Sage

39 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

What's your take on this

I'm in the comments there somewhere;  we both made the same mistake. We used a Sigma 18-35 on the DSLR, and the cheapest PL lens we could find on the Alexa. In my case, I used the Zeiss CP.2. In his case, he used the Xeen. I assumed that it must be neutral, because it is an expensive PL. I was wrong; the CP.2 had a very strong blue cast, and the Xeen a very strong green cast (I was once seriously considering buying them for the Arri).

V1 GHa had to compensate for this color distortion between the lenses (grayscale neutrality - the Sigma was incredibly neutral), and this affected the accuracy of the conversion. After that, I knew I would one day have to redo everything with the exact same lens on both cameras.

The video still has its value; the color separation of the Arri comes through, and the beautiful neon vibrancy in the tunnel combined with skintone. Also, love the song

1 hour ago, Mihnea said:

Is there any chance to share with us a raw (.ari) frame along with a h264 file from gh5? 

I did do side-by-sides, though not to Arriraw:

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/x3ub82eh21u63/ALEXA vs GH5 (Side-by-Side)

3 hours ago, anonim said:

Thanks, although I know all of that pretty well  I was just curious why Wild  Ranger would use LogC offer (aesthetically wise) as conversion starting point instead of recommended Main...

In his case, I believe he is using a Film Lut intended for LogC. Arri tends to be more rigorously supported by third parties (accurate film conversion). This would be a very different starting point from Arri's R709 Lut. Main/Soft are a nice place to start grading from (without further *technical transforms etc.)

6 hours ago, anonim said:

In the interest of annoying curiosity, is it possible with simple words to describe difference between LogC and, say, Main GHa conversion?  Why should - which specific "look" or further grading orientation having in mind - someone use one instead of another?

If it is complicate to answer, please don't bother...

Sure,

The format that the Arri Alexa actually shoots to is LogC. The LogC conversion conforms VLog to the exact output of the Arri (when the footage is WBed correctly under a supported light source)

From there, the LogC data format needs to be conformed to the display to allow the correct handling of RGB. The standard approach for Rec709 is to apply the Arri R709 Lut to the footage (which has the correct RGB primaries). Other Luts and workflows intended for LogC may also be used following the LogC conversion (the Alexa is often well supported by 3rd parties).

My experience has been that Arri's default 709 color space is a very uninspiring starting point for me. The underlying color science is great, but the luma and saturation placement is just not very cinematic.

Enter Main/Soft; these include the LogC conversion, combined with a luma and saturation placement that I much prefer (and conforms to the 'Sicario luma ceiling'). They include the Arri R709 primaries for correct RGB on a Rec709 display. The base look is informed by film (celluloid) luma and saturation. I may release this as a separate component for Arri users eventually (the 'Emotive Color' component)

The following is from an Alexa Mini (Master Prime 35mm):

LogC

Arri 709

EC Main

(Click to see in the correct dark context, the page is very bright)

5 hours ago, Wild Ranger said:

My order of operation goes this way:

Raw footage  ▶️  Mask corrections (like secondaries)  ▶️  Exposure & WB corrections  ▶️  Diffusion, vignette & optical fxs  ▶️  GHA lut convertion (to logC)  ▶️  Film stock lut  ▶️  "my grading"   ▶️  "my final grading".

In the interest of conversion fidelity, its worth noting that exposure corrections should go after GHa, and WB corrections before (the core LogC conversion is a delicate thing, so to speak)

19 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Here, I just tried this...

It´s graded using the "Main" lut. CineD-to-Vlog-to-GHa daylight "main".

 

I quite like Main - it was made to be an ideal 'grade space'

Smooth skin handling, filmic saturation envelope, and cinematic placement by default (just requiring black level). The core principle behind it was that all hues must remain identical in relative saturation and hue to LogC+709 (i.e. no color science change)

You've gotten to gold both ways though, bravo

58 minutes ago, mercer said:

Sorry to keep mentioning my 5D3 and ML Raw in your thread, but I just love that camera and image way too much to invest in a GH5 right now, but I am so impressed with what you’ve accomplished here that I need to have a go at it and the FZ2500 seems like a great option to me. I know it’s untested but I’ll be a guinea pig. 

Yeah, I noticed little difference between your GHA color and the color in the “Models” video from the P4K. 

