Tulpa Posted Thursday at 06:24 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 06:24 PM On 8/6/2025 at 4:54 AM, kye said: If you're a masochist then you can even go ahead, setup the mirrorless and hit record, go back again and ride through the frame, then go back and retrieve the camera. It seems like a great way to shoot a film and a spectacular way to remove as much pleasure from the experience as possible. This is hilarious… and exactly true! 😂 The other option is to just put this upcoming project aside and join a Buddhist monastery… but I’m going to try to take one last run at this type of thing and see what kind of ‘happiness’ it leads to. Lets see… kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted Friday at 04:39 AM Share Posted Friday at 04:39 AM On 8/6/2025 at 11:54 AM, kye said: It seems like a great way to shoot a film and a spectacular way to remove as much pleasure from the experience as possible Indeed. These kind of productions seem to be as much about the presenter as they do the subject/location with every scene being, “here’s me on my epic adventure and here’s me talking to an impoverished local and here’s me deeply respectful at the local temple”. Ie, if it isn’t about you, you can skip all that shit. Some folks are famous because they are in front of the camera and others from being behind. Tulpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted Friday at 04:50 AM Share Posted Friday at 04:50 AM I'm going to revise my choice for this type of use. Camping and biking mean to me that one camera might not suffice if going Panasonic. I do not think that the OM-3 will give acceptable levels of noise inside a tent at night unless with a small light; nor do I believe the S9 by itself will give acceptable levels of weather resistance (by the way, I doubt the Panasonic 14-140 does either even though it's rated weather resistant). Therefore, I would still go for the S9 with a 18mm f/1.8 lens for dark, inside a tent scenes and the 28-200. For bad weather, I'd get an action cam. This will eliminate bad-weather low light; maybe pick up a camera cover for the S9. At MPB, that setup will set you back 2500 euros. The other option is the "do everything" set-up with the OM-3 with the Olympus 14-150 ii and the Panasonic 9mm for about the same amount of money, but you'll be spending more on the camera (double!) for less quality output (but still great). If you are a disciplined shooter that usually uses a tripod and manual focus, there are options that will cost way less. That OM-3 setup is about 950g and the S9 + action cam setup is 1300g. Note: Camera size doesn't have the Panasonic 18mm list, but it's the same size as the 24mm. Again, this is for 10-bit with great IBIS and AF being the priority. I'd go with a much cheaper setup if it were me. I wouldn't want to take that expensive of gear out into the unknown. It's a close call though. There are so many good choices. It almost makes you say "screw it" and just use whatever you have with its limitations. If you're a creative, this is usually better. eatstoomuchjam and Tulpa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted Friday at 05:23 AM Share Posted Friday at 05:23 AM 35 minutes ago, John Matthews said: I'm going to revise my choice for this type of use. Camping and biking mean to me that one camera might not suffice if going Panasonic. I do not think that the OM-3 will give acceptable levels of noise inside a tent at night unless with a small light; nor do I believe the S9 by itself will give acceptable levels of weather resistance (by the way, I doubt the Panasonic 14-140 does either even though it's rated weather resistant). Therefore, I would still go for the S9 with a 18mm f/1.8 lens for dark, inside a tent scenes and the 28-200. For bad weather, I'd get an action cam. This will eliminate bad-weather low light; maybe pick up a camera cover for the S9. At MPB, that setup will set you back 2500 euros. I also doubt that "weather resistant" is sufficient for the random deluges that are likely to happen over that duration of trip, although it's absolutely worth reading the manufacturers description of what "weather resistant" means, just so you know what they are thinking of when they use the phrase. It might be a lot more (or less) than what you might be thinking. This is something I have pondered for some time but haven't gotten around to. Better to just get something completely waterproof and be done with it. Then you can record in monsoon rains and get good footage of waist-deep water, which would be a highlight of the doco in itself. I would also suggest that the "bad weather low-light" situation isn't really that important. Realistically, if it's bad weather due to rain or due to dust at night then you can't see that much anyway. Just turn on your bike lights or headlamps and film the chaos. My setup doesn't cover the "long-zoom low-light" combination because it's not a thing that you need to shoot normally, and while it would be great to have, I have only ever wanted this combination for taking shots out of the hotel window at night in Seoul, and that's hardly a situation to design my whole setup around. I'm also surprised at how compact the 28-200mm lens is on the S9, it seems quite manageable. Tulpa and John Matthews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted Friday at 12:57 PM Share Posted Friday at 12:57 PM 7 hours ago, kye said: I would also suggest that the "bad weather low-light" situation isn't really that important. Realistically, if it's bad weather due to rain or due to dust