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Nx1: 16-235 vs 0-255


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I would be very interested to see a test between a 0-255 -> then converted to 16-235 in the NLE  vs a 16-235 recording.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you export your editing (youtube, mp4, H264), you end up in a 16-235 color space right ? 

Yes but in between there is a grading step. Its where the extra information might be useful for some people. 

So the test would be 0-255 --> grading  (0-255 rgb space) --> 16-235 delivery  vs a 16-235 recording --> grading (0-255 rgb space) --> 16-235 delivery

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Yes, we know both capture the same info (nothing gets dropped at the top or bottom), the difference is in how they get ENCODED. I.e., which part (lows, mids, highs) gets preference in terms of space o

Here more info: https://www.divergentmedia.com/blog/samsung-nx1-h265-luminance-ranges/  

Better color tonalities & less banding are expected theoretically with more bits as mentioned earlier in this thread. Your tests confirm that. The differences are subtle but still there.  Som

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Don, that's exactly what I mean (but you expressed this much better than I did). I'd be interested in seeing a comparison with the same luts applied to both 16-235 and 0-255 (eg the one by Andrew first to flatten the image and then another one to make the final image) to see if there is any difference in the final products.

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Neo, very interesting! But look at the last comment there:

 

"yeah I did some tests to try and figure out once and for all if there was a difference between 0-255 and 16-235 settings in the GH4. I shot a light against a white wall so it blew out in the center and was about 50% grey on the edges. And there was noticeably more banding in the 16-235 setting. Have been shooting 0-255 ever since."

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  • 7 months later...

Since Premiere clips 0-255 mode in shadows and highlights, I also use the 16-235 to be able to edit without adjusting every clip. But there is another reason - it somehow looks like 16-235 mode is getting about half a stop more before highlights blow out. Although I've never tested it on PC, it's clearly visible in camera when you switch from 235 to 255 mode in a just-about-to-clip-highlights scene, in 255 mode the highlights are gone. But one thing I'd like to know - when you don't have a high contrast scene, maybe it would be better to shoot in 0-255 mode for less banding?

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Noticed the highlight clipping in 0-255 vs 16-235 as well @ReinisK there is def more DR there...strange.

shot with 0-255 recently and regretted it especially when I see the results of 16-235 which were much better @Geoff CB

Gonna try 16-255 next because premiere clips 0-255 blacks and when I grade with impulz luts it brings the highlights back into range but the results arent as good as the shadows. 16-255 could be a good balance, will test

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5 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

I think this topic has been up on Eoshd right after GH4 hit the market, since it allows to either shoot in 0-255 or 16-235. Can´t go wrong with 0-255 as this video shows.

I think Floris pretty much did this video just for the people of Eoshd back then.

 

I Think the luma range system works entire differently for the nx1 than the gh4 although it shouldn't. The luma ranges on the nx1 affects how it camera will compress the image. I just about always encounter weird artifacts and macro-blocking in some of my clips after a day of shooting with 0-255. 16-235 doesn't have these artifacts or they are "hidden" in the deep shadows where as 0-255 seems to be amplifying. My guess is that the picture profiles change how their curve is mapped based on the luma range selected

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I have captured many 0-255 scenes in H.264 and never had clipping in Premiere. It has only happened since using HEVC so I honestly believe that Adobe has made a mistake with this codec and that it does not recognise the correct luminance range.

A simple test: take a frame capture in camera, bring the resulting capture in to the Premiere timeline and there is the correct tonal range, bring in the clip and adjustments will need to be made, can't be right. I use the Brightness & Contrast filter on an adjustment layer: Brightness -3, contrast -15, this seems to bring the scene back close to the original point if comparing to a single frame capture, some use Fast Color Corrector and adjust input/output levels but I find that colours still appear to be over saturated.

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12 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

I Think the luma range system works entire differently for the nx1 than the gh4 although it shouldn't. The luma ranges on the nx1 affects how it camera will compress the image. I just about always encounter weird artifacts and macro-blocking in some of my clips after a day of shooting with 0-255. 16-235 doesn't have these artifacts or they are "hidden" in the deep shadows iwhere as 0-255 seems to be amplifying. My guess is that the picture profiles change how their curve is mapped based on the luma range selected

I'm not too familiar with the technical details, but I've always gotten much more pleasing images out of 0-255. Perhaps the increased bitrate hack would solve this.

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Below is comparsion of 16-235 and 0-255 (converted in Premiere to 16-235 according video above) + same images with lifted shadows in Lumetri.

Both same exposure, WB, Standard profile, 180Mbit bitrate, ISO 320

I think that converted 0-255 looks better, it has at least more accurate colours (wall is more orange in reality) in shadows, otherwise it looks same in to me (even in video)

 

comparsion-luminance.jpg

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