Sage

37 minutes ago, dia3olik said:

@Sage Why 8bit? Isn't the output 10bit? would this still apply?

To get 4k 60p 10bit out of the HDMI you have to disable internal recording...that's why I'm so invested in this he he

BTW I always set the WB when it changes with my white card so no worries here, I lean towards OCD a little so this helps too ?

 

The 8 bit example is just to demonstrate the density of 65x - it changes from every eighth value along a dimension to every fourth (eight times as dense)

As long as you're careful to WB and expose (and you'll have a live preview - a WYSIWYG approach), you'll be fine

@dia3olik I haven't tried the Ninja. Yes, it would work on the hdmi signal, and with 65x, it takes interpolation concerns off the table (for 8 bit, every fourth value would be dictated for a given dimension).

That said, be sure to record a backup internally, should you need to go back to the VLog. It is key to have an accurate WB and moderate exposure for the EC variations (moreso than interpolation)

@FreshGiant Very cool. You can bake them in - just make sure to get the WB/exp right. I would recommend recording a backup internally in case you need to go back to VLog.

Alex Delfont pointed out to me that 2K Long was quite good, so I did my most demanding 'moving gradient' test of the different formats. Indeed, in both banding and smooth editability, 2K Long rivaled 2K All-I in this test. It was the 4k Long that really underperformed, with significant banding in moving gradients, and was barely editable. All-I may still have the edge with motion fidelity and noise texture (which this test did not quantify), but the 2K long is rich with bitrate, and an excellent backup option (most unlike 4K long).

2 hours ago, TurboRat said:

Thanks. Will just use V2 while shooting just for preview then use V3 when applying the LUT in Premiere or Resolve

V2 .vlts have the same limitation (try them in the same banding situation). An external monitor like the Ninja allows 33x previewing, which will be full fidelity in realtime

@TurboRat Yes, the 17x .vlt format, interpolated by the GH5 internally, is not good enough for GHa (note is in the ReadMe next to the .vlts)

The actual 65x V3 is mathematically smoothed to have 'perfect 3D curves', so to speak (impossible to have artifacts from the conversion). In terms of smoothness, its on a whole new playing field from V2.

The GH5 footage can show the slightest banding in moving gradients (lens flares etc) with All-I (the best the GH5 can do internally), though that will be common to any color correction. The P4K will be different though

7 hours ago, FinnChristianPeper said:

Great work Sage! I have been using you're luts the last couple of weeks, and it just works perfectly. Im currently shooting on a gh5 with atomos ninja V 

Here are some stills. The video can be seen here 

Wow, that's solid. Quite possibly my favorite V3 footage yet

I've got the Hoya ProNDs 1,3, and 6. I recently switched to the Firecrest 1,3 and 6. Still have the Hoyas though. I use Xumes for quick swapping

@kye This is best accomplished by swapping the luma curve layer mixer structure with the conversion node. This way, black level and gamma may be set ahead of the conversion.

Going forward, opt for moderate exposure, so that the luma stage may follow the conversion. Moderate exposure will allow substantial highlight range, while steering clear of the noise floor

On 11/4/2018 at 12:35 PM, mirekti said:

I am using DNxHD. Does this mean I could either use ProRes PRE or simply keep the levels set to full throughout the video?
Or you'd recommend to use Auto at Clip Attributes in in Edit tab, apply ProRes PRE in Color tab. In Project Settings, under Video Monitoring -> Data levels Video, and eventually in Deliver tab again Video? The Auto option is only available in Deliver tab and in Edit tab under Clip attributes.

Yep, either way will do. You can keep those both at auto - or set clip attributes to Full (when not using the PRE)

9 minutes ago, katlis said:

That looks great @deathly_twig, I had a similar idea recently. It turns out you can "hack" the GX85 to enable Cine-D which was hidden in the firmware. I originally wanted one as a backup camera for photography, but the video on this thing ain't too bad, albeit 8-bit. So I picked up a used one for 300 bucks. The 16mp sensor may give it an edge in low light too?

This is at 800 ISO. 8-bit PRE + Cine-D to V-Log PRE + GHa Main + luma adjustments:

Oh damn, that's pretty good haha

Btw, you won't need the 8-bit PRE - the Cine-D (non Premiere) is all you need for 8 bit Cine-D in any NLE

I just did a test grade for someone's G9 - all the shots needed a bit of a different downward gamma curve to conform to cinema luminance, but it seemed to work pretty well:

On 11/6/2018 at 8:09 PM, deathly_twig said:

So I just got my Mavic 2 Pro today, and decided to try the GHA conversion on it, in 10 bit mode of course, to see what would happen. I used the Cine-D pre, and then Linear. I still have to dial in my Mavic settings a bit more, but the lut seemed to work! Obviously not perfectly, but not bad. Now to get some better footage and more practice with this drone!

That looks great!

Side note, for my old Mavic Pro (not 2) I found that +1 sharp in cam, and an Opacity of 85% on the 6.0 blur olpf seems to work well to give a smooth detailed image without the mush

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

@Sage How does Data Level impact the conversion, should it be left at video or full throughout the Davinci path (Media tab -> clip attributes, Project Settings -> Video monitoring, Deliver -> Advanced settings )? 