at night then you can't see that much anyway. Just pointing out that "weather sealing" is useful for more than just filming in the rain. It's also protection against dust (which is a very common problem in arid areas). It's protection against something in your bag breaking open and leaking on the camera. Or your tent leaks in the rain at night and you had your camera sitting out. Or you just drop it in a puddle/fountain/shallow water for a second. And yes, it is good to understand how weatherproof something really is, but simply having gaskets around a lot of the buttons and on the lens mount is a big deal. And sealing on a zoom lens can be even more important in a dusty area so that zooming the lens doesn't suck in a ton of dust. Tulpa, John Matthews and kye 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowfun Posted Friday at 04:53 PM Share Posted Friday at 04:53 PM Isn’t the question “what camera should I take in addition to the Insta360?” Thats the starting point. Size wise FX2/3/30 might be worth looking at? I suppose it all depends, too, on the intended audience - family & friends, film festival submission, BBC documentary etc. I think if I was undertaking such a mammoth project I’d want a decent cloud account to offload files as I go. The Blackmagic offering might be worth investigating? Sounds fun. And hard work! Tulpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted Saturday at 04:28 AM Share Posted Saturday at 04:28 AM 11 hours ago, Snowfun said: Isn’t the question “what camera should I take in addition to the Insta360?” I agree. The ability to reframe in post is incredible. It even goes beyond that because you are essentially recording every camera angle at all times, so if there was something that happened around you, you could cut between multiple angles of the same event. Even if you were psychic and were always pointing your normal camera in the best direction at all times, you couldn't record multiple angles at the same time with one camera, so it goes even beyond the mythical psychic camera person. I saw a great example of this many years ago.. it was a guy recording his family walking through a fairground with mum and the kids walking behind him. The sequence was something like: his kids calmly looking around someone in a scary costume approaching from ahead his kids not seeing them scary monster seeing the kids and having the idea to scare them and starting to approach mum seeing him and smiling, knowing what is about to happen the kids suddenly seeing him and reacting very suddenly / loudly the monster reacting to their reaction the kids laughing the monster laughing mum laughing monster walking away It was essentially a three-camera shoot, and like all good reality TV I'm pretty sure he overlapped the shots to extend the event, which probably only took about 5 seconds. The killer thing is that just by having a 360 camera you're recording all the camera angles all the time, so when the thing happens you've probably got all/most of the angles to show it happening. Just get the one with the highest resolution and highest bitrates. When you crop in you're drastically reducing the quality of the footage. John Matthews and Tulpa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 14 hours ago Author Share Posted 14 hours ago On 8/7/2025 at 11:39 PM, MrSMW said: Indeed. These kind of productions seem to be as much about the presenter as they do the subject/location with every scene being, “here’s me on my epic adventure and here’s me talking to an impoverished local and here’s me deeply respectful at the local temple”. Ie, if it isn’t about you, you can skip all that shit. Some folks are famous because they are in front of the camera and others from being behind. Well said. And truth be told, I've never felt exactly comfortable in front of the camera... but I do like to be taken by the hand by other filmmakers as they lead me through unconventional stories that move the heart and imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 14 hours ago Author Share Posted 14 hours ago On 8/7/2025 at 11:50 PM, John Matthews said: I'm going to revise my choice for this type of use. Camping and biking mean to me that one camera might not suffice if going Panasonic. I do not think that the OM-3 will give acceptable levels of noise inside a tent at night unless with a small light; nor do I believe the S9 by itself will give acceptable levels of weather resistance (by the way, I doubt the Panasonic 14-140 does either even though it's rated weather resistant). Therefore, I would still go for the S9 with a 18mm f/1.8 lens for dark, inside a tent scenes and the 28-200. For bad weather, I'd get an action cam. This will eliminate bad-weather low light; maybe pick up a camera cover for the S9. At MPB, that setup will set you back 2500 euros. The other option is the "do everything" set-up with the OM-3 with the Olympus 14-150 ii and the Panasonic 9mm for about the same amount of money, but you'll be spending more on the camera (double!) for less quality output (but still great). If you are a disciplined shooter that usually uses a tripod and manual focus, there are options that will cost way less. That OM-3 setup is about 950g and the S9 + action cam setup is 1300g. Note: Camera size doesn't have the Panasonic 18mm list, but it's the same size as the 24mm. Again, this is for 10-bit with great IBIS and AF being the priority. I'd go with a much cheaper setup if it were me. I wouldn't want to take that expensive of gear out into the unknown. It's a close call though. There are