Cliff Totten

What is going on in Canon's head in the past 5 years. These guys are just getting stranger and stranger as the months and years go by. With all the Sony, BlackMagic and Panasonic offerings this year.....why in the Hell would anybody want this thing? What does it bring to the table that is not already better than this thing?
Who's super16 sensor is Canon going to use? Will it be a small Canon front side illuminated sensor that is based on 10year old architecture? Canon can get away with lousy large sensor production but there is no way they can challange Sony on small sensor efficiency. Not even close.
What off the wall "cripples" will Canon employ on this thing....lemme guess, MJPEG? Ony CFast recording? Even more crop on the sensor? No clean HDMI out?
Woah....weird and a sign that Canon is losing their marketing witts.

This is the most facinating camera I have ever seen in my life. Not just because of its technical ability or its ridiculously low price. Its the sheer marketing balls that BlackMagic has to challange Panasonic and Sony in such a cut-throat way. (Canon is so far out of this discussion that we cant even include them)
Here is the shocking part. If Sony didnt develop such an incredably advanced STARVIS IMX294 sensor, (or IMX272 ) would we be this excited for this camera? If this camera used a common CMOSIS or Fairchild MFT sensor that topped out at 800 ISO.....would all of these other great features be wasted?
Is the image sensor of this camera driving this entire show?
Has Sony single-handedly enabled or gifted the "small"  Micro 4/3 format with the power to actually compete with large sensor cameras?...(something M4/3 could never do in the past?)
Sony Semi Conductor company seems to really have turned the screws on Sony Imaging Company. Sony Imaging is forced to compete against new cameras that are using Sony's best core technology. They are competing against their own patents!
This is REALLY a massive industry shift...a true earthquake. We are going to see the shockwaves from this for years and years to come.
Once tbe genie is out, its VERY hard to push him back into his bottle!
 

If this truely is the GH5-S sensor than,....oh my God. This will be a MASSIVE industry earthquake. I dont think it will be possible understate how sick this thing will be for its price! Im certain it eill be hard to buy for 6 months,

Looking at this "new" FS5-II......
Is it possible that the FS5-II has ZERO new internal hardware components and 100% of the changes were just firmware changes?
Lol....nah, I'm sure Sony wouldn't do something like that.

This DPReview database tool really does allow us to strip away the processing and get under the hood of the GH5-S and "really" see what this sensor is taking in. For days we have seen this sensor compared to an A7S-II chip with pixel wells (photo sites) TWICE the size of the GH5-S. For days we have been thinking "how is this possible...I feel like Im seeing heavy ammounts of noise reduction"
So yeah,...that is the answer. After inpecting the raw sensor output, its very easy to see the A7S-II's actual signal to noise ratio significantly beats the GH5-S at every ISO/gain level. Even at a low 200 ISO.
Mystery solved. Its very hard to beat the laws of  "physics". I do give the GH5-S all the credit in the world though. I think Panasonic and Sony really did something very nice together on this camera. This in-camera processing is also pretty intense and is very well executed.
CT

We know for a fact that the GH5 IS a Sony IMX272. Although, it not verified, we have every indication this S model is an IMX294. Even the 14bit is another give away.
Im certain that when Tech Insights (Chip Works) gets this into their lab, de-solders it, X-Rays it, inspects it under their electron microscope and blue prints the entire sensors schematics, they will say its another Sony IMX sensor. (IMX294 or variant)
I could be wrong but i wasnt wrong on the GH5 either... :-)  (although I must admit that I was tipped off about it by a Sony engineer at the Sony NAB booth last year abour that GH5 sensor)

This DPReview database tool really does allow us to strip away the processing and get under the hood of the GH5-S and "really" see what this sensor is taking in. For days we have seen this sensor compared to an A7S-II chip with pixel wells (photo sites) TWICE the size of the GH5-S. For days we have been thinking "how is this possible...I feel like Im seeing heavy ammounts of noise reduction"
So yeah,...that is the answer. After inpecting the raw sensor output, its very easy to see the A7S-II's actual signal to noise ratio significantly beats the GH5-S at every ISO/gain level. Even at a low 200 ISO.
Mystery solved. Its very hard to beat the laws of  "physics". I do give the GH5-S all the credit in the world though. I think Panasonic and Sony really did something very nice together on this camera. This in-camera processing is also pretty intense and is very well executed.
CT

That is pretty much exactly what I expected.
I see some are not happy that it isn't the match of the better FF cameras in low light but I would say it looks amazing in low light FOR an M43 sensor.
The other stuff for video is why you should buy the camera, that it is competing with some better APSC sensors for low light is the bonus.      I can see some adding a GH5s to a GH5 for lower light (than the GH5) instead of a A7sii with a GH5. 