You'll want them at Auto, and Video for the Project settings. The exception is for VLog wrapped in ProRes or DNxHD - these clips should be set to full (if the ProRes PRE is not used), because the correct Full flagging is hidden in a Video level codec

2 hours ago, Lambo said:

What is the issue with Prores and Premiere?

Premiere distorts the color space of ProRes - most noticeably saturated red. It also hides the correct levels flagging of VLog (this is correctable with the PRE).

I will do a PRE to fix Premiere ProRes exactly, eventually

5 hours ago, deathly_twig said:

Some shots taken this evening. Not much grading other than V3 and some minor tweaks. These were wrapped in prores, as I used the Ninja V, so they aren't optimal. But I am really loving V3! So beautiful.

Those look fantastic. And as long as you're in anything but Premiere, ProRes is perfectly fine.

Can you send me a raw DPX of that last still?

16 hours ago, hypp said:

@Sage I just read the documentation and looked at the waveforms but there are some things that really confuses me due to my lack of knowledge. What's the difference between exposure (set by lift, gamma, gain) and luminance? I learned to set exposure by the color wheels (lift, gamma, and gain) and I can't seem to understand what to do with the luminance when you have a shot without a person. Do you only set the black and highlight value and disregard the skin tone value or do you replace it with something else? My reason for this confusion is because in my head I translate the black level (set by lift), skin tone or mid tones (set by gamma) and highlight (set by gain) which is most likely wrong.

 Could you give an example of how that could look like and how it's not supposed to look like? 

Exposure, as used in the Pdf, refers to the luminance shift which occurs in camera (f-stop, shutter). This is a fixed shift that affects the entire image, most similar to the Offset control in post. Luminance is used to refer to the brightness of things in post, which can be altered by any controls as you see fit.

With cinema standard luminance, the aim is the big picture. Exact IRE targets give boundaries and get things started. The principle underlying those targets is that certain scene types and lighting environments hit a consistent brightness throughout a film. Hence, a tree, ocean or sky will place in context with whether it is night, dusk or midday sun etc. The different environments shown in the waveforms will help give a sense for how to place a scene type in your film (Summarized as: Consistency within ranges)

No need to stress over placing each individual scene element though - they are all optically tied together, through the scene gamma. That's what I'm referring to in the note on the luma curve. It should be a smooth arc, as shown on the second DaVinci page (away from home for a couple days). Once black is set with that bottom point, its simply a matter of placing the middle and top points (with the Resolve curve, which moves ideally). A problematic curve would involve extra points, that create dips and rises in that gamma (wrangling the data, so to speak)

22 hours ago, Flyingsheep said:

Cool, and saturation at -5 as well?

Saturation at default* (wider gamut)

1 hour ago, FreshGiant said:

Sage, I bought the LUT and I have been blown away. I want to thank you so much. It really unlocks the GH5. I think it would be great if you can do more video tutorials as well on the best uses. 

Also, without having to do all the work of making a new GH5s lut, could you just do a lut that matches the GH5 to the GH5s V-LOG (GH5 looks a bit more green to me) the way you do a C-LOG conversion?

Thank you! I'd certainly like to do that, now that V3 is out

That's a way to do it, ironically its just as tricky (cam to cam, vs profile to profile)

@hypp Others could probably better speak to the resources out there. I highly recommend shooting films and diving in headfirst, its a great bootcamp (the method to my madness)

I'd especially like to emphasize luminance placement, which has perhaps the single biggest effect on image perception. Conform to cinema standard luminance, and things really start to click. Read through the second half of page 2 of the Pdf, and study these waveforms

GHa Documentation V3.pdf

Supplemental Waveforms (PDF).zip

21 hours ago, Flyingsheep said:

What are your recommended profile settings when shooting in HLG for the HLG to V-Log L transformation? Heavily considering picking up ghA soon, thanks

That one is easy to set - its a more locked off profile like VLog. I would just recommend Sharpness and NR to be set to -5 for optimal texture. Be sure to check out the PDF (which is attached, as its now only 1.5MB)

GHa Documentation V3.pdf

Another from Ryan, great shots throughout (v2 Soft):

ASHLAND

11 hours ago, mirekti said:

What would be a good source of LUTs for LogC in case I wanted to play around?

There are the official Arri issued photometric display luts, that are the minimum starting point for a grade to interpret LogC correctly (and used for dailies):

https://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/tools/lut_generator/lut_generator/

There is VCImpulz, which has good LogC support, Linny, and those behind closed doors at Technicolor etc.

10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Film school seems pretty overrated. Lots of good info and of course in the end you just have to put in the work. 

and then there is me who is color blind ?

Yes, I think so. Better to go and make a film (or three) right out of the gate, with whatever resources you've got.

My coworker is color blind, and I'm always talking to him about what I'm working on with Emotive Color hehe

13 minutes ago, hypp said:

@Sage What's your background? You obviously seem to know a lot about color and the science behind it. How did you learn all of this? 

