Emanuel Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Jedi Master said: Just because something has been invented doesn't mean it can't be improved. Like the wheel. This is probably what it looked like right after it was invented. Can you imagine what today would be like if the wheel was never improved? We'd all be driving horse carts with wheels sliced from the cross-section of a tree trunk. Funny enough : ) But as much as lies with perception and what this is and means (no less important at all and please don't come to say you haven't understood all these words one after the other), it is all about the concept not the form to be adopted in different stages of the evolution of the progress itself. The point, of you exclusive geeks (I am one but beyond to only be one : ) is the way you diminish the importance of the concepts... :- ) And you then come to me to talk about science?? : D Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Jedi Master said: Looks fine to me. This may be one of two downvotes I have ever done. I hate doing it but if you think that looks fine, then this discussion should just be closed because there is literally nothing more to discuss... or are you really just trolling? Emanuel and Walter H 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Master Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Fatalfury said: But does it look better? Yes. To me it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Master Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, mercer said: This may be one of two downvotes I have ever done. I hate doing it but if you think that looks fine, then this discussion should just be closed because there is literally nothing more to discuss... or are you really just trolling? Why would you think I’m trolling? I watched the video and it did look better to me. So that’s your definition of trolling? When someone’s subjective opinion on what looks better to them differs from what looks best to you? mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Jedi Master said: Why would you think I’m trolling? I watched the video and it did look better to me. So that’s your definition of trolling? When someone’s subjective opinion on what looks better to them differs from what looks best to you? Not at all, that's why I suggested that if you think the one version looks better than the 24p version, then there's nothing more to discuss. Then I asked OR are you trolling. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am entitled to react towards it how I want. And again, if you believe the 24p version looks worse, then there is no reason to continue this discussion. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 The problem, Glenn aka mercer here, is the absence of notion and understanding what time is for the matter of motion pictures. They never read a few mandatory ones before to even dare to pronounce anything subject-related (and I wouldn't even mention some other contribution already cited earlier here) but they feel themselves entitled to talk about things some other ones devoted their entire life to. "The photographer proceeds, via the intermediary of the lens, to a point where he literally takes a luminous imprint, a cast... [But] the cinema realizes the paradox of moulding itself on the time of the object and of taking the imprint of its duration as well." “Reality is not art, but a realist art is one that can create an integral aesthetic of reality.” "Photography does not create eternity, as art does; it embalms time, rescuing it simply from its proper corruption." ~ André Bazin Here we have a short description on his life and work as well some other thirty quotes/reflexions about this medium as essential food for thought: https://www.bookey.app/quote-author/andre-bazin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalfury Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Jedi Master said: Yes. To me it does. To each their own. But better how, smoother? Wouldn't 120p+ be even better then? 60p is still quite limited (as evidenced by pc gaming). I for one think it looks like ass but not as horrid as Hobbit, CGI looks especially dogshit in hfr. Luckily the industry, most users here and I seem to agree. And luckily for you, modern tv's allow turn on motion smoothing for every content, think it looks no better or worse than natively shot 60p. Both can't escape that weightless jello hope I'm not having a stroke look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Master Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 22 minutes ago, Fatalfury said: To each their own. But better how, smoother? That's something I can't explain--it just looks better to me. I also can't explain why I like chocolate ice cream more than vanilla, or why purple is my favorite color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 i extensively use 650d/700d ml raw crop mode now crop mood 1920x1080p 1x1 24p 16 by 9 14 bit color depth 14 bit lg92 lossless compression for events, news, landscape, street/city scape. since i am in the event, i know the situation, and i watch the footage later, i really don't see the larger than life effects. the ml raw footage itself is amazing for its image quality, especially in the color department. but it is still a small sensor, about 50 mm2 in this mode. on the other hand, 5d3 ml raw in 3.5k mode and in 5.7k mode and in uhd mode, aspect ratio 2.4, 24p, with a large aperture lens at f1.4 to f2, rack focus if you can, then it is much more cinematic. i think large sensor size, lens at f1.4, aspect ratio 2.4, rack focusing, etc, have much stronger effects than 24p itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 anyone here think dvx100 at 24p is more cinematic than c300 mk 1 at 29.97p using an L 50mm f1.2 at f1.2, or c100 mkii at 59.97 using a ZE 85 f1.4 at f1.4? i doubt so. if