Sage

On 9/28/2018 at 1:12 PM, will_fowkes said:

hello all! I made the Ireland video, thanks for all of your lovely comments

@PannySVHS I'll try to remember as much as I can about the process I used for this video. 

In-camera: I set my WB for each shot using a grey card, and the whole video was shot in V-LOG 24fps 150mbit 4K. 

Post: I use Premiere Pro for all post-processing, and I'm pretty sure I did all of the colour correction and grading within Lumetri for this video. I used the GHa Premiere 10-bit VLog [PRE] LUT in the 'Input LUT' section of Lumetri. And then used the GHa Daylight (Soft) at 80 Strength in the 'Creative LUT' section. I would do those 2 steps first, before colour correcting (minor adjustments to WB, exposure, possibly adding contrast in the RGB curve, slightly increase saturation). I didn't have to do anything else to the video in terms of grading, I really liked the colours like that. As @Sage mentioned, I found sometimes that greens went too far towards blues, but this was fairly easy to correct with the Colour Wheels in Lumetri. After colour correcting, I duplicated the videos into a second layer and set this new layer to Opacity 0.18 and Gaussian Blur 5.2, as recommended in the LUT PDF as a way of removing some of the GH5's digital sharpness. I then added in some grain which has been smushed by Youtube as expected.

 

It's worth mentioning I only have a very limited experience of videography and colour grading, having done it as a hobby for about a year now. However, I'll gladly try to answer any other questions anyone has. Equally, I'm very open to any suggestions on my process anyone has after watching my video! I can't recommend @Sage's conversion LUT enough, it does magical things to the GH5.

Thanks man, just seeing this now

Indeed, cyanish Arri greens are a thing (its a "memory color", so people can vary on this one)

Fwiw, I recommend 100% strength, and correct as desired from there (important for full LogC conversion, including rolloff)

@mirekti Yea, that's me

Well, this definitely puts the pressure on! If I do not get this done by the end of the year, I will return your donation. Thank you for mounting this effort, I hope to rise to it.

I need a sunny day or two (and some time)

11 hours ago, hypp said:

I currently own the BMPCC and never considered the gh5 due the colors/look but this LUT changed my mind. How does the GH5 stack up against the BMPCC/BMMCC with this lut?

Its a measured LogC combined with a cinema color pipeline; I'm interested in bringing this to the P4K, and will have a very direct comparison of BMDFilm to EC eventually (the EC space for the P4K will be identical to the GH5)

For the raw EC color, check out Always Already, which has no color grade (Download 'Original' for faithful color reproduction)

On 9/26/2018 at 10:54 AM, ChristianH said:

Sage, this is bloody amazing. I've read the whole thread now and watched just about every video posted. I didn't really consider the GH5 (small sensor etc.), but with these settings, it blows everything in its price range away. Sony colors look mighty wonky compared to this. If I get a GH5 this is an insta-buy.

Thanks Christian, I appreciate that

On 9/26/2018 at 3:45 PM, mercer said:

That Ireland video is gorgeous. I prefer a little blue in my greens... I think that has a more Alexa look (of course I’m basing that from graded Alexa material) but whatever, that’s an easy fix with Hue/Saturation curves and the Ireland video still looks great!!!

Damn, every time I’ve convinced myself against the GH5, as a second camera, another GHa video gets posted and mucks up my plans.

Well spotted; I had a conversation a bit ago with the creator of the video, and he said that he didn't like something about the greens from the conversion, and tried to correct for that. Indeed, a signature quality of Alexa color is slightly cyanish greens, and I think this is probably what he felt must have been a mistake. This is what the greens look like from the current raw conversion:

On 9/26/2018 at 3:19 PM, mirekti said:

@Sage Will the new PDF contain instruction of "optimal" setup?
In other words, what camera settings are expected (sharpness level etc.)?
How do you prefer to expose? ETTR or 55 IRE for the skin tones (by the book)?
What is your post process, do you apply Noise Reduction and Sharpening or simply throw the LUT and play with curve a little bit?
Any other tip would be welcome as well.
Thanks!!! 

