tupp

Well, you didn't click on the link that I posted, which would take you exactly to the iso tests. So that tells me you're lazy, and I did all that work for nothing. Pay me!

Since I have EF lenses, I am delighted it has an EF mount.  All these other mounts is why I struggle to upgrade to fullframe.  It means choosing between RF, L or E or any others.  I prefer to avoid adaptors if I can.  Having so much invested in MFT only for Panasonic to cut their MFT almost dead in favour of FF makes me reluctant to invest totally too much in 1 system.  Didn't Canon have a M series of lenses too. 
At least with EF lenses, there is plenty of them and at good 2nd hand prices too.  Even the C70 has an adaptor to use them.  The future should be cameras with interchangeable mounts, so you're not limited to just one system.  

It's a manufacturing supply thing. The majority of their cameras already use the EF mount. Their molds are designed for this. They sell their cameras for a lot less than their competitors, for similar, or better features, they aren't going to change now and lose the little money they make on each camera.
Not to mention, they've decided to market their cameras to a larger demographic than just cinema and the majority of those other people use EF lenses, or lenses that easily adapt to the EF mount.

God forbid unsubstantiated opinions!
GU, CVP have done some rigorous testing—up to 12800 is clean and usable. Above that, the Fx6 is the way to go with the higher iso kicking in at 12800, with NR controls to avoid the heavy artifacts in the a7s3.
As far as dynamic range, GU, deep in Sony's pocket at this point, nonetheless acknowledges that the c70 has better dynamic range than either a7s or fx6, which is quite remarkable because the c70 has a super35 sensor. CineD also corroborated this w/ the c300iii, using the same sensor and codec as the c70. 
That somewhat makes it even more exciting, because the focal reducer transforms the c70 into another camera really.
 

@tupp
By software failure, I mean that if you have an existing protocol, like L, and translate to another protocol, such as EF, there is the very real chance that not every lens and camera will work. For example, Viltrox's EF to M43 adapter can control aperture, but not autofocus. Some lenses don't work at all. Adapters between different manufacturers will always have that risk. RF to EF is much safer, since the same company could make firmware updates on both ends to fix bugs that they missed in testing.
I think that RF would be the only good option. E, L, and M43 would have a very high chance of failure in some combinations of adapters and lenses. I also suspect Canon isn't licensing RF to Blackmagic.
As for mechanical failure, adding support screws would solve it, but would also require 1st party adapters since there is no standard for it. Z Cam did it, to their credit. I just don't know if it would really sell enough extra units to offset the cost. How many people do you really think would have bought on in L mount, but not EF? If Sony allowed it, E might have added some sales since there are numerous E mount lenses, but if you're targeting users who use EF lenses... I don't think the EF mount is a big hindrance.

There is absolutely no hassle in what I am proposing.  The clueless EF users would never realize that they are using an adapter.
 
 
Well, firstly, shallow interchangeable mounts have a proven track record on several cameras.  For instance, Red cameras have interchangeable lens mounts, and most who get one with an EF mount probably never remove the mount (and likely aren't even aware of that possibility).  Likewise with the FZ mount, the Kinefinity mount, the AJA Cion mount and with countless machine vision cameras that have bolt-on mounts.  Heck, Wooden Camera made modified BMPC's with an interchangeable, bolt-on mount.
 
Have you heard any complaints about mechanical failure of any such configurations?
 
Secondly, if a camera is designed with an existing shallow mount (EF-M, Z, M4/3, L, E, RF, etc.), the EF adapter can incorporate a flange so that it additionally bolts onto the body at four points, with the design following the lines of the camera body --  looking just like the front of the original Ursa, for instance.  Such an arrangement will never budge unless one uses a wrench.  If the camera comes configured that way out of the factory, EF users will never know that the camera actually has a shallow mount hidden inside.
 
Thirdly, in regards to "software" failure (I assume that you mean "lens signal failure"), the above established cameras with interchangeable electronic mounts have successfully eliminated any such problem, and there absolutely is no reason why it cannot be the same when utilizing an established shallow lens mount.  If contact reliability is a huge concern, a manufacturer could always use a separate ribbon connector for the default EF mount, bypassing the contacts of the shallow lens mount.
 
However, these are dumb simple design/mechanical solutions to a problem that is essentially imaginary.  Is it correct to sacrifice whole worlds of lens choices for a cinematography camera, merely to avoid the possibility of a few momentarily confused EF users?
 
