The Panasonic S1 II pricing is wrong, and so is the entire product strategy since 2018

[PannySVHS]

5 hours ago, Clark Nikolai said:

Um... you do realize what the nickname for this might be.

Of course, Lumexa😎

 

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Sort of, yes, but it's only a 24 megapixel sensor.  The resolution in super 16 mode or super 8 mode would be pretty low.  You'd be at 4k in S35, and closer to 2k in M43.

1:1 crop mode on the GH7 would be one of best right now for using S16 or Super 8 lenses.  You'd still have decent resolution and probably not be at 720p or less.

S16 gate on the S1II would be around 2100 x 1250px, considering a 2.88 crop factor and a 1.66 aspect ratio. That's not too bad, better than the og pocket. Mft sized gate would sport around 3000px in width.

[EduPortas]

I have no idea why Panny chose to go the expensive route for their cameras.

Up until the GH5 their products offered the biggest bang for the buck (GH5s was catastrophic bc it started this whole upward pricing trend).

Now? Not so much. GH6-7 were considerable costs upfront for anyone, let alone indie filmmakers.

Their FF lineup has been all over the place regarding prices. Why would anyone buy this new camera when the S5II and its different variations was released just some months ago? 

It makes NO sense whatsoever and makes us long for the GH-1-2-3-4 pricing and innovativeness. 

Every single one of the original GH cameras had some sort of innovation that differentiated it from the rest of the Canon-Nikon-Sony parade. All of that was lost with the move to FF.

A true fall from grace.

[D Verco]

Love a hot take like this. I kinda agree it's not going to get people to switch for the price. but it does offer a lot of features. 50/60p open gate is pretty cool. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Pyxis also does 72p open gate for not a lot more - though it can only do open gate 72p at 8K, 12k is limited to a mere 40.

And the UC12K does 12k open gate at 80fps and 8k at 144fps.

Komodo-X also does open gate at 80fps, though open gate on K-X is 17:9.

All of those cameras support those framerates in raw.  I think the S1 II can only do it in 10-bit or less formats, right?  Not a deal-breaker, but another limitation.

I don't know why anybody acts like shooting high FPS open gate is a hugely exciting feature, though.  Is shooting slow motion 3:2 really a huge use case?  For the sort of stuff that I shoot, we're usually delivering in scope and overcranking done rarely at best.

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I don't know why anybody acts like shooting high FPS open gate is a hugely exciting feature, though.  Is shooting slow motion 3:2 really a huge use case?

I would prefer to have it if I could for the few times I would like to be able to do 50% slow motion, but that option alone is not worth the compromise for me having to go back to a much larger and heavier camera over my S9.

Instead I accept the crop factor involved and have it on the mode dial rather than a default shooting option.

[ND64]

Thom Hogan:

"Nowhere in Panasonic's press releases or marketing information I've seen so far do they actually seem to know how to market their six different 24mp cameras (S1II, S1IIE, S5II, S5IIX, S9, and BS1H). In the S1IIE features list the sensor is listed as "inspired by the performance characteristics of the Lumix S5II," which tells you nothing. Those of us in the press these days are dealing with AI driven press releases, but I'm failing to even see the I in Panasonic's. Nothing tells me which 24mp camera to buy, let alone why I should buy it instead of Canon's, Nikon's, or Sony's. This feels like "stuff the channel and see if it sells" product management, not clear, user centric marketing."

[BTM_Pix]

38 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Their six different 24mp cameras (S1II, S1IIE, S5II, S5IIX, S9, and BS1H

Make that seven if you live in Europe with the S5D.

[Andrew Reid]

They must have needed to buy that 24 megapixel sensor in such large quantities, the 7 different models were a necessity.

And by the time the year is out, it might turn into 10!

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, ND64 said:

Thom Hogan:

"Nowhere in Panasonic's press releases or marketing information I've seen so far do they actually seem to know how to market their six different 24mp cameras (S1II, S1IIE, S5II, S5IIX, S9, and BS1H). In the S1IIE features list the sensor is listed as "inspired by the performance characteristics of the Lumix S5II," which tells you nothing. Those of us in the press these days are dealing with AI driven press releases, but I'm failing to even see the I in Panasonic's. Nothing tells me which 24mp camera to buy, let alone why I should buy it instead of Canon's, Nikon's, or Sony's. This feels like "stuff the channel and see if it sells" product management, not clear, user centric marketing."