I remember seeing this IMX294 STARVIS sensor spec sheet last summer. I remember thinking;  "Wow, this would make a perfect sensor for a video camera...and it does 14bit readout?..."
Little did I know then, what we all know now.
Yup, its got a 14bit readout.
You can bet that the Panasonic DVX200 will be the next camera with this sensor. That is going to be a SWEET ENG camera. (if Sony allows it to be sold for that purpose, that is)
 

I think we need to be careful about wanting to limit the voices of idiots on the web. Everybody, no matter how despicable we think they are, has a right to speak their mind. I think we would all be going down a VERY slippery slope if we started censoring people that we think that dont have the morale values that we have.
The guy is a total ass. But he should have that right to be an ass. We certainly have the right to ignore him. Censorship is a very, VERY dangerous thing and its potential for abuse is massive once you start approving ways to justify doing it.
Censorship is FAR more dangerous to society than this dick-head ever will be.

I think we need to be careful about wanting to limit the voices of idiots on the web. Everybody, no matter how despicable we think they are, has a right to speak their mind. I think we would all be going down a VERY slippery slope if we started censoring people that we think that dont have the morale values that we have.
The guy is a total ass. But he should have that right to be an ass. We certainly have the right to ignore him. Censorship is a very, VERY dangerous thing and its potential for abuse is massive once you start approving ways to justify doing it.
Censorship is FAR more dangerous to society than this dick-head ever will be.

Thinking about the GH5-S. I really think that Panasonic and Sony Semiconductor really do team up beautifully together. With Sony's sensors and scaling engine teamed up with Panasonic's color science and feature marketing boldness, they make the GH5 one sweet camera.
I can only imagine what this "dynamic duo" will come up with in a possible GH5-S. This a combo that really makes the consumers the big winner. The only loser could be Sony Imaging Company!
Anybody that thinks that the GH5's MFT sensor does not compete with Sony's APS-C or full frame models....is lying to themselves.
 

The IMX294 is 10.7. But,...Im still not getting this "quad pixel" structure that it has and how that affects "actual" pixel count. Of course, we are still not sure that the GH5-S is actually using this sensor. It seems like they will but we wont know 100% until ChipWorks (TechInsights) tears the GH5-S down and X-rays it.
If Panasonic actually uses this chip and explains they are using a "quad pixel" array, than it's a 100% guarantee it's this Sony chip. However, Panasonic WILL go to great lengths to not discuss or give any "hints" that its a Sony chip. Panasonic is VERY against the idea if us all knowing who made the sensors they use. I had 3 Panasonic reps at NAB tell me "No, it's OUR chip in the GH5"
ChipWorks (TechInsights) actually does detailed analysis reports on many popular electronic devises. They de-solder chips, X-ray them, do cross section imaging and closely inspect with electron microscopes,...all the parts on a mainboard. They literally break down the foundry and manufacturing process of these sensors and sell the reports to companies that want to know how their competition builds their boards and who their suppliers are. They even map out the entire "inside" logic and schematic of a chip! VERY expensive analytic data! I cant afford it, nor would I even want to pay for it. However, the outside of the report does easily identify the sensor.

Anyhoo,...they absolutely nailed the GH5 with a Sony EXMOR IMX272 image sensor. So, sorry Panny and Sony,...you guys got outed,...dirty style! 
 
CT 

Guys,...this should blow your minds:
Sony A6500 vs. (potential) "GH5-S"
Physical sensor size and pixel count;
- Sony A6300/6500 (Sony IMX284) 24.3mp APS-C (593mm2) 
- GH5-S - (Sony IMX294) 11mp Micro 4/3 (373mm2)
______________________________________________________
Average photosite (pixel) size;
- Sony A6300/6500 = 593/24.3mp = 24.4  
- GH5-S = 373/10.3mp = 36.2 
Compared together = 36.2/24.4 = 1.48x LARGER pixels on this "GH5-S"! 
This Sony STARVIS IMX294 sensor "should" easily out perform the A6300/6500 in low light conditions. This does not even take into account the "quad pixel+ dual shutter speed" HDR modes that nobody understands yet.
This only thing that we are going to lose is the lovely 5k oversample that we all love in the GH5 today  :-(
WOW!!!!!