so many good choices. It almost makes you say "screw it" and just use whatever you have with its limitations. If you're a creative, this is usually better. Good to have your extra and revised insights here John. Thank you. Yes, a combination of an action camera and a decent smaller unit seems the way to go. However, I think we'd agree that it would be great to have just one robust unit that we know and trust. But, of course, everything is a compromise. With so many variables, I never put much faith into 'weather' sealed ratings. Sometimes one just has to spend and put these things through their paces until they just no longer work. Then grab a new one, and keep going. "There are so many good choices. It almost makes you say "screw it" and just use whatever you have with its limitations. If you're a creative, this is usually better." - This! Finally, at the end of the day, we know a camera should be mostly intuitive to use... and get the hell out of the way. I know that @Kye like the GH bodies... but notice no one here has said much about the GH7 as a work horse. It would be such a solid contender if they could get that low light up a bit. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 13 hours ago Author Share Posted 13 hours ago On 8/8/2025 at 12:23 AM, kye said: I also doubt that "weather resistant" is sufficient for the random deluges that are likely to happen over that duration of trip, although it's absolutely worth reading the manufacturers description of what "weather resistant" means, just so you know what they are thinking of when they use the phrase. It might be a lot more (or less) than what you might be thinking. This is something I have pondered for some time but haven't gotten around to. Better to just get something completely waterproof and be done with it. Then you can record in monsoon rains and get good footage of waist-deep water, which would be a highlight of the doco in itself. I would also suggest that the "bad weather low-light" situation isn't really that important. Realistically, if it's bad weather due to rain or due to dust at night then you can't see that much anyway. Just turn on your bike lights or headlamps and film the chaos. My setup doesn't cover the "long-zoom low-light" combination because it's not a thing that you need to shoot normally, and while it would be great to have, I have only ever wanted this combination for taking shots out of the hotel window at night in Seoul, and that's hardly a situation to design my whole setup around. I'm also surprised at how compact the 28-200mm lens is on the S9, it seems quite manageable. Well said Kye, thank you. I've seen your work over the years, it's impressive just how much you are able to ring out of your bodies and lenses. Seriously. And yes, the S9 and 28-200 seems like it can deliver as a smaller unit. I wonder how much larger things get when professional audio comes into play. kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 13 hours ago Author Share Posted 13 hours ago On 8/8/2025 at 7:57 AM, eatstoomuchjam said: Just pointing out that "weather sealing" is useful for more than just filming in the rain. It's also protection against dust (which is a very common problem in arid areas). It's protection against something in your bag breaking open and leaking on the camera. Or your tent leaks in the rain at night and you had your camera sitting out. Or you just drop it in a puddle/fountain/shallow water for a second. And yes, it is good to understand how weatherproof something really is, but simply having gaskets around a lot of the buttons and on the lens mount is a big deal. And sealing on a zoom lens can be even more important in a dusty area so that zooming the lens doesn't suck in a ton of dust. Thank you for pointing this out eatstoomuchjam. Entirely true on the dust factor... I'd say that this can actually be more important that rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 13 hours ago Author Share Posted 13 hours ago On 8/8/2025 at 11:53 AM, Snowfun said: Isn’t the question “what camera should I take in addition to the Insta360?” Thats the starting point. Size wise FX2/3/30 might be worth looking at? I suppose it all depends, too, on the intended audience - family & friends, film festival submission, BBC documentary etc. I think if I was undertaking such a mammoth project I’d want a decent cloud account to offload files as I go. The Blackmagic offering might be worth investigating? Sounds fun. And hard work! Thank you for the FX suggestions... I'd overlooked these units. And yes, the decision on how to store and backup files certainly comes into the picture. I guess it's a matter of price and connection speed which are the variables. I'll keep your Blackmagic suggestion in mind. Hard work... yes! It's one thing to show up somewhere, rent a flat, and then plug into a city for material. Quite another to do it from a moving bicycle. The good news is that others have done it with impressive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 13 hours ago Author Share Posted 13 hours ago On 8/8/2025 at 11:28 PM, kye said: It even goes beyond that because you are essentially recording every camera angle at all times, so if there was something that happened around you, you could cut between multiple angles of the same event. Even if you were psychic and were always pointing your normal camera in the best direction at all times, you couldn't record multiple angles at the same time with one camera, so it goes even beyond the mythical psychic camera person. I just saw my first 360 material