If I were the modern day Chris and Jordan in a camera store somewhere I would try and explain it like this...

Buy the S5 II as it's cheapest, unless you need a few extra video features, which I'll explain in a moment. But if you're a photographer it's an easy choice, definitely S5 II best and cheapest. Unless you compare it to the Canon R8, Nikon Z6 II, Sony a7c, or wait actually I forgot the S9... That is the cheapest for photographers, except not if you are a photographer that needs to look through an EVF or wants a mechanical shutter. I'll explain what that does in a moment. But first, you say you're actually quite interested in video, so I'd recommend the S1 IIE instead, as the S5 II is already made obsolete by it, so pay the extra for the E version and you will get... erm... An E on the badge. Also are you sure you don't want to go all the way out to $3500 for the S1 II, yes that is $1000 more than a Z6 III for the same sensor and no N-RAW, worse body design, but it is the best Panasonic... for video... I think... At least for a month or 2 before the S1H II might come out, or it might not... Oh shit, we're forgetting the S1R II. That does 8K open gate now, they just gave it a firmware update. Hey, Johnny where're you're going... Come back Johnny! HEY! STAY AWAY FROM THAT CANON EOS R5 II FFS!

[MrSMW]

Can you say all of that again in one of Camera Conspiracies 'flashback' skits please.

Whilst wearing a blonde wig.

Money waiting if you put it on YouTube.

[Al Dolega]

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Is shooting slow motion 3:2 really a huge use case?

There are dozens of us!

[ntblowz]

4 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

There are dozens of us!

Oh yeah definitely quite a number of them want 60P opengate so they export all kind of ratio.

[eatstoomuchjam]

27 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Oh yeah definitely quite a number of them want 60P opengate so they export all kind of ratio.

I get wanting open gate for ratio changes, but 60p?  Am I missing something where everything is slowed down 2.5x?  Most of what I see is still presented at normal speed, give or take.  Or does the excitement mean that this new camera will be the harbinger of a new era of everything online seeming  v e e r r r y y y y   s  s  s  l  l  l  o  o   o   w   w   w?

[PannySVHS]

I just saw a video with the S1II, shot for a big review site. It was a rather lazy display of cinematography, in concept and realisation. Shouldn't working for a huge review site be rather inspiring for the tester to do the cameras justice when using it in the field! They don't make it easy for us to want to buy a camera. Good!:)

Nikon Z6III for 2100 Eur new, now that is a whole lotta camera for that price! Maybe there are some convincing comparison videos between Z6III and S1II with convincing video work. Names are both kinda equally meh.:)

[mtol]

Is there an audio solution for the Nikon Z6III that lets me input XLR audio (not to mention record in 32 bit)? Without this, they're not really comparable cameras for my use case.

Given though that this thread is about pricing, I'm frustrated obviously that the price is so high - but like my S1 and my S1H, I'll pick my S1II up once it hits 50% of MSRP on the used market, which seems to happen pretty fast for S bodies.

It is frustrating that the tarriff premium seems slapped on EU and Canadian customers as well.

[Al Dolega]

On 5/16/2025 at 3:59 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

I get wanting open gate for ratio changes, but 60p?  Am I missing something where everything is slowed down 2.5x?  Most of what I see is still presented at normal speed, give or take.  Or does the excitement mean that this new camera will be the harbinger of a new era of everything online seeming  v e e r r r y y y y   s  s  s  l  l  l  o  o   o   w   w   w?

I try to limit my social-media/vertical-video viewing, but even so I do end up still seeing a fair amount of slo-mo being used, especially obnoxious ramped slo-mo. So I can definitely see there being demand. I don't doubt you're not seeing it, though- the algorithm gives us all different things.

There's also anamorphic shooters and those who just want to shoot in a square-er format, too. And even those never touching slo-mo benefit from the demand for slo-mo as it generally brings down the rolling shutter in regular-speed modes, too.

19 minutes ago, mtol said:

I'll pick my S1II up once it hits 50% of MSRP on the used market, which seems to happen pretty fast for S bodies.

Yup, bought my S1 a little less than two years after launch, with the 24-105 and V-Log upgrade, in minty condition for $2200. Kinda hoping that S1H prices drop under $1K sometime soon, not sure if the tariff stuff will delay that though.

[eatstoomuchjam]

41 minutes ago, mtol said:

Is there an audio solution for the Nikon Z6III that lets me input XLR audio (not to mention record in 32 bit)? Without this, they're not really comparable cameras for my use case.

