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Andrew Reid

The Canon fight back begins - with a box

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

What's wrong with bashing a company for making wrong moves and mistakes? In fact it's moral duty for us to inform filmmakers about the bad products especially when they are the most popular in the world for heritage reason. 

Bashing Canon for video right now is a good move, it makes people find better video products and presses Canon to make better video cameras. 

Canon in 2009 to 2012 were producing the best video quality under 5000$, and in 2 years, they went to being close to the last worst quality throughout their entire range. Their video situation ''now'' is disastrous and they should be bashed for it: 

1-1200D: 550D image with 720p res. and aweful moire

2-700D: 550D image with 720p res and aweful moire 

3-750/760D: closer to 1080p but still has some moire, worse than competiton 

4-70D: 550D image with 720p res. and aweful moire 

5-7D MKII: 2011 5DIII image, 720p res but without aliasing/moire 

6-5D MKIII: well, 5DIII image, 720p res. but without aliasing/moire

7-1Dx: 5DIII image, 720p res. but without aliasing/moire 

This IS a bad situation to be in. 

Does it mean these cameras can't be used to make creative results? of course they can.

It merely means there are better video quality options out there, and Canon must step up to the  otherwise consumer should be warned about it. 

Do you know why do we care about Canon having bad video quality? why not just forget it and shoot on other cameras? 

It's because their cameras have advantages not available on these other cameras, because we know for a fact they CAN give us our dream image (1DC and 5D raw) with our dream features (ML) but not willing to for marketing reasons. It's because we like their combination of stills, ergonomics, speed, colour rendition, C-log gamma, lens line up, Dual pixel AF, lowlight performance, build quality, size, reliability, etc 

It's baffling why they can't just make a 1Dc-like 4K window with C-Log in a 5D body and price with a few ML features like peaking/zebras. It's done, they are on the top chain of video again. 

I say keep lets keep on bashing Canon until they fix it. 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Yet you said you won't shoot on that once you have the new Sony... Which is why I find this article ironic.

You are the marketers wet dream... Chasing paper specs.

As does a lot of the other "internets". You will also find those who constantly bash manufacturers are more tech geeks rather than actual filmmakers. 

 

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They solved this problem the right way years ago. Building actual video cameras for video use and then improving on them in the latest models.   
If you can't afford them, it's because you're not working hard enough to be the kind of person that is using them.
 

​Oh please. Canon deserve to be bashed for their laziness towards the pro-sumer/ indie pro video demographic. Get over it.

Even if I could afford a C300 Mark II, I don't think I would buy it. Out of principle, the price/ performance ratio does not even come close to what I think is acceptable in 2015, especially without HFR. And that's not just me. It's a lot of other people too.

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Great Article. I kind of agree that Canon doesn't care anymore, and that except a few cosmetic changes (except the dual pixel thing), they don't even pretend to care. 

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Brutally poetic and funny, Andrew! I'm not sure my brain can take this heady mix of useful information and art! I know your passion and strong views aren't to everyone's taste, but I love this unique place you have created more each week. Thanks =)

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You are the marketers wet dream... Chasing paper specs.

​If I was chasing paper specs I wouldn't be shooting 8bit 1.3x crop on my 1D C with no EVF and not even peaking!!

Wouldn't I have got a Sony FS7 instead? After all, same price range.

Have fun answering that one...

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What's wrong with bashing a company for making wrong moves and mistakes? In fact it's moral duty for us to inform filmmakers about the bad products especially when they are the most popular in the world for heritage reason. 

Real filmmakers test any cameras they're interested in, and choose the right tool for the job. That includes lensing etc.

If you're the kind of 'filmmaker' that gets taken in by a new box... Well you're probably not the kind of 'filmmaker' that's going to care anyway.

​Oh please. Canon deserve to be bashed for their laziness towards the pro-sumer/ indie pro video demographic. Get over it.

Even if I could afford a C300 Mark II, I don't think I would buy it. Out of principle, the price/ performance ratio does not even come close to what I think is acceptable in 2015, especially without HFR. And that's not just me. It's a lot of other people too.

​They deserve to be bashed for being smart about their product line? They deserve to be bashed because the 'pro-sumer/indie pro video demo' (who make up a tiny percentage of their sales to begin with) are happier shooting with other cameras...?

You're right about the C300 though. The C(x)00 series has always been over-priced for what you get.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Real filmmakers test any cameras they're interested in, and choose the right tool for the job. That includes lensing etc.