It will; trying to get this ready as fast as possible. The key for Main/Soft is moderate exposure (avoid over/under)

-5 on sharp/NR is the closest in cam to Arri texture (doesn't affect color though). I prefer no further processing in post (ideally well lit, focused etc)

The only necessary correction for a moderately exposed GHa shot is to set the black level

Also, the OLPF setting is simply fantastic for achieving the Alexa texture; the PDF will be updated on this as well (in Premiere, the preview can look a bit softer than actual export; the texture is decidedly improved and smoother)

@PannySVHS He isn't; I found him through a reddit post. I'll see if he might drop by to chat

@Jonesy Jones Impressive work.

On 9/23/2018 at 9:54 PM, ykt.net said:

Very good works ? Especially short horror film is great ! But what I noticed is that GHA color science makes video more retro (vintage) look. Am I wright you are saying that it is standard use ? Or what u are saying by "non-standard use". Also, is there any Arri Alexxa LUT's tested with GHA ? I want to see variations of use for this beautiful color science. Thanks.  

Main/Soft are low contrast color bases resembling film; it may indeed work well for a retro film aesthetic (as in 'Tilian - Cocky'). For non-standard use, people often use it in unexpected ways that will move away from true Alexa color. There's been a variety; grading before the conversion, using the conversion at a percent strength, using non-full spectrum NDs, using the Lumetri luma curve, shooting HLG/Cine-D over VLog (this is about to improve), grading LogC directly without a display Lut, placing black level very high (above 5 IRE), placing luma brightly (faces above 45 IRE anchor), ETTR into the rolloff, combining the LogC variation with Main/Soft

For Alexa luts, do you mean the Arri display luts for Rec709 etc? I'm going to do SBS comparisons with a variety of Lut options soon. Wild Ranger uses LogC film conversions with GHa occasionally, such as in Basta above

9 minutes ago, austinchimp said:

Thanks. To my eye the cine-d looks pretty accurate. Maybe technically there's a small shift to magenta if you use scopes, but the red jacket was nowhere near hot pink in real life.

It was straight out of the camera, so not transcoded to Prores. I'm still using a pretty old version of premiere - 2017 edition. Not sure if that has any bearing on it. I have found previously that Premiere does have a tendency to do this to red on occasion, where as Resolve will not, even with the same footage and same Lut. Never found an explanation for it.

Oh yea, that is, with the PRE there's a double shift to magenta from where it should be with the jacket red. The POST corrective will address this. The Cine-D itself is good, and has subtle variations of red hue

Yea; I noticed this oddity with Premiere ProRes; I've got to do a PRE for it eventually

3 hours ago, austinchimp said:

Hi @Sage

I've had great success with using EC on V-Log footage but I wanted to try it with Cine-D following your recommended settings. I'm having some trouble with the reds

Its an interesting case. Arri places the reds toward magenta, but this saturated region in your Cine-D shot has a double curvature with the Cine-D PRE. The other reds in the frame are where they should be.

The shot appears to have a slight magenta shift in the WB (may be introduced by lens/nd), but this won't account for the region. Attached is a corrective POST file to place after the 'Soft' variation (and before a grade). A couple inquiries - does the file happen to be wrapped in ProRes? How did it look by eye?

'Soft' with the corrective and a slight WB:

GHa Cine-D Red-Magenta Corrective .cube

17 hours ago, filmspa said:

Where can I watch more videos of GH5 using emotion color? I'm impressed with some of the pictures published here.

Will we able to use it in the BMPC4k also? I might buy one soon

Watch these in anything but Firefox (otherwise I love that browser). Ideally, watch in chrome with the RGB dev fix

'The Lane' is great:

This one is V1:

The interview portion:

V1 Era:

(While these often reflect earlier versions, and non-standard use in some cases, they stick out in my mind as having some really neat shots. 'Always Already' is the reference example, with Firecrest NDs for Day, and ensured correct post workflow)

18 hours ago, Maverick530 said:

Im running into an odd issue, When I record recording with a ninja atomos now.