Not directly, but the Zoom F3 is close to the same size as the Panasonic XLR adapter, but only costs $300 where the Panasonic adapter adds $500.  It can mount on top of the Z3 and record 32-bit internally while giving a clean feed to the camera which can record 24-bit internally.  While it's less convenient to sync files in post, you would also only have to do that in cases where you actually need 32-bit which, for a vast majority of people, will be rare.

Also unlike the Panasonic adapter which will probably only work on Lumix cameras, it will work on any camera you want to use.  Less convenient, but the goal is accomplished.

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/field-recorders/field-recorders/f3/

15 minutes ago, Al Dolega said:

I try to limit my social-media/vertical-video viewing, but even so I do end up still seeing a fair amount of slo-mo being used, especially obnoxious ramped slo-mo. So I can definitely see there being demand. I don't doubt you're not seeing it, though- the algorithm gives us all different things.

That's also fair enough.  I don't rule out that there's much bigger demand for a feature than I'd expect, but that is certainly a weird one.

16 minutes ago, Al Dolega said:

There's also anamorphic shooters and those who just want to shoot in a square-er format, too. And even those never touching slo-mo benefit from the demand for slo-mo as it generally brings down the rolling shutter in regular-speed modes, too.

Yes, 3:2 is certainly useful with a 1.5 or 1.6x anamorphic adapter which, at least, gives a bit more of the anamorphic look.  Though for a 2x anamorphic, it's still far from ideal since you end up with 3:1 which looks nice, but ends up being a really thin strip on a lot of TV's and monitors and isn't a native aspect ratio on a lot of theater screens.

[Caleb Genheimer]

The elephant in the room for all us sensor nerds is gonna be that Pyxis 12K for the next ~5yrs when looking at flagship mirrorless, and anyone building cameras with sensors from Sony just got undercut by BMD’s RGBW. I expect to see some sort of answer in under two years, and it’ll probably come from Sony putting something new silicone in their own lineup first, but let’s be honest here.

 

I could upgrade from my (still excellent BTW) S1H to this new LUMIX, and get, what? A bit better AF, a bit more frame rate, and a pick-your-poison of either improved DR or improved readout depending on the mode. 
 

Or… I pay a bit more and get the Pyxis 12K. Or (and I’m betting on this option,) I wait ~80 weeks, and whaddayaknow?! BMD has either dropped the 12K’s price, or they come out with something new and people sell the 12K at a discount in response. There’s no way a BMD camera holds at launch price past 24 months, it simply never happens. If we’re after a top-tier sensor in a sensible body? Everything else is up against that. Unless you need AF, but if you need AF why haven’t you already bought either a Sony or a Canon?

 

Panasonic has a slim chance with an S1H successor, but IMO it can’t be a hybrid type body. People who like that kind of physical handling already have a figurative bagillion LUMIX bodies to pick from. One more would be the nail in the coffin.

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Panasonic has a slim chance with an S1H successor, but IMO it can’t be a hybrid type body. People who like that kind of physical handling already have a figurative bagillion LUMIX bodies to pick from. One more would be the nail in the coffin.

The S5iiH you mean? 🙈

But seriously, like all the rest, perfectly capable but somewhat dull 🥱

[eatstoomuchjam]

6 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Or… I pay a bit more and get the Pyxis 12K. Or (and I’m betting on this option,) I wait ~80 weeks, and whaddayaknow?! BMD has either dropped the 12K’s price, or they come out with something new and people sell the 12K at a discount in response. There’s no way a BMD camera holds at launch price past 24 months, it simply never happens. If we’re after a top-tier sensor in a sensible body? Everything else is up against that. Unless you need AF, but if you need AF why haven’t you already bought either a Sony or a Canon?

 

I'll look forward to Pyxis 12K bodies hitting the used market.  I'm a fan of the UC12K and would love a lighter b camera.

It's also worth note that even though it doesn't have it now, and I wouldn't buy a camera based on potential future capabilities, but I don't think that BMD has specifically said yet that there are no PDAF pixels in the 12K sensor and that it wouldn't be something that could be added in the future.  I think they're wise to beta their AF firmware on a single camera only for now to work out the kinks, but if they add usable AF to the 12K cameras, I think they know that they have a thing that could compel changes from other systems.

Heck, if AF comes to Pyxis, BMD might be the last great hope for L mount!