webrunner5

I just ‘treated’ myself to another new (used) lens for my L Mount based system 🤑

Really eager to see if this might be the Foveon sensor which is (finally) coming, or indeed something even more into the cinema direction. 😁

Not sure if this has been shown yet?
 
 

I will preface this by saying I do not know all of the intricacies of digital stabilization or IBIS; I know the limitations, how they work, and what exceeds their capabilities but would definitely defer to a camera engineer on the specifics of why one system works better than others.
With that said, I can see why it would be plausible for smaller sensors to handle digital stabilization better. Just because the data is raw doesn't mean the information coming from the smaller sensor has the same resolving power or quantity of information as the larger sensors. The raw data from a smaller sensor will have less color data than the larger sensors otherwise there'd be no reason to make larger sensors. With less color data, it would take less processing power to stabilize the footage digitally (similar to two pictures shot from the same camera...the one with lots of color will be substantially larger than the one with less color in the scene). I do think the fixed lens helps, and I think like you said; GoPro, DJI, etc. had more incentive to get it right vs the MILC camera makers, but I don't think incentive is the only reason it works so well in smaller cameras. Another challenge is always battery life as well; the more processing power used for Digital IS, the worse the battery life will be; for larger cameras that could become a real problem.
As far as sensor size for IBIS, I am quite familiar with how it correlates to a car's suspension; but where the two diverge is that once again battery life is a concern with cameras whereas it is not a concern with cars. A larger sensor will require a more power hungry IBIS system to stabilize the larger sensor vs a smaller sensor.  IMO larger sensors and smaller sensors have relatively the same amount of "sensor travel" ability because the body size has nothing to do with the image circle. MFT sensors like the GH5 have an MFT image circle which will limit the sensor's travel just like the larger sensors.
Regardless of the specifics, Canon has clearly caught up and passed the competition in the IBIS department for their FF cameras. For Digital IS, I think at least for now the action cameras are still far ahead of gyro, IBIS, lens IS, and the digital IS from the other makers.
 
I had this problem with my footage shooting runway shows where they put a digital backboard behind the models, the flicker was terrible.....I added deflicker in post using Davinci Resolve and it did a great job. The main downside that I saw was that rendering was far slower, and so was editing, so I would recommend if you want to try this then complete all of the edits to the project first, then add the deflicker effect. You might be able to add an adjustment clip and add the deflicker there to fix the whole project at once, but I did not try that.
I have used deflicker in the past for timelapses but this was the first time I needed to use it to fix regular video footage.
Seems like a lot of fine print that goes along with gyro stabilization.
 
Now that is impressive, seeing the before really shows how much the gyro stabilization helps; it is definitely doing more than I thought it was. It would be really cool to see a camera with gyro, IBIS, lens IS, and digital IS all enabled at the same time.
It would be nice if all cameras offered gyro stabilization, it would be one more tool in our belt for stability. I would still prefer IBIS over gyro, but it would be nice to have options like in DR where you get to pick from 3 different types of post stabilization and get to test each one to see what works best for that particular shot. 
I would imagine that Canon could implement gyro stability at least in their cameras that have the electronic level since clearly they already have a gyro on them. Not so sure about the C70 and others in the cinema line. It does seem to me that Canon is playing a lot of catch up these days.

I think the gyro only works in 4K and you have to use only panny or oly lenses.

Yes, I had been looking at that first and was about to get one but then I stumbled on a mention of the Tokina and it seemed to me after a bit of research that it holds sharpness a bit better towards the corners and also there is very little vignetting other than the limits of the image circle.

I had that lens and did the hack myself. Yeah 13 to 14mm is about right on FF. Cheap thrills, the adapter is around $32.00 I think.

