The Panasonic S1 II pricing is wrong, and so is the entire product strategy since 2018

[MrSMW]

On 5/16/2025 at 12:07 AM, EduPortas said:

It makes NO sense whatsoever and makes us long for the GH-1-2-3-4 pricing and innovativeness. 

Every single one of the original GH cameras had some sort of innovation that differentiated it from the rest of the Canon-Nikon-Sony parade. All of that was lost with the move to FF.

Funnily enough, a former client from 2014 contacted me today to say that she had 'lost' her wedding video and did I still have it?

After I stopped laughing, I thought hang on, it is probably still on Vimeo. And it was.

I thought it would look so dated and be an utter cringe-fest, but actually it wasn't and I was a bit surprised.

It was shot on the GH3.

[mtol]

17 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Not directly, but the Zoom F3 is close to the same size as the Panasonic XLR adapter, but only costs $300 where the Panasonic adapter adds $500.  It can mount on top of the Z3 and record 32-bit internally while giving a clean feed to the camera which can record 24-bit internally.  While it's less convenient to sync files in post, you would also only have to do that in cases where you actually need 32-bit which, for a vast majority of people, will be rare.

Also unlike the Panasonic adapter which will probably only work on Lumix cameras, it will work on any camera you want to use.  Less convenient, but the goal is accomplished.

I've thought about this and it is appealing on some level, but having to power multiple devices is still a drawback for me. Still, I do wonder how people are rigging up other systems - other than Sony / Panasonic - for run and gun sound, with the Tascam XLR shoe adapters seeming like a less than ideal setup.

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 hours ago, mtol said:

I've thought about this and it is appealing on some level, but having to power multiple devices is still a drawback for me. Still, I do wonder how people are rigging up other systems - other than Sony / Panasonic - for run and gun sound, with the Tascam XLR shoe adapters seeming like a less than ideal setup.

The Jazz Singer was released in October of 1927.  That would seem to indicate that people have made sync sound films for about 98 years now.  The first commonly-used 32-bit field recorders seem to have been the Zoom F6 and some Sound Devices something-or-other which were released about 6 years ago in 2019.

So... I'd expect that people who are shooting non-Sony, non-Panasonic cameras (or who are using those cameras without expensive 32-bit adapters) are probably still doing fine with 24-bit audio that everybody used for the 92 years before that, whether run and gun or otherwise.  😉

[mtol]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The Jazz Singer was released in October of 1927.  That would seem to indicate that people have made sync sound films for about 98 years now.

1927 doesn't really apply here. I'm a solo operator doing run and gun doc work, and I want the most unobtrusive and functional gear I can afford in 2025. I'm curious what peoples' mirrorless rigs look like where XLR input is a priority outside of the Sony and Panasonic systems.

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 hours ago, mtol said:

1927 doesn't really apply here. I'm a solo operator doing run and gun doc work, and I want the most unobtrusive and functional gear I can afford in 2025. I'm curious what peoples' mirrorless rigs look like where XLR input is a priority outside of the Sony and Panasonic systems.

No need for 1927 technology!  As recently as 2018, people were only doing run-and-gun film shoots without the benefit of 32 bits.  Heck, even now nearly every sound engineer I film with has a 32-bit capable recorder, but records in 24-bit anyway because they don't feel that 32-bit is needed.  The others?  Never upgraded to a 32-bit recorder.

As far as how people are connecting XLR, on my Reds, I plug in an adapter from the built-in little mini double-XLR port to the XLR mic - after all, using a camera that natively has XLR inputs.  A Komodo with that is probably either smaller or nearly the same total volume as a Panasonic S1 with the XLR adapter on top.
Z Cam also use a dual mini-XLR port.  I bet some models of Black Magic do too.
All are 24-bit, of course, and that's enough for most things.
On the Ronin 4D, XLR plug into the expansion unit.
On the Ursa Cine 12K, there are full-size XLR ports.