I went to film school, and have since been making commercials for a fixed index annuity company that air on a lot of Tv channels

Where I really, really learned though - I am an obsessive, slightly autistic person, who is obsessed with making movies, and exactly replicating the aesthetic of those movies that astound me

Programming is entirely self taught. I began in grade school, making games on the calculator (Ti-83) for the other kids to play. I called the effort 'Sage Games', after an rpg game I drew on paper called... "Sage-Ru 26"

My goal is to make a movie that really speaks to me personally, and the idea of doing that thrills me. Its the one constant

33 minutes ago, Ryley K said:

Some screen grabs from a music video teaser I'm making. Shot with GH5, old ENG lens, and the Atomos NInja V in ProRes 422 with the Tungsten LogC LUT baked into the footage. It gave me a really good starting point to add different LUT's and start grading. Also added the 4:3 border and film grain.

I love the cinematic grime you've got going on there. I really want to do something like that (styled like 'Black Swan')

If I may, I'd actually like to recommend avoiding baking in, especially in mixed lighting scenarios. The reason for this is because dialing in the WB correction ahead of the conversion can be a bit of a fiddly thing in these situations, and there is a lot less stress to get the WB perfect in cam (even under halogen)

A side note - the lut on top is causing 'hyper-saturation' in the reds. The EC variations (Main/Soft/Linear) won't do this. Especially now with V3, they are generally the way to go, as they provide the color back-end that is the hallmark of post houses like Technicolor and FotoKem.

1 minute ago, TurboRat said:

What are you referring to about keeping under 75 and about the Sicario ceiling?

But I agree with the better contrast in the V3 lut looks much better :). I always add contrast when I use the previous version of the GHa lut. Glad to see it's already added

The new 'in Post: Cinematic Luminance' section on page 2 of the new PDF is critical, in addition to the new supplemental waveforms

Essentially, the top third of the waveform is where extreme highlights place when conforming to cinema standard luminance. The GH5 is missing the three stops on top, and EC Main/Soft really encourage correct placement of luma for the cinema when exposing for them (moderately), and have beautiful handling of harsh skin detail

20 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

@Sage i wanna tell you, if next year everything goes great, i'm gonna be shooting my next feature and i'm really considering using the Gh5 with your lut, a really portable and cheap Alexa!

Likewise - and when it comes time to shoot, it'll be the GH5 (and P4K @Téodor Spencer) for me. Your feature will be amazing, I have no doubt.

16 minutes ago, katlis said:

I agree, while I've been getting acclimated with grading GH5 footage and following your advice I've always kept it under 75. Loving the results. Now I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone and experiment with new looks, so adding this Linear option to V3 is a nice push.  Hoping to shoot my first real dramatic short next month. From the grade I'm imagining in my head, I'll probably stick with <75, but either way I'll be using GHa!

Ah, I can't wait to see it! Yea Linear adds that bit of flexibility, which I think was a needed option.

I'll be shooting trees in the sun today, just for fun lol (first chance to breathe)

5 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Yeah, i like the lower highlights but film, back in the day, when processed had a very bright punch and higher ceiling. Love that punch with film, which with this LogC conversion is more achievable. 

Different looks from different eras.

Indeed, that is that the higher ceiling really 'clicks' with film, I think due to the nature of the color sci, and the halation. Whereas the Sicario ceiling plays to the GH5's strengths, so to speak (btw, try linear )

35 minutes ago, katlis said:

@Sage Re-graded with V3! I decided to try out Linear (GHa3-L ?), and tweaked the luma to compliment. Otherwise, the rest of my same grade from the 1st video is on top of GHa. I like the added contrast in this version!

 

Thank you Katlis, there are some simply incredible shots in there. For dramatic works on projection I love the 'Sicario ceiling' of Main and Soft:

Now, 'Tree of Life' really is an incredible testament to 90s IRE sun highlights (though, they had film):

This is the new V3 Linear, in context of the others (V35 for a reference):

LogC

Soft

Main

Linear

V35

@Oliver Daniel Thanks Oliver. Looking at his previous posts, I think he might be referring to luts for LogC, and was confused about what you meant

I hope people will find it worth it, and consider my own personal investment to get it to where it is today. I believe in doing free updates and personal service because I want people to have the best, and to do right by the people who put their faith in me (no matter what or how long it takes)

2 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

 

@Sage, I will admittedly say that since using GHa, I’ve ditched every other LUT I’ve bought and stopped using those made by myself. 

The conversion turns the GH5 into almost a different camera, it’s just simply beautiful work. 

The EVA1 and GH5S is on the way to cement my Panasonic production trio. Worth trying the conversion on these too, and sharing the results? 

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

With the 'Definitive Update', it has finally arrived, so to speak, and its been an honor.

Feel free to do that - I'm always asked how it looks on EVA and the S, and they're a black box to me (though the S is fairly close)

The Intro video is still at V1 ? V3 is so much better than V1, and V2, that it decidedly needs an update (now that I can take a breather from the technical)

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah that is super good!

Right on!

@katlis Any chance for a V3 version?

@katlis That looks glorious. Wish I had gotten V3 out earlier - those bright saturated yellows are other bright colors would really sing with V3 (the saturation model with V3 is on a whole new level)