Personally, I LOVE being able to shoot open gate (whether it's 4:3 on a M4/3 or 3:2 on APS-C/FF). You don't lose anything at all (except larger files), it gives you the ability to reframe a DCI or 16:9 image vertically without cropping, and is far superior for tighter aspect ratios below 16:9. 1.66 is one of my favorite aspect ratios and so shooting 1.5:1 (as in the X-HT2s) is awesome.
I'm really shocked that Panasonic has been the only one to offer open-gate - whether it's 4:3 on the GH series or 3:2 on their S line, so I'm very, very happy to see Fuji offer it, especially on an APS-C/Super 35 sensor which is my preference for filmmaking. Also, I was extremely happy to see someone offer 6K - everyone seemed to jump straight from 4K to 8K (as far as MILC hybrids go anyway). 6K is, right now, pretty much perfect for me. Enough extra resolution to allow for cropping/reframing/stabilization and still end up with 4K, but not so much that the file sizes are overwhelming huge (and the processing power required, depending on the codec). Generally speaking, 1TB of 4K footage would require ~2-2.25TB for 6K and ~4-5TB for 8K. Once you get up there, mainly with SSDs, the cost difference above 2TB is huge.
Not to mention how much more unforgiving 8K is for focusing mistakes.
6K just always seemed like the sweet spot to me, and no one was offering it except the Canon R3. Which cost as much as an Ursa Mini Pro 12K or RED Komodo.

The "example" R7 video posted above is obviously color graded with teal and orange, and in no way shows the "colors' of the R7 or the DR, or skin tones.
Here is a video, shot in Clog3, in 4K 60p in crop mode, giving an almost 3X FF crop, using the cheap EF S 18-135mm kit lens. The "grade" is just the daVinci Studio transform from Clog3 and canon.cine color to REC709:
 
And this tests the audio, same specs as above:
 

Did record 4x 30min 8K Raw with 1.6 and, no wonder not having a fan, the camera does extremely overheat already after the first 30 minutes.  It just doesn't shut down like before.  Using it this way over and over again can't be healthy for cards, batteries and the camera itself.  So Canon is still correct with their protection advice and time limits.  The Sony A1 does also overheat and also shuts down. Nobody did criticize it while being much more expensive.  I never understood why a small 4000 Euro camera should be expected to deliver the highest image quality at unlimited recording times.

Use 180 degree rule and in most cases stabilization in post works fine. But of course it is used to smooth and compensate for small movement and jitter when camera itself is panning or moving rather slowly. I try to use proper technique while shooting in order to get stable footage at first place. Most of the time shoot handheld without gimbal. One of the keys to get stable footage without gimbal or IBIS or IS in lens is to use heavier rig (2-2.5 kg). The other is to use good technique, lots of tip and tricks. For example with top handle and 35mm or wider lens can even do short walks.
For long walks or runs will not shy away and use gimbal. Still proper walking technique is needed as gimbal can't compensate for up and down movement.
BMPCC 4K/6K Giro stabilization was kind of disappointment for me. In all tests normal 'warp' stabilization in Resolve worked better than gyro. Unfortunately there is no substitute for good shooting technique and heavier rigs or gimbals.
My observations are that in the professional video/cinema world nobody complains about camera size or rigs. You either go after ultimate picture quality (whatever this for you is) or convenience. I often watch this video about DP Hoyte van Hoytema and Christopher Nolan.
Why Christopher Nolan & Hoyte van Hoytema Films Everything In Camera & IMAX
Impressive how big the iMax 70 mm film camera is. Somebody has to help put it on Hoytema's shoulder. Аs they say: Go big or go home. 🙂