If you're the kind of 'filmmaker' that gets taken in by a new box... Well you're probably not the kind of 'filmmaker' that's going to care anyway.

 

What you're basically saying is not being a gadget expert in how cameras compare disqualifies you from being a real worthy filmmakers. in fact it's almost always the other way around :rolleyes:

​Real? There is an enormous amount of ''real'' talented filmmakers - who some of them can mature to become hollywood directors - who don't have EOSHD's camera knowledge and need direction on what gear to get, they don't have the time or budget to ''any cameras they're interested in''. 

I just find this argument really strange.

It's a good thing to tell people what products are good and what products are bad. It helps people make correct choices and pushes bad products to become better, isn't that just common sense? 

 

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What you're basically saying is not being a gadget expert in how cameras compare disqualifies you from being a real worthy filmmakers. in fact it's almost always the other way around :rolleyes:

Is it? I can tell you that the Cinematographers shooting Hollywood films aren't sitting around looking at specs comparisons between the GH4, and the A7s. 

Cinematographers test the cameras they want to test against each other and pick the one that's going to work the best. They're not basing their choice of camera off of a camera box, or an internet article or forum.

​Real? There is an enormous amount of ''real'' talented filmmakers - who some of them can mature to become hollywood directors - who don't have EOSHD's camera knowledge and need direction on what gear to get, they don't have the time or budget to ''any cameras they're interested in''. 
 

​If they really have a talent for film, the fact that they choose what people here think is the 'wrong' camera should not make a difference as to how successful they are. Have you forgotten about the films that were shot on 7Ds and 5Ds that were released in cinemas? Sure, there may be better cameras out there - but if all they're using it for is to learn then why do they need the best camera out there?

 

It's a good thing to tell people what products are good and what products are bad. It helps people make correct choices and pushes bad products to become better, isn't that just common sense? 

 

Yes - but this box is not marketed towards those who might call themselves semi-pro or indie or whatever is the word of the day. It's marketed towards people who think it would be cool to shoot some video, or who might be interested in video, or who just wants to shoot some holiday/birthday videos. For them, a 750D is great/fine. It's pretty easy to use and the workflow is pretty easy. It's easy to get an okay image out of the box.

Tell your amateur to go and buy an A7s and shoot in Slog and over-expose by 2 stops to get the best image. Please let me know if what they come back with is any good (it won't be). It may be better value for the price compared to someone who's looking at a 5D as their first camera ('isn't that the one that's really popular??') but is this first timer, this amateur, this person who's interested in a few happy snaps and a bit of video of the family, really going to get all that much out of an A7s or Gh4 or whatever over something else?

If someone's really interested in filmmaking, I'd rather they pick this exact box off the shelf, put the rig together, go out there and just shoot as much as they can. They'll learn heaps. I'd tell them to study light, and the way light interacts within the world etc.

The worst thing someone can do is spend all their time talking about what may or may not be better, at the expense of actually doing anything - which is I think what a lot of people on internet forums do. A lot of theoretic talking, and not a lot of actual shooting.​

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If they really have a talent for film, the fact that they choose what people here think is the 'wrong' camera should not make a difference as to how successful they are...

Please man, do not take the article literally!! It is SATIRE!

Yes - but this box is not marketed towards those who might call themselves semi-pro or indie or whatever is the word of the day. It's marketed towards people who think it would be cool to shoot some video, or who might be interested in video, or who just wants to shoot some holiday/birthday videos. For them, a 750D is great/fine. It's pretty easy to use and the workflow is pretty easy. It's easy to get an okay image out of the box.

I am amazed how many people switch off their sense of humour and irony when reading text on a computer screen, taking it all as literal and explicit. Maybe it is the lack of vocal tone infliction or something else.

If someone's really interested in filmmaking, I'd rather they pick this exact box off the shelf, put the rig together, go out there and just shoot as much as they can. They'll learn heaps. I'd tell them to study light, and the way light interacts within the world etc.

​If someone is really interested in filmmaking, they would not spend $1649 on a cardboard box con trick. They would have to be really stupid to do that.

They would buy the separate pieces cheaper on eBay and spend the rest on the ACTUAL FILM.

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Is it? I can tell you that the Cinematographers shooting Hollywood films aren't sitting around looking at specs comparisons between the GH4, and the A7s. 

 

​Well obviously they aren't- because they have been through that stage at the beginning of their careers and have access to cameras like ARRI's, RED, etc. But many future Hollywood cinematographers are comparing specs between the GH4 and A7s. 

