Danyyyel

Looks pretty amazing. Where could they go from here?
 
Hopefully they also make some TC receivers that add onto the system to sync multiple cameras.

(0% of usser including me are expecting and complaining about 10 bit h264 internal not RAW. I don't understand that obsession about size unless you want to do spy shots. I mean I can shoot RAW video with cameras that is smaller than my last dslr Nikon D750 and a flash on it. In fact I prefer and camera with an external recorder than one with all internal WOW spec that will overhead. In a any narrative, high end commercial and documentary filming where I think RAW can be warranted, those size a ridiculously small. I mean the z6 + ninja V might be barely bigger than a Canon 5d mark ii.  So what has happened those last decade, everyone has become so much older that they can't hold less than a kilogram. 

Exactly, sometimes people don't understand those simple logic. Companies have to do some profits. I am very critical Nikon did not put 10 bit internal in these cameras, I guess they thought as they give you the choice external, and that the 8bit internal is extremely good, people would not bother. But now I see people complaining why it is not internal or $ 200 dollar upgrade. I mean in two years we went from 8bit to 12 bit raw in 2000 usd FF hybrid camera. Largely because of Nikon. It's been like 5 years people have been complaining that we were stuck with 8bit (which is right) and only now that you got the likes of Sony and Canon giving 10 bit etc. and people are still complaining.
 
 

Sincerely, how can people complain that much I don't understand. I am hyper critical of not putting 10bit but for RAW update how can people complain. The original z6 came out 2 years ago for 2300 USD, the z7 for 3300. Now the new one is 2000 and the z7 2700 usd. It means that for example the z6ii is cheaper, while having 60p 4k and better AF, dual card slot etc than the original one including the firmware update. You are comparing it to the Panasonic S1H  which is 4000 usd. That is twice the price and I don't even know if it has 60 fps RAW.

Good luck to them, when their camera overheats their photographers Videographers will be super happy. 

Kinda smells this way. Just like YouTubers getting thousands of dollars of free gear and say they aren't getting paid! They then openly resell it on eBay. Total bullshit.

They want to say Sony didn't pay us to choose Sony. 

I think Canon color science is lovely, right behind ARRI. However they've never really made serious cinema cameras. ARRI is certainly the best with RED, kinda. Most people doing high end work look down on RED. Honestly the Sony Venice seems to have a much better rapport than any RED camera with high end stuff. I've heard a ton of good things about the Venice while RED is constantly hated on.

 I was kind of warming up to the R5C. One big benefit of the camera is the fast readout for low rolling shutter effect in 4k. Dynamic range isn't as good as the C70 though and the micro HDMI makes it a no go for me. How can you sell a $4,500 camera with micro HDMI.

 I still have yet to see a camera that can really do anything against my Arri Alexa, besides resolution. I just don't give a damn about resolution. The Netflix 4k thing is pretty dumb IMO. Almost all big hollywood stuff is shot in 4k anyways and Netflix productions are big money. Renting an Alexa LF or other 4k cine camera is pennies and dimes compared to the cost of the entire production.

(0% of usser including me are expecting and complaining about 10 bit h264 internal not RAW. I don't understand that obsession about size unless you want to do spy shots. I mean I can shoot RAW video with cameras that is smaller than my last dslr Nikon D750 and a flash on it. In fact I prefer and camera with an external recorder than one with all internal WOW spec that will overhead. In a any narrative, high end commercial and documentary filming where I think RAW can be warranted, those size a ridiculously small. I mean the z6 + ninja V might be barely bigger than a Canon 5d mark ii.  So what has happened those last decade, everyone has become so much older that they can't hold less than a kilogram. 

Any one ever saw a iPhone teardown?

It is a battery, a tiny mainboard, two or 3 camera modules, screen module and some connectors. The BOM cost for this in the iPhone 12 Pro is US$406 (https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_12_pro_bom_come_up_to_406-news-46442.php), probably much less, since Apple could get massive discounts buying it in bunch. Let's say it goes to US$300.

Almost no mechanical adjustments needed, the assembly might be very cheap. Easily the profit is around 300% per unit.

Now get a Nikon camera, see the immense complexity of it, the much higher price of a much bigger sensor (made in fractions of quantity of smaller smartphone chips), the amount of mechanical adjustments needed, which translates in much costly labor.

Probably the profit is MUCH lower, with more complexity, and in 2019 Nikon sold around 1.73 million units between DSLR and mirrorless. Apple sold around 37,7 million units of the iPhone 11 in the FIRST HALF of 2020.