The R5 has hands down the best IBIS that I have ever used, I shot handheld a few shots with a 70-200 at 200mm and it was incredibly stable while filming closeups of people as a B-cam; so I do think modern IBIS systems can equal or be better than the BM gyro results. The difference for me is that when IBIS fixes instability there is no weird jitter or warping that I saw with the gyro results...at least not with the longer lenses (35mm and above).
The other benefit  of IBIS vs gyro is there is no cropping required...with IBIS what you frame is what you get, with post stabilization and gyro stabilization you have no idea ahead of time how much cropping will be needed. For my particular niche in the industry (fashion), it is very important to not have to crop because the crop could be in the worse possible place (middle of the model's head for example), rendering the shot unusable. Just because it shoots 6K doesn't mean you want to leave tons of room around every shot and frame differently to accommodate post cropping later; sometimes you need the exact composition that you shot.
Based solely on the video above, I think gyro stabilization is a lot like post digital stabilization....very good for certain types of movements and very jittery for others; whereas IBIS is excellent regardless of the movement.
DJI's Osmos and GoPros have the best In Body Digital Stabilization (IBDS?) out there. The working theory is that because the data rates are lower due to the smaller sensor, it takes less processing power to stabilize them (and other action cameras) than the larger cameras which is why their digital IS works so well. Another theory is that the sensor is simply larger for regular IBIS systems so the IBIS naturally will have to work harder to stabilize it. The GH5's IBIS for example blew away the FF competition for years in the IBIS department.
Manufacturers typically rate their IBIS system based on stops of light. For example, the R5 according to Canon has an IBIS rated at 8 stops of light...the highest in the industry for MILCs. Most manufacturers are rating their IBIS systems around 3-5 stops of light. I think the S5 was rated at 5 stops.  Not sure who invented light stops as a measure of IBIS performance, but it is the standard now. 
You can read more about how it is measured here:
https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/8-stops-image-stabilization/
I will say, after this past week, the R5 without a doubt has the best IBIS I've ever encountered in a FF body.  I could hand hold at 200mm and make it look like I was on a tripod for an extended length of time; very impressive in my book.

Yeah I have a Viltrox II EF/M4/3.
 

Thanks for the test Mike I will have to look into one.
 
 

Is this going to be a regular gig?
If it is then I'm going to go against the grain and say you should look at doing it like a regular music video and doing post-sync audio.
If they have a recording of themselves to lip sync to then great but if not then you can record it yourself in a more controlled environment and for the type of music that you are looking to record I'd recommend getting a pair of Samson C-02 mics. 
There are plenty of examples of them being used on YouTube for voice with acoustic like this one (though he's gone a bit wild with the panning to be honest). They include a foam pop shield but they're pretty sensitive to plosives so you might want to look at spending a few quid more on a better shield. Or a pair of tights and a coat hanger if you want to go old school improv.
The big bonus though is that they do a pretty competent job for indoor dialogue/interview scenarios as well so you'll find you get a lot more use out of them as an all round tool for other work. 
The even bigger bonus is the price in that they are £75 for a pair.
Recording the audio first and getting the musicians to mime to it will improve the end result immeasurably from the audio side obviously but also from the video side as you can do multiple takes and multiple shot sizes without having to concern yourself with the mic placement and capture quality.
Another alternative if you want to do it live with a recorder would be the Zoom H2n which has a very flexible microphone array in it which gives you some degree of post capture control. It doesn't get a lot of love but its actually a very interesting and practical device that can produce decent results in the field for what you are trying to do. 
Thomann do a variety of bundles for it starting at about £113 for the recorder on its own but I'd budget the extra £30 for the Rycote for it
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sw=zoom+h2n&smcs=3be5e9_3212
 

i have the gopro 9, fairly confident the stabilization is either on or off. I have not seen an option to lower the effect.
One thing to be aware of is when you use the stabilization it cuts into your frame width, depending on how bad the shake is you can lose a bit of real estate. i grabbed the following off a web site because i'm lazy at explaining things. 
But there’s a quirk that’s worth knowing about: when you’re shooting in the Wide field of view, you’ll end up with a slightly cropped imaged and lose some of the image around the edges. With the HERO6 Black, it’s about 5% of the image. With the HERO5 models, even more is cropped–about 10%. And because the Wide FOV is the default, it’s something you might run into often. With newer models with even more aggressive HyperSmooth stabilization, it can use even more of the frame for its stabilization buffer.
Other software stabilization options, like those in Final Cut Pro X and Premiere Pro, do the same thing. That’s because the way they work needs to cannibalize space from the edges of the frames in order to follow the rest of the frame smoothly.
Cropping vs Zoom
The cropping we’re talking about here isn’t technically the same thing as when we talk about cropping with still images in that it’s not actually making the dimensions of the final product smaller.
As an example, without stabilization, the 4K footage comes out of a GoPro with dimensions of 3840×2160. It will come out with exactly the same dimensions when you turn on stabilization.
So what’s actually happening is really a digital zoom, with the camera’s processor interpolating to replace the missing information. In practice, the degradation of the image quality is more theoretical than visual–you really can’t see the difference, although it’s technically there.
Hope that helps.

