Nikon Zr is coming

[Kino]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Admittedly only looking on my phone but I wouldn’t know which is which unless I was told.

At the extreme, I am sure the RED camera has a marginally better image/latitude, but for 99% of the time for 99% of real world users needs (the latter of which is not RED’s market of course)…

The 2 best things this camera has is the image quality using the RED raw 12 bit and that screen.

Your eyes do not deceive you. There are some very subtle differences in the skin tonalities, but the major difference between the two images I posted above is in the resolution: 6K vs. 8K.

The Komodo 6K and Komodo X have also been tested against the ZR, but both those cameras suffer from IR pollution in the comparisons. In this regard, the Nikon has an advantage!

[KnightsFan]

4 hours ago, ND64 said:

Mood? I'm just saying we have never seen a cinematic work done by the Undone, and yet he thinks he is the one who defines what cine camera should be. 

I think Gerald got the categorization right, and of all the things you can call the ZR, cinema camera is not one of them. No reason it can't be used for great movies. There's also no reason you can't pull still frames from a Komodo and sell them as photographs without it being a photo camera or even a hybrid. You don't need to be a photographer or a cinematographer to understand categories of tools.

9 hours ago, Kino said:

$2K vs. $15K

Not 16 bit, but not bad!

The only problem here is that R3D NE (12 bit) is likely destined for much greater things, like the 8K Z9 II with a new sensor and better DR. That camera should be arriving in early 2026.

The thing about these comparisons between cheap and expensive cameras is that it kinda works with all cameras. The ZR isn't unique in being indistinguishable from an expensive camera when shot in a controlled environment and viewed in compressed 4K YouTube videos. It's been a few years since I had any concerns about pure image quality from really any camera.

I for one have high hopes for Nikon/Red going forward, which is why I'm relatively disappointed that their first camera is not really ergonomically catered to what I'd like.

[eatstoomuchjam]

35 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I think Gerald got the categorization right, and of all the things you can call the ZR, cinema camera is not one of them.

If you're upset about hybrid-styled cameras with somewhat awkward ergonomics being called "cinema camera," you must have been frustrated since 2018 or so. 

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

I'd be inclined to say that "cinema camera" is just about as meaningless as calling an image "cinematic."  It means plenty of different things to different people.  "How can you call it a cinema camera when it doesn't even have SDI output?"  "That ain't no cinema camera, it has no mounting points on top or the sides!"  "Cinema cameras don't have autofocus" "Cinema cameras need to be dedicated to ultimate image quality and it's not a true cinema camera without 16-bit raw."

The ZR is obviously not going to be the A camera on a lot of professional shoots.  It has no TC, no SDI, bad HDMI, and bad memory card location.  On the other hand, it might finally be fulfilling some of the promise of the Komodo - a small, light crash camera that you easily fit in small spaces - or that you can easily throw at an AC/second shooter to go get some b-roll or a second angle handheld or with a light tripod and have it be a good match SOOC for what you're shooting with your Komodo-X or V-Raptor.  Lack of a physical shutter lock is a bummer for some crash cam use cases.

Sorry it's not for you, regardless!  I'd be willing to bet that the next iterations of the Z6/8/9/etc start working in Redcode NE too.

[KnightsFan]

5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If you're upset about hybrid-styled cameras with somewhat awkward ergonomics being called "cinema camera," you must have been frustrated since 2018 or so. 

That's my secret, Cap. I'm always angry 🙂

Since you never know on the internet, I'm mostly tongue in cheek with all that. I don't really care what anyone calls anything, I understand marketing always has a dubious relationship with the truth, and I always evaluate purchase decisions based on the capabilities rather than name. (And I said the same thing about the "box" moniker someone slapped on the C50 rumors, so I'm not here bashing Nikon.)

But in seriousness, the broader a term grows, the less valuable it is. If everything is a cinema camera, nothing is a cinema camera.

[mercer]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

This was at the top of my YouTube feed today.

Genuinely thought at first glance it was going to be Mackey’s review of the ZR.

Maybe the world has got so twisted around that Depp is now cosplaying Mackey.

 

Or is Mackey playing Depp playing Mackey...

[ND64]

2 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

You don't need to be a photographer or a cinematographer to understand categories of tools.

Thats why The Creator shot on FX3 was so surprising for these  categorizer youtubers. 

Many of mirrorless lenses don't cover the image circle of Raptor's VV sensor. But the actual film makers don't care about the vignette and use them anyway. Its not like "You can use Komodo for still photography". Its like these filmmakers recognize these lenses as cine tools. 

[KnightsFan]

24 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Thats why The Creator shot on FX3 was so surprising for these  categorizer youtubers. 

Everyone knows you can use an FX3, or an iphone, or a 5D2, or a ZR to make a great movie, and they knew it before making clickbait videos about how crazy it is that someone would use the FX3 for their project. Doesn't make any of those into cinema cameras. If the definition of a cinema camera is that you can use it to make a movie, then let me just respond to a few work emails on my cinema camera -- which, btw, has seen use in some of my serious projects as the best tool forthe job in that scenario.