Additionally, more and more popular cameras are appearing with FF shallow mounts.  Are the clueless (yet successful) EF users going to ignore the C70 and other Canon R-mount offerings because it's too confusing to use their L glass with an official Canon EF-to-R adapter?:

There's a large swath of people who just want things to work with absolutely no hassle. I have friends who are very good at making movies--better than me, in fact--and are making a living from their art, but would be unable to go on ebay and buy a vintage lens because they can't wrap their head around adapters, and would end up ordering something incompatible.
And personally, if I'm adapting to EF anyway... I don't mind an EF mount. I see no reason to add another point of mechanical and software failure. The chances of me ever needing a different mount are vanishingly small. Given the option, I'd probably go with a shallower flange for the exclusive reason of boosting to FF, if I ever wanted to. I'm just saying it's not a deal breaker since I'm 99.9% going to using EF anyway.
Yeah true, absolute beginner classes will be handing out fixed lens camcorders, not Blackmagics. But an intro to cinematography class, or anything beyond the "Intro to Film & Video" lecture definitely could. I worked on 4(?) undergrad/grad thesis films in the past 5 years that used blackmagic cameras, and every one of them would have had an easier time with the P6K compared to the 2.5k's and Ursa minis that we did use.
I'm not sure it's useful either to first learn about front filters, batteries, rigs, and rigamarole. It's not necessary to learning the art of filmmaking, and it's certainly something that can be taught if there is an interest. It's like asking screenwriting students to start out with typewriters.

In my opinion, this looks like an absolutely wonderful camera for people who want good images without complex rigs. Most of us here are very tech minded and love adapters, and external rig parts, but I don't think this style camera is aimed at us. No adapters, no front-of-lens ND filters, no rigged batteries (if you use the grip), no external monitor or recorder. I'm sure many schools will be buying these. Simple enough for intro classes, don't need to teach students how to rig it up just to use it, but still makes great images.
IBIS would make it more handheld-friendly in some cases, sure, but would also increase cost. I suspect IBIS requires more engineering, R&D, and QC than any feature Blackmagic has. Add IBIS and the price goes up. For any planned shoot, a gimbal does a better job anyway. Even a wide set of handles with good balance makes up for it.

It's killed the C70, only reasons to get a C70 now are:
1) autofocus
2) desire for a shall mirrorless mount (damn you BMD, give us a MFT Mount! Or even E Mount)
3) belief in the magical "Canon color science"
4) irrational hatred of BMD (we know many of those people exist!)

(as for DR, am always ultra skeptical about manufacturer claims, have we seen a head to head shoot out in a controlled manner between a C70 and P6K? As for battery life, once you slap a V Mount on it, this hardly matters)
Do I detect sarcasm? It would be sarcasm if I wrote it! ha
  
Yes, but the C200 is known for having a bad old sensor in it. 
No surprises there that it out performs the C200.

The a7s3 gets its dynamic range number w/ noise reduction - artificially boosting the S/R of 2, which CineD (and Gerald later adopted). The c70 is 13+ stops at that S/R if I recall correctly, better than the a7s3--or the fx6 (below 13), which makes sense because of the c70's dual gain sensor. Only the Alexa is better.

Not sure how that makes sense nor how that would even work, as it appears that they would have to retool the camera body to do so.
 
Furthermore, there is no technical reason to have a permanent EF mount to incorporate "internal" filters.  The camera could have an established shallow mount or a shallow interchangeable lens mount flange.  One could then use one of the existing third-party EF adapters with internal NDs and/or use a more integrally designed adapter offered by Blackmagic.  None of these options could make the camera any uglier.

I’m wondering if the new design is part of a future FF EF mount model with internal ND?

That's a very good idea. I'll have to talk to the client about whether this works for the project, but it would solve the problem and help bring context to some of the pieces we're going to use.

I personally kinda feel its getting a bit trollish to drag comments/ jokes from one thread to another unrelated thread. I'm sure no real intent was meant. But like workplace accidents,  jokes can go horribly wrong pretty quick as well.
Its usually me thats ringing for the ambo's. I'm all for safety, but the issue can be getting other people to think in the first place.
getting back on topic i have a couple of photos with the gimbal and 15mm olympus body cap lens, cant quite get the olympus and the 15mm lens far enough forward to balance properly, however i can get it to balance with the takumar 24mm and a light adapter. I'd take some footage but its horribly windy here today.  

i read this and thought bloody hell, he's taken up abseiling or not paying for his accommodation  😉
remember try not to feed the trolls 😛
btw i liked your sunset

I am dull enough to get my fun through utility though so it works on both levels for me.
I've decided that the German word for people who get their fun through the misfortune of others who have over tightened their glass balcony clamps and caused the destruction of said glass balcony should be "Shardenfreude".