With the Olpf settings, the texture rivals the Alexa (and this smoother style is a key quality of the 5D3 ML)

Of course, I would love to support the 5D3 eventually (they are rented out near me)

*On the identical note, that is that the P4K and GH5 both converted to LogC will be identical (assuming same settings and lens)

23 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

In the scene with the room in all red lighting I notice the new version, Verde, was handling much better the red saturation that the previous version, so cheers for that!???

 

Oh yea - extreme red saturation is now correct with Verde (there was an artifact out there before)

29 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Yes, is much easier to work. Sometime I use film stock luts for LogC. it depends on the project.

You're certainly doing great things with it! 

With Verde, a bit of roughness was introduced to the Day rolloff; this will be fixed soon

4 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Nope!

Ah ok - the note you wrote about GH5 Vlog made me think this might be the case. All-I - its really great (full codec glory)!

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Honestly, I think what you guys are getting out of the GH5/s with Sage’s post profiles make the new P4K almost pointless. Other than Raw, I see little benefit in color or even with ProRes... but I assume ProRes may have some more wiggle room in post, but you lose IBIS and the anamorphic modes with the P4K.

Very nice. I may be the first to test your Alexa color conversion on an FZ2500. I really enjoyed that camera and the prices just keep dropping on it. With an external recorder, 10bit 4:22 1080p is possible. But even the in camera 8bit will hopefully be enough. So basically a S16mm Alexa in a point and shoot camera... sounds like a bunch of fun to me. 

Alas, I'll have to find an FZ2500! hehe

I don't know how it will work (completely untested by me)

With the conversion, the P4K and GH5 will, oddly enough, look identical

@Wild Ranger Do you use All-I?

16 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Yes, I do prefer shooting in CinelikeD, it uses more of the bit depth and i honestly don´t see a difference on dynamic range to justify V-log. I like to convert it to LogC and the push it from there.

Yea, the DR is the same (the ISOs are just named one lower)

Do you use the Arri 709 Lut after LogC?

1 hour ago, mercer said:

@Wild Ranger really nice work. You use the CineLikeD version, right? If so, then it’s nice to see how little work is needed from LogC to the finished grade. Very cool. 

The first stills are the ungraded Cine-D - here's a frame with LogC and also Main routes (no WB tweak):

Cine-D Original

Cine-D to VLog + GHa LogC

Cine-D to VLog + GHa Main

Cine-D to VLog + GHa Main + Basic Luma Placement

25 minutes ago, Wild Ranger said:

Hi everybody!

It´s been a long time since the last time i pass on this forum.

Now i wanna share my last work, a fashion/music film.

Shot with GH5 and using @Sage Alexa color for starting point in the grading. Using 2,21 aspect ratio. Mastered in 2.3k (2386x1080)

Hope anyone can enjoy it.

PS: Soon I'll share some stills for comparison. 

I'm pretty thrilled with that. Visual masterpiece*

There are so many amazing shots

*Btw, I showed all your shorts to my friend this past weekend

12 minutes ago, JeremyDulac said:

 

@Maverick530 I attached a copy of the lut i ripped before they removed it from the site. You can also apply it as a 3x3 matrix: Bottom of page 7 in this document shows the matrix required: http://www.centron.sk/Storage/Document/Product/3453-2012-08-02_Alexa_LogC_Curve-Usage_in_VFX.pdf

Or a DCTL: last post on this thread: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=61073&p=348495

AlexaV3_EI0800_LogC2Film_EE_davinci3d.cube

Bravo ?

15 hours ago, Maverick530 said:

Does anyone know how to add the film matrix onto the image?
 

As best I can tell, Arri seems to have removed the film matrix option from the Lut generator. Its something I haven't experimented with, but I know that @JeremyDulac has a copy

On 8/26/2018 at 12:14 AM, mercer said:

Although, I definitely agree that The Lane looks really good, I’m not sure that it bests the best ML videos. There is a natural texture and depth to ML Raw, especially in regards to skin, that is unmatched in my opinion.

With that being said, there are features in the GH5 that make shooting a blast. And with Sage’s work, a lot of my previous issues with the GH5 are cured. So for certain projects, it could prove useful. 

Please post your results if you pick up Sage’s LUTS. You know he has a free one for CineLikeD if you want to get your feet wet.

The Lane is pre-Olpf update; the OLPF settings impart a texture which is very similar to the Alexa (the pinnacle of video texture)

On 8/25/2018 at 4:50 PM, majoraxis said:

What profile does a file have to be recorded in camera to wind up with an accurate GHAlexa and Like 709 file frame?

Seem like maybe they shot Like 709 and the converted it to something to convert it to GHAlexa?

