses will solve everything? Not for me - they are a) huge old sigma lenses with build-in adapter, b) they have no CAF! Noup thanks. So it might be 3-5 years all we know or might be never. And I dont want to make such an expensive guess. I want to invest in system and start shooting day one. You can wait ofcourse but dont try to sel it as a feature. Its a huge drawback of an L-mount in general. 
We are talking about how to sell a 4000$k DLSM with an unpopular new mount, where both other of its relatives have failed in sales. Yes, you need to give customers MORE than just beeing equal or slightly better. Why is it hard to make build in-ND for fuck sake? Who needs shutter in a cinema-oriented camera for 4$k? And yes I would critisize everyone for not having a built-in ND in a video-oriented DSLM. But Pany is not in a position where they can make a slighly better camera with a miserable autofoucs, absent lens lineup and charge whatever they want. And the market shows that. 
I think its been answered many times before. Flip out screen is good not only for selfies. Its a generally more comfortable screen for video shooting. I would go further and make screens like Sharp did on their 8k MFT camera - now thats how you make it, if you want attract customers. Not an expensive or very innovative thing to do, but surely an attractive for buyers. You just want to ignore sales and marketing demand concetrating on few ppl who dont need aoutofocus or have external monitors. 
We are not talking about how good Pany cameras are stand-alone vs competition spec to spec. We are talking about L-mount system cost\features in general vs other systems. And right now they dont look very good. 
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For myself I have decided that I am not moving to a system with a shitty unreliable autofocus. Whats good having all those 4k60p 10 bit 422 raw bla bla if its out of focus? And dont start that old song about "pros doing manual focus for years". They've been doing many thing for years - with a crew and a budget. I need camera to work for 1 man crew. I need it to work on a gimbal or flycam. And I need it to be fast and efficient. Autofocus solves that for me. I love Pany cameras, I own one, but I guess Pany doesnt need my money anymore. 

Dream... something the most precious.

But isn’t this the head scratcher? Nobody is doing it because there’s likely not a market for it. The people who are using a Red or Venice probably don’t want the form factor of the S1H and how many hybrid shooters really need or want 6K?
Dont get me wrong, as a no budget shooter that loves the practicalities the DSLR Revolution offered to indie filmmakers, I think the S1H is a great idea... if it had IBIS and was $3000 or less... preferably closer to $2500. But as it stands, I just don’t see the point of it? Being FF, it’s not a great B-Cam to a Varicam or EVA1. For the price, you may as well spend the little extra and get an EVA1. I don’t know... I’m sure it will have a nice image and I can see its appeal to a niche user... but... ehh... I’d rather have a P4K or an X-T3 and a Speedbooster. 

I think that those who pay for it 4000$-4500e and put Leica on it - simply will not see any moire (or it will be cinematic one, sort of anew-dreamy).

I never saw such funny brief-presentation speaker  I think we scared Panasonic and as result there's last minute dumping of price to the lowest strategic level

If it is - as seems - replication of GH line, than why to expect IBIS... We learned from many threads that all serious filmmakers don't use that stupid IBIS that produce microjitters and doesn't allow to put camera on cars...

Probably I'm too idealist, but I firmly think that keeping and going on with once upon a time true and enough enthusiastic spirit is the most important. Isn't is so that this very forum started along with art-for-all liberation impulse given with ML Canon 5D II and, even more, with GH2? Comparatively, all movie makers world has been shaken than with quality of these cameras that stay within reach even to students and other talented dreamers... Tones of serious movies were shot with Canon as B, many as A camera (and most directors has to admit that public wouldn't notice if all works had been done with Canon), Upstream  Color was done with GH2 - because these camera indeed were comparatively so capable...  And now, it seems to me that all of us are little bit forgeting our dreamer's past - of course, now we can provide more money, now we can pay more, most of us listening GAS thirst and escaping from bore living - but comparatively equally capable successors of 5D and GH2 today don't live at home of Panasonic and Canon, simply because they don't care for that great past spirit which made them so beloved and popular.
Of course S1H or A7SIII or GH6 are/will be beast - but not  anymore for new generation of young dreamers. And me idealist feel it as a curse.
Sorry to ask/remind obvious - what about Pocket 4K?

Agree, that's what I think also - disaster, chasing just for more money now, losing clear distinctive spirit... even as a cleverer business strategy.