Otherwise, you already mentioned the CA-XLR2D which is barely any bigger than the Fuji or Sony XLR adapter.  That's available for Canon and Fuji.  It won't give 32-bit, but as before, 24-bit is still enough for most things.  Otherwise, you can just jump up to one of their more cinema-focused bodies.  The C70 has mini-XLR.  I'd guess something like an FX6 does too.

Otherwise, for an unobtrusive rig, one can just simply not use XLR and connect any number of extremely decent non-XLR microphones to the camera's mic input port.  One example would be the Deity V-Mic D4, though I'm sure Sennheiser and R0de have some too.  Still 24-bit, but for many uses, it's also just fine, just like it was for many years before 2019.

[Caleb Genheimer]

On 5/18/2025 at 6:55 AM, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'll look forward to Pyxis 12K bodies hitting the used market.  I'm a fan of the UC12K and would love a lighter b camera.

It's also worth note that even though it doesn't have it now, and I wouldn't buy a camera based on potential future capabilities, but I don't think that BMD has specifically said yet that there are no PDAF pixels in the 12K sensor and that it wouldn't be something that could be added in the future.  I think they're wise to beta their AF firmware on a single camera only for now to work out the kinks, but if they add usable AF to the 12K cameras, I think they know that they have a thing that could compel changes from other systems.

Heck, if AF comes to Pyxis, BMD might be the last great hope for L mount!

The AF is an intriguing potential bonus, but really they’ve built a narrative cine cam, which is tough to find at low prices. Sony already has Docu Cine locked down which is fine, they make good cameras for it, with top notch AF. I struggle to believe any company will bring heat to the AF game without also being a lens manufacturer (and BMD isn’t.) but I could be wrong. It’d be nice to have on the Pyxis in a pinch, but I don’t even own any electronic glass, so I don’t really care. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

The AF is an intriguing potential bonus, but really they’ve built a narrative cine cam, which is tough to find at low prices. Sony already has Docu Cine locked down which is fine, they make good cameras for it, with top notch AF. I struggle to believe any company will bring heat to the AF game without also being a lens manufacturer (and BMD isn’t.) but I could be wrong. It’d be nice to have on the Pyxis in a pinch, but I don’t even own any electronic glass, so I don’t really care. 

I'm not suggesting they should bring "heat," just that if they could bring it up to the level of Fuji or DJI, that would be very nice.  I'm not really sure what making lenses has to do with an electronic rangefinder, though (since that's basically what PDAF is).  I've never made a lens and yet, if I hold my Mamiya 7 up to my eye, I can see when the rangefinder point aligns with the viewfinder image.

Anyway, they've already rolled out continuous PDAF to a single camera as a beta.  It's a smart way to go since it keeps the test group smaller and they won't instantly develop a reputation as a company who does crappy autofocus.  Once they work out the bugs there and get it to a passable state, I expect that they will expand it to more cameras.  Is it necessary?  No.  Is it something I'd use sometimes on my UC12K?  Absolutely.  Certainly a lot less size/weight than the Focus Pro that's currently attached.  😅

[sandro]

How did topic turn out to be? Seems like this is best camera in the market right now?

[Andrew Reid]

On 10/22/2025 at 11:57 AM, sandro said:

How did topic turn out to be? Seems like this is best camera in the market right now?

I am considering going back to an OG S1H, just think the new cameras have lost that true flagship feeling, and the price isn't low enough to justify the trade-offs. Still no S1H Mark II but other than it being faster, and probably worse in low light with a more oversharpened image, I can't see what it will bring to the table and will probably be four or five and a half grand!

The S1R Mark II / S1 Mark II, whilst better than an S5 or S9, are not a good alternative to a Sony a1 or Nikon Z8.

And Fuji GFX 100 still has the best look of everything.

It makes full frame look like a toy!

[MrSMW]

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The S1R Mark II / S1 Mark II, whilst better than an S5 or S9, are not a good alternative to a Sony a1 or Nikon Z8

I don't know about the Sony A1 but against the Z8, the S1RII might be?