Please help me understand what process was used to generate the same exact frame used for comparison from the link above and if it is considered an accurate example of what GHAlexa can do.

Thanks!

I believe they used the Varicam 709 Lut on a VLog frame, to compare it to GHa on the same frame

The Varicam 709 Lut is available here

*Amazing work from Ryan Glover:

And Ryan on the GH5S:

1 minute ago, anonim said:

Panasonic bought you patent for a fortune and will make it as free update?

Lol, not quite, but it will be a free EC update - and its stunning

5 hours ago, anonim said:

https://imgur.com/a/X8Obc3g

Love 'em.

Btw, got something really cool coming up.

13 hours ago, katlis said:

Here's a quick test from tonight. 

The sequence labeled GHAlexa is PRE and GHa Daylight LUT only, no luma adjustments. 

V-Log L,  Full-HD All-I, 60p & 24p, 400 ISO, auto white balance
SLR Magic Anamorphot-40 1.33x + Polarizer
Panasonic Lumix G 25mm f/1.7

De-squeezed frame is 2560x1080.

Looks excellent. Well exposed, and the auto WB seems to have done well

36 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Any environmentalist worth his/her salt would immediately point out to his dislike of public transportation

Keep in mind the Hyperloop and Boring project*

On 8/15/2018 at 4:24 PM, katlis said:

Thanks for the tip! Last night I tested Full-HD All-I using the SLR Magic 1.33x anamorphic + 20mm and got some nice results. Desqueezing in Premiere nets 2560x1080 files (2.37:1). I'll try to post samples soon.

Looking forward to it!

17 hours ago, A. L. said:

Thanks... I used the main GHa workflow. The film lut used was for arri rec709, that flatten the image a bit. Looking to try out the next video to see the full color range of GHa conversion ?

They do support LogC directly, which would allow for a technically precise color shift - though I can see why the main+709 would be a compelling route

23 hours ago, katlis said:

@Sage Nice work on this, I had a chance to play with them last night with my new GH5. Can't wait to shoot something interesting!  

I have a question about something you mentioned on Vimeo, saying Full-HD All-I was the best shooting mode for GH5 (slightly upscaled to 1998x1080 [1.85:1 2K]) . Can you expand on that a little? Are you saying it's just better than 4K LongGOP or 4K All-I too?

Its better than Long GOP; you'll be fine with either intra. The 2K is a great sweet spot, in that its an excellent downscale with copious bitrate, and 60p (and works on conventional cards). It is all the more important to use the OLPF settings with 2K, as the sharpened texture is inherently more apparent in 2K.

31 minutes ago, Ryley K said:

Thanks! I set the WB to give off the best red and blue sky using V-Log. As for the border I took bits and pieces from different sources around the web and added them all in Photoshop and then animated the border movement in After Effects!

Mmm I get it. Maximal color separation in the WB

I've got a cool idea for mixed artificial lighting that I'm going to test soon

On 8/13/2018 at 5:12 AM, A. L. said:

My recent trip to Guilin China, shot on gh5s and color graded using the latest Verde version with overlay of ImpulZ film lut ? loving the colors.

Looks great, there were a lot of really nice shots. Is that with the LogC workflow?

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

@Sage good to know, thanks! I’ve heard that an upressed file exported as ProRes does help to trick Vimeo and YouTube.

Good luck with your film projects by the way!

Thanks Mercer, the next one should be pretty cool!

@mercer I just export the 1080p timeline at 2.5K (from Premiere in the case of AA). This causes a more organic resample of the 1080p 'grid', though the main benefit is that good 1080 is possible on streaming sites when a 2.5K file is uploaded (sufficient bit rate at 2.5K for a rich 1080, listed as '2K')

Indeed the downsample is the same for 60. All pixels are used to create a very detail dense 1080p on the GH5. Paired with the OLPF settings (listed on the last page of the PDF), you can get a smooth, yet detailed image (like the Alexa and film). I love it!

I applaud that feat! For the side-by-side, be sure to check out the V2 raw footage side-by-sides, which were correctly shot with the exact same settings and same lens (how V2 was made)

The 2k All-I mode is really spectacular (for 2K). The downscale is pristine, and with the Olpf settings it is silk. This is what I shoot, and at 59.9Hz, All-I 10 bit 60fps is available

Always Already is all 2K All-I with digital OLPF (download the 'Original' file)

What do you think of the Ikan Lyra LBX30?

Its meant to compete with something like a Skypanel, but at a fraction of the price