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

But in seriousness, the broader a term grows, the less valuable it is. If everything is a cinema camera, nothing is a cinema camera.

Now we are aligned.  The term has become meaningless (or always was meaningless).  😀

About the only real definition could be "a camera used to film something that screens in a cinema" and nowadays, that includes iPhones and GoPros.  Heck, a bunch of the best scenes (motorcycle jump, jumping from plane to plane) in the two latest Mission Impossible films were shot on the humble Z Cam E2-F6 and I'm pretty sure it was recording ProRes 422 (HQ?).  On the big screen, it played just fine with their Burano/Venice (or whatever it was) that was used as the A Cam.

If that $3k camera, released in 2018 can play in a megabudget feature film, just about any camera on the market today can do the same - including your phone.  And now that same phone has a dock which will give it things like timecode and the latest version of it can record ProRes RAW internally.  Many of us read the news on our cinema camera daily while sitting on the toilet.  😉

[BTM_Pix]

31 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Many of us read the news on our cinema camera daily while sitting on the toilet.  😉

I hadn’t truly appreciated just how much of a normalised activity this was until I saw these for sale in my local supermarket recently.

 

I do fear for what people are eating who use this one if their bowel movements are such that they have to take their watch off to do it.

Although maybe that is to stop the watch thinking they are having a vigorous workout when they are doing a more old fashioned bathroom activity.

[BTM_Pix]

By the by, we have to look inward to determine what constitutes a cinema camera.

In my case, you could give me an Alexa and it wouldn’t be a cinema camera as I’d never be able to make anything for the cinema with it.

Unless I modified it to turn it into a popcorn maker.

[Ilkka Nissila]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

It has no TC, no SDI, bad HDMI, and bad memory card location. 

The ZR does accept timecode input via bluetooth and can output TC via HDMI. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

The ZR does accept timecode input via bluetooth and can output TC via HDMI. 

I stand corrected on that - though on most of the sets that I'm on, the sound engineer wants to plug their Tentacle Sync into a port on the camera.  I know that Tentacles communicate amongst themselves with Bluetooth, but I'm not aware of them being able to jam to any cameras that way.  I'd be delighted to be wrong about that too.

[Danyyyel]

14 hours ago, Kino said:

$2K vs. $15K

Not 16 bit, but not bad!

The only problem here is that R3D NE (12 bit) is likely destined for much greater things, like the 8K Z9 II with a new sensor and better DR. That camera should be arriving in early 2026.

I would beg Nikon yo do a liter version of the REDraw. Many will soon discover, that they can't shoot in it because it is too heavy, and literally not use the camera for what they bought it for. It is easy from some of the youtubers to film an hour of content to show in their 10 20 minute review. But it is not the same when you are filming for 1 2 hours on a five day project. I don't know REDraw size, but from some people who have used it, the datarate on the ZR is very high. 

[Danyyyel]

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

And that mount.

Megadap will be rubbing their hands at the amount of E mount lenses that may well be finding a home on this camera.

Not just from Sony defectors either but from new owners of the ZR who look at the plethora of appropriately sized E mount lenses on the new and used market and will consider the ZR as a de facto E mount camera.

 

I think Megadap wil be the worst nightmare of Sony. They are so fed-up waiting for some true update like an FX3ii, and they felt insulted by the FX2, which is a nighmare. Now even if the make an FX3ii they will sell it for twice the ZR, or lets say 1.5x, and who will buy the Fx2 nowadays, a camera 500USD pricier than the ZR. 

[Danyyyel]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It’s the international break.

The world turns to shit when there is no club football.

There is only so much England vs Andorra that people can take.

Everything will be OK again on Saturday.

I think half of the people here, think football is that sport played 99% with the hands LOL

[Danyyyel]

5 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I think Gerald got the categorization right, and of all the things you can call the ZR, cinema camera is not one of them. No reason it can't be used for great movies. There's also no reason you can't pull still frames from a Komodo and sell them as photographs without it being a photo camera or even a hybrid. You don't need to be a photographer or a cinematographer to understand categories of tools.

The thing about these comparisons between cheap and expensive cameras is that it kinda works with all cameras. The ZR isn't unique in being indistinguishable from an expensive camera when shot in a controlled environment and viewed in compressed 4K YouTube videos. It's been a few years since I had any concerns about pure image quality from really any camera.

I for one have high hopes for Nikon/Red going forward, which is why I'm relatively disappointed that their first camera is not really ergonomically catered to what I'd like.

Man, by his and your standard the Arri Alexa, Red Raptor and more importantly Film cameras are not cine cameras. On big set I have worked (Netflix) I was more of a set photographer, and if you had to see the level of complexity to set up those cameras, you would not believe how hard it is. You normally have two to 3 people on each cameras. For example I see many people saying this camera is not a cine camera because it records on one card . Guess what, even the most advanced RaptorX used in latest Hollywood Block busters Superman and Tron, u se only one card. And lets not even talk about Film cameras.