So, Prores in Premiere.

I add the Prores Pre into the Basic, then Daylight or soft in the creative. But once that is done, my levels will stop at 80 IRE, nothing will go past it.

Indeed, that's how to verify its working. When ProRes is displayed at the right levels, the maximum IRE for Main will be 78, Soft 76, and LogC 78.

This is the 'Sicario ceiling' that is a core function of Main/Soft (the aesthetic of the original Sicario). The next update will introduce something called 'Linear', that will run above 90

Though correct levels are covered in the current Pdf, the next Pdf will go into more depth regarding standard luminance placement for cinema. This will be key, because 'Linear' will likely invite exposing and grading placement that may break from cinema standard luminance.

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Man all these new cameras are capable of outputting some serious Emotions.  A Happy, Happy screen grab  below. ?

Hehe, I love it!

On 9/16/2018 at 2:09 PM, mercer said:

@Sage can you post another link to the manual? I know it is somewhere in this thread but I can’t read through the entire thing again and I don’t see it on your website

The Pdf is in the midst of a major revision that will bring it up to speed (and the filesize will be smaller); it's on the way

22 minutes ago, mirekti said:

I have just purchased the pack, but cannot find anything Verde inside. Am I missing something?

Thanks.

You've got it (v2.2), even though it is labelled as V2 on the Pdf. In the future, the version # will be more visible (at the moment its tagged in the metadata of the file)

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. I'm deep in technical at the moment. I can be reached directly via email

On 9/12/2018 at 8:39 PM, mercer said:

So, how clean are the blacks with GHa? 

Noise amplification and artifacts are completely absent with the conversion (others feel free to chime in); the next update will hit the theoretical max for smoothness, for which I am very excited

13 hours ago, mirekti said:

It took me some time to read the whole thread, and of course this was too much info to comperhand at once. First of all, great work, it looks really nice. Now my questions:

1. I noticed some were using these LUTs with GH5S, but you have also mentioned one should email you in case when GH5S was used. Is this still the case? I mean is there GH5S version?

2. I was thinking of using V-Log recorded externaly to Atomos ProRes HQ at 4k 24fps, and 1080 at 120fps internally, but coudn’t conclude what was concensus on 120fps Vlog 8-bit or Cinema-D?

3. What about HLG, is it still less prefered than V-Log?

4. Finally, should one overexpose for V-Log 10bit 4k 24fps and if so how much, two stops? Also, for 120fps, how to expose for Cinema-D and how for V-Log 8 bit?

5. Ah, I do have one more. Are there monitoring LUTs available for all modes?

 

Thanks and cheers!!!

 

No S yet, I'm still completely occupied with updating the 5; in any case if I get to it, you will get it

All-I is on the level with ProRes, if you'd like to record internally

As of this moment, VLog is preferable to C-D & HLG, because of the directness of the conversion (the fidelity/smoothness is simply better). That gap is about to close considerably

For normal speed, you can overexpose, no need for more than a stop (avoid skintone around/above 65). Avoid underexposure* Of late, because of the nature of grading tools and complexity of hue lock outs, which I will cover in the next Pdf, I think it is best practice to try to expose for your preferred final image using the .vlt in the viewfinder (for reference performance, especially for PPro users).

For 120, *definitely overexpose - just avoid placing anything important deep in the rolloff. Monitoring Luts are for VLog only

5 hours ago, Téodor Spencer said:

@JeremyDulac It's just stunning. Very impressed with the results. Can I asked which lense you used -& filtration- ? 

I'm new here and I've been actually working with an Alexa Mini for quite a long time. I heard about Emotive Color yesterday, did some research and I still can't believe how organic the footage look with the conversion. Congrats @Sage, I'm definitely buying it.

Thanks man. The two biggest compliments I've received were from Amira shooters. Andrew Wilding said he preferred EC 'Soft' to the Amira itself, which made my day*

Here is a still using Verde and something more recent:

v2.2 Verde

?

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

It may microwave some popcorn. 

Excited for this

Canon has offered so little to the video crowd since the 5D2/7D ten years ago. Its a shame; they could be so much better.