My bets is that they don't give a damn to the traditional camera market.

WOW at lease one poster who has some insight. Panasonic and Fuji are at 4-5% of the market, 4 to 5x lower than Nikon and Nikon is neck in neck with Sony. Guess what its Nikon that is going to die. Then they tell you, but Canon Sony Panasonic form part of bigger companies.............. While Nikon forms part of the Mitsubishi Kieretsu, the biggest, bigger than Sony, Panasonic, Canon etc group in Japan, with one of its investors being the biggest bank in Japan. Nikon has been positive until last year and was sitting on more than 2 billions in cash in 2017 at least. They even have been bullish about their 2021-2022 numbers predicting profits for their imaging division as this big loss is a one time write off so as to make the cmpany leaner as they want to adapt to an ever declining market. They also have invested a lot into new field like lidar technology.
The fumy thing is people using market share as a metric of progress. Tell that to Sony who where selling 5x more cameras in 2010 with 5-8% market share than today with about 20%. How much time do people think Sony corp will be happy as a non historic camera manufacturer to continue to invest and surely incur loss in a camera business. Is Nikon in great shape, definitely not, but they are in much better shape than other manufacturers like Panasonic, fuji and even Sony. One has only 5% at best, the other one is now stagnating at about 20% since Nikon and Canon have launched their Mirrorless lineup. Even more, because it is in an ever smaller market.
Olympus the perfect example of the non sense about Nikon death. While for the last 3-5 years we are hearing how Nikon will die soon, Olympus who no one predicted, just went out. Nikon has always been positive until last year. Their profitability or even loss started in the imaging division started last year but with massive investment in R&D. What people here don't know as they concentrate on only camera bodies. Nikon has released 18 outstanding lens during the last 2 years. They have another 6 until next year, that will be 24 lens in 3 years. This is an investment on the next decade to 15 years, those lens are so good with the advantage of the bigger new mount. They also have build 6 bodies during that time and are heavily predicted that at least 1 if not 2 pro bodies next year. Meanwhile what has the likes of Sony produce. My simple guess, is that we will see Panasonic, then Sony and then the likes of Fuji, and I would put Nikon just before Canon to quit the camera industry. The likes of Canon, Nikon and to a certain extent Fuji are historic camera manufacturers. Sony was just opportunistic on a booming market, now that it is going down and down, they will soon quite, by selling it to stop the loss.

Going early into mirrorless gave Sony an advantage initially, but it also means they made the mistake of APS-C as the basis for their mount. Which they're trying to shoehorn a FF sensor into, which results in limitations in terms of the lenses they can design and what they can do with their sensors. 

With time, this will become more and more apparent to even the average consumer.  Nikon has better camera body IBIS and "better" (in the sense of one of: size/price/performance/value/speed/etc) lenses than Sony.

Canon meanwhile has made the deathly mistake of splitting up their mirrorless across EOS M & RF Mounts, they can not possibly support both forever! Nikon has already long ago killed their Nikon 1 experiment, that mistake is gone in the past now. 

Out of the "big three" I see Nikon the best set up for the long term future, they just need to keep on doing what they're doing. Release another couple of DX Z Mount bodies to get the mainstream average buyers and attract new blood to the system, plus Pro FX Z Mount body and keep up that stream of new Z Mount lens releases. 
(and purely in my dreams.... release a FX6/C70 competitor with a Z Mount!!)

Nikon is not a video company. Their forte is and will always be photo gear.
They make very good products in that respect.  A bit more expensive than the usual players, no doubt. But the quality is there.
Let's be honest here guys: Nikon = Japanese ethos. Failing for them means being bought by another Japanese company.
Since they are a part of the umbrella of the massive Mitsubishi group, I HIGHLY doubt we'll ever see a dramatic shift.
At least not as dramatic as Pentax, which by the way still make a very good photo cameras.

Every camera has pros and cons.
BRaw external for Nikon Z6, Z6 II is great. Problem for me is not the external recorder. BMPCC 4K, 6K have BRaw internal but can you use them without external monitor ? Not really. Nikon Z6, Z6 II with Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5'' will be a smaller and lighter setup, not to mention that you get also a great photo camera, Full Frame out of the box, in body image stabilization, very good and compact EVF and much better auto focus in video.  Can put the recorder in a bag on  my side and have a HDMI cable  hanging from the camera. No such big deal if want to be as much unnoticeable as possible.
Problem is that Z6 with Ninja V line skips in ProRes RAW. And will most likely do the same with Blackmagic video assist. According to initial reviews Z6 II line skips as well. Another problem was that when recording externally you loose EVF on Z6. If Nikon solved those problems in Z6 II and with Blackmagic recorders, I am in.
Agree that 10bit 4:2:2 is perfectly OK for most. But it has it price too. Usually it is x264 encoded, which is more difficult to edit in Resolve, while BRaw cuts like butter. So am willing to use a recorder anyway. It saves me time in post and it is nice to have 5 inch monitor. Prefer this setup most of the time.