So you were here among us, only for complaining? Now that you've found the one... you've forgotten us?! ; )
 
Or a few short shots for once, I guess... ;- )

Just kidding...  🙂
My understanding is that Premier is probably still a better editor than Resolve (although Resolve is closing the gap) and that the main issue with Premier is that it crashes all the time.  Save early, save often.
In terms of colour though, we all love to think that the 5,984 controls that Resolve has are required for good colour, but it's not true - if you get the basics dialled in then you can get great looking images with the tools that basically any NLE has.

After saying I was done with gimbals, I gave my Star Wars stormtrooper white Crane 3 one final chance and for the very limited purpose I had for it, it worked OK with the S5 and kit zoom.
Just. I think it’s on the limit and the motors are having to work extra hard to balance it. 
I went with a QR plate on the base of the gimbal itself, so 95% of the time, all 3 axis are locked and it just becomes part of the tripod.
Slightiy wobbly if lightly shaken, but can’t fall over like a freestanding monopod would so a good workaround for me.

Looks like I’ve reached the point where premiere will be a necessity for some work I do 😞
 
So now I gotta break away from resolve a bit and start learning premiere. I’ll still color in resolve, though this exposure technique first mentioned in this thread will be very useful for quick grades in premiere. Honestly with this, along with turning CST into a LUT, I could probably replicate my grading process in premiere. I don’t do any complex grades, I simply like the organization and behavior of the tools available in resolve. 

I have spent 5 years on this forum complaining about every camera on the market. All I needed was 4K120, great reliable AF, IBIS, full frame, 10 bit, and great photo capabilities. We always had some of those specs in a camera but never all of them together in one package. 
Then the R5 was released. I sold my Sony, and been happily shooting ever since. You probably didn’t see me post anything since then. It has all the specs I listed and MORE (canon colors, great ergonomics etc). 
after 2Y of use I am still extremely happy with the R5. First time in 10y that I couldn’t care less about any camera release. 
the temperature issue is a joke. I have been shooting for 2 years and never got any overheating once. 

No worries, we have no choice so many times... LOL ;- )

This is basically just begging for a fairly modern GoPro or Insta360.  Lately, I've been using a GoPro mounted to my bumper and an Insta360 One R (Leica lens mod) on a rigid mount on my roof rack.  I drive a Wrangler which is definitely not known for a smooth ride - when I take it on really gnarly backroad trails, it's smooth to the point where it can be a bit disappointing (the footage no longer reflects just how bumpy the trail was).

I'd try a Hero 9 (or 10) and/or an Insta360 One R with a simple pole mount before spending too much time rigging up a crazy Z Axis or gimbal for your bigger camera.

Good point, “side grading” to a camera like that is a good idea. Or even a Panasonic s5 if I still want goodies like IBIS. 
I guess I wanted to see what I can do with what I already have, instead of have to sell a lot of my gear and go through that hassle. 

That is a very interesting phenomenon, and makes perfect sense when you think about it.....but I think in the real world it is nearly impossible to see in a typical scene. Your test scene had a lot of sharp edges and detail combined with a lot of shake and post stabilization; in a typical shooting scenario the camera is farther away from the subject, there's few if any sharp edges, and the camera is typically also moving in some visible direction; combine that with compression from online platforms and I don't think it would be discernable at all.
The biggest problem I have with post stabilization is trying to balance the warping effect that post stabilization adds to certain scenes especially when shooting with wide angle lenses or the motion you are trying to fix. For me, I am more trying to smooth a too sudden motion more so than actual camera shake. When using it to smooth out a start or stop in motion it is quite effective but sometimes I have to try all 3 options in DR before finding one that looks natural.
The one place where I think this phenomenon would be perceptible nearly always would be shooting detail shots for real estate. In real estate videos though you nearly always use sliders or gimbals for that very reason....too many sharp straight edges that would make any camera shake, post stabilization, or horizon tilt very apparent.
I think at the end of the day nothing beats true stabilization equipment, IBIS, Digital IS, and Post stabilization are all just tools to get you "close enough" when "close enough" is acceptable.