18 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

there's a good deal of time and work that goes into that

That's the challenge. The P4K is definitely something special among cameras to me

28 minutes ago, deezid said:

Yh, seems like the ProRes footage is free of any sharpening and noise reduction as well. Really promising.

The datarates for 1080p DNG are great, but the downscale is key, and I hope they will do it well to ProRes (though I know you go 4K all the way)

29 minutes ago, Robin said:

I'm aware of your work on the gh5 but have not tested it myself. In truth I was thinking about it but I have started using my Fuji xh1 for still and video most of the time now, I find the eterna profile with sharpness and noise reduction turned down to to have a more pleasing, less 'processed' look.... The same reason I'm still looking at the p4k I guess 

Ah the Fuji. That's the other one that excites me; if only they would get 10 bit*. Eterna - the film stock - was my absolute favorite when they were still making it (over V3)

Just now, Robin said:

Unless the gh5 spits out raw and bypasses the built in noise reduction and sharpening I would be surprised if indistinguishable could be achieved. I'd imagine a very well made lut could get the colour close however and that would be most welcome regardless ?

I'm really excited for the P4K for this reason. The lack of IBIS is the only factor that keeps me from being a complete P4K fan.

The OLPF settings counter sharpening in the 5 nicely, but the purity of the P4K material will be a thrill

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Please, no more advertising in unrelated threads.

Right. Didn't intend it as advertising, just a joke (completely useless to Canon users), but I get you.

Question - is there interest in a solution to precisely match the GH5 to the P4K (and vice-verse)?
(would be indistinguishable from the other, no matter what is filmed)

7 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Alexa quality from a consumer mirror less

Emotive Color

36 minutes ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

I'm with you there, this shot was great - not too sure about the funky colours for the sunset (colourist's choice).

35 minutes ago, Snuff said:

Finally, a soft organic picture, but the sun, glare looks overdone. We need to carefully select the plot and shooting parameters to fit into the DR.

This won't be a concern

2 minutes ago, seanzzxx said:

No the 2x crop is only when shooting raw, Prores is downsampled 4k at no crop.

Ah, DNG. Full downsample to ProRes is what I'm looking forward to

1 hour ago, seanzzxx said:

1920 x 1080 (at a 2x crop)
CinemaDNG RAW - 66 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 32 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 24 MB/s

Question - is the 1080p mode only available with a 2X crop?

10 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

So I use the Pre and then skip the LogC conversion?

I read the PDF a few times but it got lost in translation, Maybe a tutorial video would be a little more helpful.

That's a good idea. I'm going to do a tutorial video, and streamline the vital points to emphasize them.

Yes, the Premiere PRE (for VLog) corrects a subtle green distortion in VLog shadows that is unique to Premiere. Then you may use 'Main' in the 'Creative' section. The LogC variation is a distinct workflow (exact copy of what comes out of an Alexa, as measured at every point in the colorspace) that requires a (3rd) display Lut.

Main prepares everything nicely, so that you are right in range of correct cinema luma placement (a place graders often go awry), have the correct Arri RGB display primaries for LogC, and have ideal saturation placement (especially with v2.2).

11 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

Ugh, I think I'm doing something wrong now. Maybe I was doing it wrong the whole time.

In premiere I put the GHa Daylight (LogC) into Basic Correction, Then in creative, Im putting the Pop, Main, Lut. But whats happening is my image is just lifting the gamma and not expanding at all...

Ah yes, that seems to be a common error. Its something I'd like to update the website to reflect, and not just have in the Pdf (many skip the Pdf). In Premiere, the standard route for VLog is to place the PRE (10 or 8 bit) in 'Basic', and then the conversion (Main/Soft/Pop or LogC) in 'Creative'. If you go the LogC route, then you'll need a second instance of Lumetri to use an Arri display Lut (or other LogC tailored Lut). Otherwise, just a black level placement is required to conform to cinema luma placement (Pdf)

Also, WB corrections (if needed) go in the first 'Basic' section, with the Temp/Tint sliders

P4K EC beta