I do think the S1RII is the best of the line. It's more capable than the S5II/X for video and offers quite. bit more than the S1II for stills, so for hybrid users like me, is a bit of a gem.

8k 30p @ 300mpbs video with stellar IBIS, especially if the E stab is switched on with a quality that for every test I have seen, just looks better than the S1II.

Or 7.2k 30p open gate as I have been shooting most of this year, but pretty sure I am going to 8.1k 30p next year using the 2.39:1 crop markers (ie, the flexibility in post to do anything within a 17:9 output but see and shoot in pano mode).

From a stills perspective, I think my old A7RV had a slight edge, but I had my editing of those files absolutely nailed down to my taste and it's taken a little longer to dial in the S1RII and again, probably going to start using the in camera Jpeg 65x24 crop mode whilst retaining the full 3x2 raw file in case I wish to use it.

Having 5 custom photo and 5 custom video settings is fantastic as I have settings for 'everything' now.

Factor in the hybrid zoom function for stills (can only use it up to 4k in video mode) and the prime lens equivalent, is great for getting a 1.4x crop whilst still retains the full-size raw file, so again, great for composition.

I'm still debating over whether I can get away with just the Sigma 28-70 or whether I do need the 28-105 (for ceremonies and speeches and I probably do), if I start shooting in 65x24 mode where you lose so much height in favour of width, longer lenses tend to be too long for the format...

I am going to pick up the new 24-60 f2.8 for sure for video as pretty much every test shows that despite it not being an S lens, it's pretty exceptional for it's size, weight and cost.

I think Andrew, you'd come around to the S1RII in time, especially as the prices come down.

Better than the OG S5 and S9 easily. I love(d) the S9, but just not quite 'pro' enough for my needs and other than as a C cam, I won't use it as a primary camera in 2026, - too many niggles. Mainly too easy to jog a dial and have your settings off when shooting video and if shooting 1/50th at 30p as I am doing in a PAL region, aaaaaaaaargh, LED light flickering and banding!!

Better than the S5II other than for long static stuff.

Better than the S1II? I think so also as that I see as a more dedicated video camera or at least one with less stills capability and I think the colour is just better with the S1RII being a different sensor.

Would I trade it for a Z8?

Easily...but only as a sideways move as there are pros and cons to each...

S1RII to Z8 for stills? Probably...

My other S1RII for a ZR for video? Possibly, but only for that rear screen and the form factor.

S5II for the Z6III? For my static work, pretty equal.

Cost to change = not worth it, especially as a sideways move which it would be for me.

I loved my S1H and I do see my S1RII(s) as a mash up of the S1R and S1H but more capable than either, in a pretty decent body.

[Thpriest]

Do you think the Kolari magnetic oplfs might push the S1ii into the S1h territory as far as look goes? (Added cost of course)

[Andrew Reid]

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I don't know about the Sony A1 but against the Z8, the S1RII might be?

What follows is not my opinion.

Just a bunch of facts.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I do think the S1RII is the best of the line. It's more capable than the S5II/X for video and offers quite. bit more than the S1II for stills, so for hybrid users like me, is a bit of a gem.

8k 30p @ 300mpbs video with stellar IBIS, especially if the E stab is switched on with a quality that for every test I have seen, just looks better than the S1II.

Sony a1 is £2800 used now.

Let's suppose Sony a1 is same price at point of acquisition as a new S1R II - ok you may have to get a used Sony with a few marks and 10k shots on it, but such is the nature of the used market these days you'll easily find an offer with 1-2 year warranty like a new cam.

For 8K it is 422 10bit 500Mbit H265. The equivalent to H.264 at 1000Mbit.

300Mbit is a bit low for 8K and the much slower sensor in the S1R II means rolling shutter is problematic in the 8K and open gate modes.

But that's an ok trade-off if the price is lower.

But it is £2999 at WEX. So for sure the a1 is a direct competitor.

E-mount is more adaptable. I can even autofocus my manual focus lenses on it.

There's fewer native lenses for L, and fewer adapters.

E-mount is all-round superior because it's been around longer and has a larger installed user-base.