Rightly or wrongly, having Braw as external only means Blackmagic still get a cut of the sales because you need the Video Assist. If it was internal, they wouldn't get as much. The 3rd party would probably pay for the rights to the codec, but I'd imagine there's a bigger margin with the VA hardware sales.
It also means people are less likely to go that route. If you don't want the put a monitor on your camera, or want Braw internal, you need to buy a BMD camera, so either way they're getting extra sales.

I understand your point fully, but I think this a bit less true since BMRAW. When you look at the bitrate of Braw and from feedback of some friends who work with it and Davinci Resolve, it works very very well. At 12.1 which I saw some test footage is just slightly less sharp than other less compressed version, we are clearly less heavy than normal PRORES. We are closer to H264 compression rate!!!

I was stunned to see this from this article that the two Zii models are to shoot 4k BMRaw at 60 fps with a future firmware upgrade in February for the z6ii and perhaps at launch for the z7ii in december. One thing to remember is that the z6ii shoots with a 1.5 crop (DX) but the Z7 shoots with only 1.1x crop.
https://*banned URL*/nikon-z7-ii-and-z6-ii-raw-support

Do you know how many movies and dramas are shot in Korea every year? You mentioned two korean directors every redditor wanks off to. I just spoke to a Korean Producer who has a studio film in the korean theaters right now a couple of weeks ago about shooting long scenes with af lenses to keep track of the actors. I personally know dp's who have used sony and canon cameras the past year on all types of shoots using af. Why are there so many people on this site who think they know everything about what everyone is doing? And why are you interrogating me? But I'll play along.
No, I don't mean Bong joon ho or Park chan-wook.
They are using c300 mkii and fx9's and canon and sony lenses.
It's not for the whole production. Specific shots where they know they can save time and get the shot done. So yes most of the shoots are of course done with an ac/puller.
I personally know and have worked with these people. I have worked in the Korean film industry for over 12 years now and worked in film and tv in NYC since the early 90s. I am very aware of how productions work. I have done everything from tape dubbing to dping indie films to directing short films and theatrically released feature films.
And no I won't share people's names with you. Just deal with the fact the world is bigger than what your perspective might be.
Here's a rental house a few blocks away from me. A lot of productions in Seoul rent from houses like this. Go to the cine camera section and then the lens section and then draw your own conclusions.
https://www.slrrent.com/kr/

The 1080p 120 is so good I'd be happy with that if they gave me it in 10-bit log.

someone in the nikonrumors comments said the sensor can only do 40hz in full frame.  Not sure if this is true but if so, rules out 4k 60 FF.  I agree, they shouldn't give it the ii moniker if its a minor update. Urgh! 

My only hope is that the big studios put pressure on BM to implement Prores RAW as Resolve is the number one grading tool.

I don't feel sorry for my 2 z6 purchase at all, when I bought the first one it didn't have things like eye AF, much better autofocus and even raw video. Sincerely the Z have always been full featured while the Canon where really underwhelming. It's not because Sony and Canon just released there first 10 bit camera than Nikon did not offer that 2 years ago.

Personally I hope they stick to h264, h265 is a nightmare to edit. They should add higher bit-rate also, same as we have different jpeg setting. High bitrate 10 bit h264 would be a dream for 90+of jobs. When I see what you can already do with their 140 mbit codec, it would be both practical and lighter weight.  

Personally I hope they stick to h264, h265 is a nightmare to edit. They should add higher bit-rate also, same as we have different jpeg setting. High bitrate 10 bit h264 would be a dream for 90+of jobs. When I see what you can already do with their 140 mbit codec, it would be both practical and lighter weight.  

I agree and unless you absolutely need in camera 4K 60p or twin card slots, these cameras are still as good as the day they were launched.
It’s not like anyone had a gun to their head to buy them or anything else.
They will make superb used options for a lot of people also.
I do think the Z line has been the most underestimated and over-criticised system of these last 2 years.