Thanks for the link, but the article demonstrates everything that one shouldn't do when rigging on a balcony.
 
Nothing is safety'd, so that fact alone makes the rigs hazardous.
 
Also, the reviewed clamp happens to be a strong cam-action clamp -- they can generate enormous clamping power that can crunch through soft/brittle materials and tubing.  Only use Super/Mafer style clamps on solid metal, pipes with a minimum schedule 40 wall thickness or solid wood (be aware that these clamps can leave jaw indentations in wood).
 
Also, the article shows this:

There is so much wrong with what is happening in this photo that it is difficult to know where to begin.  There is no safety line. The rig's CG is off-axis which suspends most of it's weight precariously beyond the "rail's" edge, and which puts flex stress on a small, local area of the glass.
 
However, the big doosie is that a cam-action clamp that generates huge clamping pressure is tightened onto a sheet of tempered glass.  NEVER DO THAT!
 
Glass (and particularly tempered glass) isn't very stable/reliable when subjected to stresses, especially if more than one stress is applied to it simultaneously and/or if one of the stresses is focused on a small local area.  If the above clamp is reefed down to set up powerful, unseen stress on the glass and if there is any imperfection in the glass, the pane(s) could shatter if someone merely hits the pane with their wedding ring.
 
Here's what a little tap can do to unstressed tempered glass.
 
Here's what mere flex stress can do to tempered glass.
 
Here's a short primer on what can cause glass to inexplicably shatter (which happens occasionally).
 
Never rig to glass at a location, especially if it is on a balcony!
 
 
No.  It's not the size of the clamp.  In fact, if I was forced to mount a camera on a balcony rail of unknown width, I would likely bring a large (relatively light weight) Space Clamp and plan on at least one tag line, with a bailing wire run between the different rig items.
 
The main point is to avoid altogether rigging to a balcony rail.  Again, If one doesn't know enough about rigging to even know the names of the grip items, it is probably a really good idea for one not to attempt any rig on a balcony that could pose a hazard and/or possibly cause property damage.
 
Rigging items small or large to a glass balustrade on a balcony hugely complicates the risk.  You could have the lightest action cam mounted with a Super Clamp, and that Super Clamp could still crunch right through that tempered glass, or the clamp set up stresses that cause the glass to shatter at an imperfection when someone lightly bumps the pane with a chair.
 
Mount your camera on balcony rail at your own peril, or, more accurately, at the peril of those who venture below your rig.

That's a funny joke, but it's good that the point has sunk in.

Until recently I'd have said my most useful piece of equipment was my untethered glass balcony clamp.
 

A Super/Mafer clamp is like a mini hydraulic press.  As I mentioned above, it can crunch through many items/materials that other clamps cannot.  Due the heightened leverage involved, clueless folks tightening that type of cam-action clamp have damaged and ruined location pieces and caused material failure resulting in accidents.
 
If one has no experience with such clamps, one should avoid them.
 
Clamps should almost always be tightened to be firm -- not just "sufficient to make sure they won't fall."
 
 
That might seem like a good idea, but the torsion stress makes such an offset rig precarious and sets it up for failure, which is undesirable and unsafe -- even if the CG is inside the balcony.
 
In addition, with such positioning, the grip items might creep into the bottom of the frame.
 
 
Do not use fishing line.  Use something with a high enough test strength that holds knots well.  If you can tie a bowline and a clove hitch, you are good.  Extra points if you can tie a trucker's hitch, which is very useful for tag lines.
 
In regards to pick points, the more solid they are, the better.   A chair is probably not good for the balcony scenario, unless it is very heavy... likewise with a water bottle.  I would first look for pick points that are part of the building structure.  They need to be significantly inside from the edge of the balcony, and the higher up, the better.  Sometimes two pick points are necessary if there is not one far enough inside.
 
On a balcony the primary safety should be a tag/guy line that prevents a rig from going over the rail -- not a safety cable that "catches" the rig if it falls (as you suggested).  Of course, using a safety cable in addition to a tag line is good practice.
 
 
Actually, the clueless and uninitiated need to "be careful," especially when they contemplate rigging anything at altitude (which they should generally avoid).
 
It is misguided and dangerous to think that rigging a camera on a balcony rail is a "physics problem" or that doing so somehow involves "math."  If one has to calculate the stress tolerances of location items, such an endeavor should be abandoned.  As Murphy's Law suggests, failure is often more probable than one anticipates -- especially for a cocksure newbie.  Additionally, the odds of failure are compounded by all of the unknown variables one encounters at a location.
 