from a bike last night and although it was interesting to be able to cut back and forth from multiple angles, I just couldn't get past how distorted everything was on the wides... and it seems to me that this doesn't go away when cropping in. Maybe I need to check out some other material to get a better sense of things... but I like it that you've thrown this option into the mix. Thanks! kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa Posted 13 hours ago Author Share Posted 13 hours ago Does anyone have anything to say about the Fuji XT cameras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 8 hours ago, Tulpa said: Does anyone have anything to say about the Fuji XT cameras? Yes 👋 My name is Simon. I was a full-time Fuji user from 2011-2020, but I then managed to kick that habit and have been 1537 days Fuji sober. But seriously, whilst there is not that much difference in body sizes, depending on the body such as a full-frame 6k open gate shooting Lumix S9 is much smaller than some more recent M4/3 options, it’s the lenses where the biggest difference tends to be. APSC obviously sits between M4/3 and full-frame and I personally think it’s now a bit of a meh option, being somewhat ‘less’ than full-frame and not having the ‘smallest, lightest, fastest’ ability of M4/3. And when I say fastest, I am referring more to AF speed if that is important to you because from experience, the Olympus/OM options trump Fuji in that department. I still can’t see past a mint OG (digital) Olympus OM-1 with perhaps a single one & done lens, the 12-40mm f2.8 giving you FF equivalent of 24-80mm. Plus the action cam. I would happily set off tomorrow to travel around the world for a year with that Oly option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 11 hours ago, Tulpa said: I know that @Kye like the GH bodies... but notice no one here has said much about the GH7 as a work horse. It would be such a solid contender if they could get that low light up a bit. Correct? I never used the GH7, only the GH6, but I found it to be great in low light; just not "no light" situations. Both of those cameras are mostly about 4k 120fps. The GH7 is about that and the AF in video and Hybrid Zoom. If the cost and size aren't the determining factors, the GH7 is the most fully-featured M43 camera for video today. Want the same features as the GH7? Go for the G9ii something smaller and cheaper, just no insanely long clips. In fact, the G9ii might be my last M43 camera as I don't see a point in anything more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 11 hours ago, Tulpa said: I know that @Kye like the GH bodies... but notice no one here has said much about the GH7 as a work horse. It would be such a solid contender if they could get that low light up a bit. Correct? I can vouch for the GH7 as a workhorse. In terms of low light, I'd say it's fine. Here are a couple of stills from the GH7 with the Voigt 17.5mm F0.95 lens. I can't remember if the lens was fully wide-open or not, but I think the GH7 was at ISO 1600? These have a film grain applied, so the grain is deliberate. GH7 ISO tests are available online if you want to see the grain at various settings. Also remember that NR exists in post, and compression does a pretty good job of NR as well. The first shot is lit from the candle and the light of the fridge: and this is just the candle: Here's are some shots from the OG BMMCC from 2014 at its base ISO of 800, the 12-35mm F2.8 lens and shot at a 360 shutter to cheat an extra stop. These locations looked about this bright with the naked eye, and I have excellent night vision. You actually need far less low-light performance than most people think. 11 hours ago, Tulpa said: Well said Kye, thank you. I've seen your work over the years, it's impressive just how much you are able to ring out of your bodies and lenses. Seriously. And yes, the S9 and 28-200 seems like it can deliver as a smaller unit. I wonder how much larger things get when professional audio comes into play. Thanks! 11 hours ago, Tulpa said: I just saw my first 360 material from a bike last night and although it was interesting to be able to cut back and forth from multiple angles, I just couldn't get past how distorted everything was on the wides... and it seems to me that this doesn't go away when cropping in. Maybe I need to check out some other material to get a better sense of things... but I like it that you've thrown this option into the mix. Thanks! The issue is that you're either showing a very wide FOV, which will have significant distortions, or you're cropped in to the point where the quality is low because you're cropping out most of the data. IIRC, If you have a 100Mbps 360 image then by the time you crop to the FOV of a 24mm lens you're down to something like only a few Mbps. This is why I said the bitrates are what matters most. John Matthews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted 19 minutes ago Share Posted 19 minutes ago 12 hours ago, Tulpa said: Does anyone have anything to say about the Fuji XT cameras? I've never owned a Fuji camera myself, but one major reason I haven't is that many of their cameras don't support 'plug-in power' for external mics, which some camera-mount mics need (or can detect to perform auto mic on/off). You need to check the user manuals carefully if that's important to you. The X-M5 does appear to support it (but e.g. the X-T50 doesn't), so maybe future cameras will as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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