so, i think i should shut up on this 24p topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, zlfan said: anyone here think dvx100 at 24p is more cinematic than c300 mk 1 at 29.97p using an L 50mm f1.2 at f1.2, or c100 mkii at 59.97 using a ZE 85 f1.4 at f1.4? i doubt so. if so, i think i should shut up on this 24p topic. Yes. 30p and 60p completely ruin the viewing experience for me - like if someone peed in my drink. It doesn't matter what else the drink had in it, I'm not drinking it with pee in it. You're not convincing anyone to like what you like, we're not convincing you to like what we like. Time to stop posting. Emanuel, Walter H and FHDcrew 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, kye said: Yes. 30p and 60p completely ruin the viewing experience for me - like if someone peed in my drink. It doesn't matter what else the drink had in it, I'm not drinking it with pee in it. You're not convincing anyone to like what you like, we're not convincing you to like what we like. Time to stop posting. If so, you are right. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter H Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 It is so. Fatalfury 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPNS Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 On 12/18/2023 at 2:34 PM, Fatalfury said: Yada, yada, yada - 24 fps looks great and that's why it's still 99.9999% of filmmakers choice even if they aren't technologically limited to use it. At the same time we are still limited to 50/60p, should higher frame rate is needed, but... ....look at this (the effect is especially noticeable when viewed full screen): For comparison, same director. Isn't it obvious? Here is Gemini Man in 24p if anyone would like to compare: _ Yet interestingly, Gemini Man was shot in 120p. Would really love to see for curiosity sake but it's not available anywhere in 120fps. Is there even a video player that can play 120fps in real time, available at all in 2023? goddamn it looks bad in 24fps, but it looks truly dogshit in 60 Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 it is interesting to see that one of my recent episodes on youtube got a vote. guess which one? oooooyeh, gp 12 5k 60p, not r1mx 24p, not f5 60p and 24p, not c300 24p, not af100 60p. almost forgot the eol "lol". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalfury Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, PPNS said: goddamn it looks bad in 24fps, but it looks truly dogshit in 60 Yeah, it doesn't look right at 24fps, probably converted from 120p to 24p has something to do with as the shutter speed isn't 180 degrees. 58 minutes ago, zlfan said: it is interesting to see that one of my recent episodes on youtube got a vote. guess which one? oooooyeh, gp 12 5k 60p, not r1mx 24p, not f5 60p and 24p, not c300 24p, not af100 60p. almost forgot the eol "lol". ? Your 60p video got a like on youtube and that's why hfr is better than 24p? Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 20, 2023 Author Share Posted December 20, 2023 actually, i am a firm 24p converter now. why, suddenly i have 5 more cinema cams at my hands, ipad, mac book air, ipod touch, phone, and my desktop monitor's web cam. oh, my em5 has a 24p i think? although only use it for photo so long. they will blow c300 30p out of water for sure. 24p is good for all the human kind too, because each one has a phone is a cinematographer now. probably more than one billion dps? good for everyone, why not. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted December 20, 2023 Author Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Fatalfury said: Yeah, it doesn't look right at 24fps, probably converted from 120p to 24p has something to do with as the shutter speed isn't 180 degrees. ? Your 60p video got a like on youtube and that's why hfr is better than 24p? i know i am a shitty shooter shooting shitty scenes over and over again. because all are shits, so this shitty factor is eliminated. now, a shit lover likes a specific shit out of all these shits. this is interesting. why? lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 On 12/18/2023 at 9:36 PM, kye said: Yes. 30p and 60p completely ruin the viewing experience for me - like if someone peed in my drink. It doesn't matter what else the drink had in it, I'm not drinking it with pee in it. You're not convincing anyone to like what you like, we're not convincing you to like what we like. Time to stop posting. At the college I attend the broadcast director demands any promos/commercials for student media be filmed and delivered at 1280x720 at 60p. I hate filming in 60p and am less inspired by my visuals because 24p looks so much better to my eye. 60p should only be for sports. 30p for news. But 24p is great for commercials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, FHDcrew said: At the college I attend the broadcast director demands any promos/commercials for student media be filmed and delivered at 1280x720 at 60p. I hate filming in 60p and am less inspired by my visuals because 24p looks so much better to my eye. 60p should only be for sports. 30p for news. But 24p is great for commercials. Shoot 60p, edit on a 24p timeline, colour grade on a 24p timeline, do sound design on a 24p timeline, do VFX / titles on a 24p timeline, then when you're finished, copy all the objects on the timeline to a 60p timeline and hit export! Despite most education professionals being genuine and having the best of intentions, much of the learning happens despite the educational system rather than because of it. Follow your own path by default, submit to their nonsense where needed, save your energy for the work, and then when you graduate go off and have the best life 🙂 PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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