What one really needs when rigging at altitude on location is a strong sense of safety, along with a good deal of experience in anticipating and preventing/avoiding the various failures possible.  Such qualities are often found in grips and set electricians who have been around the block a few times.
 
If one doesn't have the proper sense of safety nor rigging experience, it is best to avoid rigging a camera to a balcony rail.
 
However, speaking of physics, I would like to reiterate that the physical properties of tempered glass are complex and that clamping to glass should never be attempted.
 
Here is a lecture on breaking glass cued to the start of the section on tempered glass. Note that the lecturer states that if one tries to modify tempered glass in the slightest, "fun things will happen!"
 
Tempered glass is primed to explode into little pieces.  As shown in my above links above, strong flex stress or a tiny tap in the right spot can shatter tempered glass.   Here is another video showing that tempered glass can take strong, broad impacts, but a local tap can cause it to shatter.  In addition, the risk of shattering is exacerbated by any tiny damage or imperfection in the glass or by any stress added by a rig/clamp.
 
Here is a closeup of the stress on a block of glass generated by a C-clamp, in a photo taken with a polarimeter setup:

As more force is applied, the stresses increase.
 
Here is a similar image showing stress lines on a clear block of plastic that deforms more easily than glass:

 
These stresses are not visible when one tightens a Super/Mafer clamp onto a glass balustrade.
 
So, although a drunk person falling on a glass balustrade might not be a problem, a tiny impact and/or clamping force on a local spot of the glass might cause that balustrade to shatter.  That could ruin one's day.
 
I have the benefit of years of experience as a member of an IA studio mechanics local working a set electrician and as a grip.  If a new guy joined the crew and announced that they had postgraduate level physics and math, they would start out huffing cable, sandbags and carts just like every other newbie.  The sense of safety, rigging techniques and set protocols has to be developed.
 
In the meantime, don't put towels or t-shirts inside overhead clamps, always use a substantial tag line (with solid pick points) on a balcony rig, and avoid attaching anything to location structures...  oh, and never clamp to glass!

I hope the waitress had a ground guy with a tag line as she placed the tray on that glass...

I feel bad for the ants on the ground with the amount of localized pressure on that glass.
 

@tupp I give up.
You obviously think that working for years and learning the names of all the clamps is required for anyone to exercise any judgement or awareness of safety and that I'm an idiot because I think I might know things when I can't because I've never worked as a grip or learned the names of the clamps.
I wonder how much you could possibly know (beyond knowing the names of the clamps) if you fail to understand that the universe is literally maths and physics, and I'm also wondering why you haven't come up with literally thousands of photos of those little camera clamps sitting in the middle of piles of shattered glass - there are no shortage of images of people using them that way.
I could debate this forever, but your method of assessing judgement or practical ability seems to be one-dimensional and I don't fit that narrow definition, and am never going to because I don't aspire to the same career path as yours, so how about this:
you have fulfilled your legal and ethical duty to tell me (and anyone else reading this thread henceforth) to never even look at tempered glass until I am the god of all grips (and can name all the clamps), and I will go ahead and use the judgement I have and when it all inevitably comes crashing down just like you have predicted I will not hold you responsible.

If you can use Adobe (I know, I know) Audition, the tools are actually pretty good as the EZ noob defaults are actually pretty good and get the job done for most things.
noise reduction, normalize, multi-band compressor, and you're usually pretty good to go, as long as you have removed any weird artifacts.

thank you @tupp!!! will watch now

A few thoughts:
I try to always be respectful of items (regardless of if they're mine or not) and clamping force would be something I'd be very aware of, both for the possibility of breaking something and also leaving teeth-marks on things
(as an aside, when I was young I bought a second-hand car that had the options pack which included a leather steering-wheel, and I took it somewhere once and I think they had clamped a clipboard to the steering wheel because it had little chew-marks in the leather at top dead-centre of the wheel..  I saw it every time I drove the car and it made me so mad that they'd damage my car like that!) My inclination would be to apply as little clamping force as possible - sufficient to make sure it wouldn't fall, and I'd always try to use sufficient padding to ensure there wasn't a grain of sand or something concentrating the force (thus my comment earlier that you were very critical of) I would also try to put the centre of gravity on the inside of the railing so that should anything fall it would be towards safety instead of towards other people's heads, but I can understand the concept of centering it to eliminate torsion In terms of a safety line, any tips on something that's easy and practical?  fishing line tied to a chair perhaps, or a bottle filled with water? or something else? be careful being critical about people knowing or not knowing the terminology of something - I may not know the terminology of clamps, but I have postgraduate level physics and math, and it seems to me that this is a physics problem, not a "I can name all the clamps" problem