You guys are talking about having 10 stops for grading down to a 6 or 7 stop rec709 delivery. And, yes,...that is perfectly OK.
But rec709 is now pretty old and wont last forever. In 5 years most TVs will easily display 10 stops or even much more. BT2020 and HDR will be very common and you will need to deliver in a bigger color space.
More dynamic range will be very "common" in the very near future. Even YouTube and Vimeo have HDR 10bit codecs going into homes now. Its at an early stage but its already happening on properly flagged HDR uploads.

Look at the back grip og Casey"s camera. Its got a very different hand grip. The molded rubber is thicker and formed differently. 

You guys are talking about having 10 stops for grading down to a 6 or 7 stop rec709 delivery. And, yes,...that is perfectly OK.
But rec709 is now pretty old and wont last forever. In 5 years most TVs will easily display 10 stops or even much more. BT2020 and HDR will be very common and you will need to deliver in a bigger color space.
More dynamic range will be very "common" in the very near future. Even YouTube and Vimeo have HDR 10bit codecs going into homes now. Its at an early stage but its already happening on properly flagged HDR uploads.

You guys are talking about having 10 stops for grading down to a 6 or 7 stop rec709 delivery. And, yes,...that is perfectly OK.
But rec709 is now pretty old and wont last forever. In 5 years most TVs will easily display 10 stops or even much more. BT2020 and HDR will be very common and you will need to deliver in a bigger color space.
More dynamic range will be very "common" in the very near future. Even YouTube and Vimeo have HDR 10bit codecs going into homes now. Its at an early stage but its already happening on properly flagged HDR uploads.

But what can Nikon "really" do? They are a total contractual SLAVE to Sony. Sony does NOT sell its image sensors to anybody "blindly". You just cant call up Sony and say "how much for your IMX269's??...I want 50,000 of them".
Before Sony will sell its sensors to another camera company, that company must state ALL of the planned specs that their future camera will have. Sony forces and negotiates those specs BEFORE any sensor is sold to that company. These specs are placed into the contract of sale so the competitor CAN'T change them at ANY time without Sony's permission.
So....when Nikon or another company buys Sony sensors, they are legally locked in to the cripples that Sony has FORCED on them. The only way arround it is for Nikon to buy from Samsung/Toshiba/Aptina/Cmosis or another fab plant. This of course will be a lower class chip and will hurt Nikon's brand....and Sony knows this very well.
Sony's reputation is that they are a real pain in the butt to buy from. Sony is VERY strict on its contracts of sale. The cripples added into the contracts are very detailed. If you want to open your features up, you must pay Sony more and more for each sensor. 
This is why Nikon is a slave to Sony where Canon is not for FF sensors.

I was told at NAB last year that Sony is VERY carefully about who they sell their image sensors to and what cameras they are installed in.
He told me that Sony writes contractual limitations into the sale agreement. Sony demands these sensors will only be installed into a competitor's camera with specific X,Y and Z limitations. If the buyer doesn't agree, they don't get the Sony sensor. They can negotiate with Sony but will pay a higher price for it. Supposedly Sony is VERY agressive on these legal contracts. Sony doesnt want is own technology fighting toouch against their own cameras and camcorders.
I dont know if Nikon is buying Sony chips on this new model but if they are, this crippling stuff might not be their fault. They literally could have their hands tied on what they can give their customers and what they cant.
This could be another reason why there are Nikon/Samsung rumors going arround now. I'm certain Nikon wants to get away from Sony at all cost.
Nikon does not own a sensor plant so they MUST buy from a third party supplier. Anybody know if Nikon is buying Sony on this?

As a huge Sony fan and someone that is about to buy the FS5 soon, I must say THANK YOU for getting this issue out into the spotlight. In order to get this fixed, it will take some degree of customer pressure to get Sony take this problem seriously and develop a fix. This sites and others are doing a great job at explaining the problem and making users aware of what is really happening to their footage.
As a shooter, there is nothing worse than thinking you are recording OK in the field only to come home and getting shocked at what you see afterwords.
Good job and thanks again!