Yes - but this box is not marketed towards those who might call themselves semi-pro or indie or whatever is the word of the day. It's marketed towards people who think it would be cool to shoot some video, or who might be interested in video, or who just wants to shoot some holiday/birthday videos. For them, a 750D is great/fine. It's pretty easy to use and the workflow is pretty easy. It's easy to get an okay image out of the box.

 

That demographic of "people who think it would be cool to shoot some video" are getting pretty badly ripped off. This package wouldn't be so bash-worthy if it was priced, say, 30 to 40% lower. Some here are saying "let Canon charge and market their products themselves however they want". Sure, they will- let us also laugh and bash their marketing however we want, too!

 

If someone's really interested in filmmaking, I'd rather they pick this exact box off the shelf, put the rig together, go out there and just shoot as much as they can. They'll learn heaps. I'd tell them to study light, and the way light interacts within the world etc.

What would be far better is if they would buy this exact kit but separately- as already mentioned by Andrew. That way they could save a few hundred dollars for lighting, no?

 

The worst thing someone can do is spend all their time talking about what may or may not be better, at the expense of actually doing anything - which is I think what a lot of people on internet forums do. A lot of theoretic talking, and not a lot of actual shooting.​

This is the only thing that I agree with you on. I am trying recently to shoot more and read/ post less. Same goes for music recording. It is plain old laziness combined with actually being busy with other work. But fair point as I believe if people spent half of their forum time shooting and editing there would be a lot more interesting content out there indeed...

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​If I was chasing paper specs I wouldn't be shooting 8bit 1.3x crop on my 1D C with no EVF and not even peaking!!

Wouldn't I have got a Sony FS7 instead? After all, same price range.

Have fun answering that one...

​Quite easy really.. and two fold, 1) You openly admit you don't like big, prosumer cameras and prefer the stealth and freedom of smaller form factor cams... 2) The big paper spec you were chasing, at the time of purchase, was 4K, so you were ok to downgrade the other specs.

I'm only taking the piss about your gear lust anyway (satirically, of course). It is in your interests to chase the best bang for buck and report on it.

I'll always laugh at the Canon agenda, but understand why you do it and do actually like and respect this place, for the most part.

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Please man, do not take the article literally!! It is SATIRE!

I get it - it just seems overly Canon-bashing to me. I have nothing for or against Canon, but they're also not the only company to try and bolster sales with certain marketing ploys.

 

​If someone is really interested in filmmaking, they would not spend $1649 on a cardboard box con trick. They would have to be really stupid to do that.

​This I agree with! Though, as was mentioned, I see this being more a Father or relative buying it as a gift, moreso than someone buying it specifically for themselves.

Hey - if it works, it works! And if it sparks a passion in someone, all the better.

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Great work, Andrew. I get the sentiment, it's the same feelings I have when folks in my film class insist on buying Canon cameras (550Ds, 70Ds even) and I'm trying to push Sony and Panasonic. It's not that I have anything against Canon (I have a 5D Mk.3) but they are just so ridiculously overpriced and underspec'd and I want their footage to look good.

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​Well obviously they aren't- because they have been through that stage at the beginning of their careers and have access to cameras like ARRI's, RED, etc. But many future Hollywood cinematographers are comparing specs between the GH4 and A7s.

​Really? How do you know?

FYI Rodney Charters (24, Dallas) is proud owner of my GH4 Shooter's Guide. He did his research like many other DPs did.

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​Quite easy really.. and two fold, 1) You openly admit you don't like big, prosumer cameras and prefer the stealth and freedom of smaller form factor cams... 2) The big paper spec you were chasing, at the time of purchase, was 4K, so you were ok to downgrade the other specs.

I'm only taking the piss about your gear lust anyway (satirically, of course). It is in your interests to chase the best bang for buck and report on it.

I'll always laugh at the Canon agenda, but understand why you do it and do actually like and respect this place, for the most part.

​How long have you suffered from Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)?

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​How long have you suffered from Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)?

I wonder how many people suffer from Obsessive Compulsive Canon Dissaproval Disorder (OCCDD)? 

Symptoms include: not getting over the fact Canon DSLR video is a bag of crap and being unable to get over it. 

Medication includes: Using a Sony mirrorless that isn't as good at color than Canon but has more fabulous features, or becoming bankrupt after purchasing a C line camera and wishing you got an FS7 with lenses instead. 

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