I like L-mount, but it just doesn't give you as wide a choice in glass.

And we must take into account the size, design and build quality of the body, where subjective opinion matters a lot - but there's no denying the S5 II body which houses the more powerful panasonic tech is a mid-range £1300 consumer-grade construction and feels like one, whereas the a1 is firmly in the professional bracket, along with the a9 series.

And AF on the Sony still way ahead.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Or 7.2k 30p open gate as I have been shooting most of this year, but pretty sure I am going to 8.1k 30p next year using the 2.39:1 crop markers (ie, the flexibility in post to do anything within a 17:9 output but see and shoot in pano mode).

Open gate is definitely a plus for the Panasonic.

As people who own multiple cameras though, my choice would be to bring out the trusty S1H for a grand when open gate or anamorphic is needed.

When it comes to other more common scenarios like autofocus shooting, higher frame rates, 4K/120p, low rolling shutter and a wider choice of lenses, most people would be served better by the a1 than the s1r II or s1H.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

From a stills perspective, I think my old A7RV had a slight edge, but I had my editing of those files absolutely nailed down to my taste and it's taken a little longer to dial in the S1RII and again, probably going to start using the in camera Jpeg 65x24 crop mode whilst retaining the full 3x2 raw file in case I wish to use it.

The a7rv sensor is fantastic.

Same sensor in the Sigma Fp-L... which is why I kept hold of it, despite it being an odd duck.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I think Andrew, you'd come around to the S1RII in time, especially as the prices come down.

I don't think I will 🙂

It's a great camera but just doesn't light my fire enough.

The Sony a1 is nearly 5 years old and has a better spec, a better lens mount, is smaller and better built.

The GFX 100 is king for manual focus vintage glass... the large sensor is just glorious, and the design - although it's a bit of a chonk - is just such a pleasure to work with.

I'd rather have the Sony a1 and GFX 100 at the core of my camera world, and everything else I add to that is either a bargain or a niche use.

For example I love my X-Pro3 for a small street photography camera, and the Ricoh GR OG.

Definitely considering adding an S1H to the bag again though, as it's entered bargain territory and is one of the very few modern mirrorless cameras still to have that oh-so-rare AA filter.

The S1H's image is better than the S5 II and the differences to the S1 II or S1R II are probably pretty tiny. 6K is enough for me.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Would I trade it for a Z8?

Easily...but only as a sideways move as there are pros and cons to each...

S1RII to Z8 for stills? Probably...

Z8 is the best spec on paper for the price in today's world.

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I loved my S1H and I do see my S1RII(s) as a mash up of the S1R and S1H but more capable than either, in a pretty decent body.

You mean in a worse body 😉

[Andrew Reid]

Some test results...

SlashCam have the S1R II 8K at 22ms, but I think open gate brings that closer to 30ms?

Sony a1 is at 15ms for 8K, no crop.

The 4K/120p is also much better / cleaner on the a1:

S1R II

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-LUMIX-S1R-II-Sensor-Bildqualitaet---Debayering--Rolling-Shutter-und-Dynamik--Rolling-Shutter---Panaso.html#RollingShutterPanason

This is important because 4K/120p is usually what sets apart your £3k new camera from a £1k used S1H.

Granted there's a few new features that have come through since.

But if you don't need the speed, the a1, S1R II, Z8 and so on seem a bit pointless to me?

There's so many cheaper options if 60p or even 30p is your only need.

a7 IV, S1H, Fuji X-H2, and so on.

[MrSMW]

53 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I don't think I will 🙂

Or maybe you will not 😂

I still stand by the ‘fact’ that it’s an excellent choice for my needs and the only alternative combo I would switch to right now at the end of 2025, would be Nikon Z8 + ZR + Z6iii (or perhaps 2x ZR’s) vs 2x S1Rii + S5ii and if a fairy waved her magic wand in my direction and said it could happen overnight with zero faff or cost, I’d accept her offer.

But as fairies don’t exist, I’ll just have to stick with what I have!