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Canon C300 Mark II - $15,999 4K camera

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Did you see the side by sides? Not sure how this could be considered blown out really. Seems to me that the C300II holds slightly more in the shadows, whereas the Alexa holds slightly more in the highlights...

Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 17.07.12.png

Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 17.13.09.png

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

The Alexa shows a slight edge in detail retention in the highlights, looking at +4 examples, the alexa advantage is 1/2-ish stop, and they have the same smooth roll-ff aesthetic, while the C300 has quite a marked advantage in the shadows/lowlight with at least 2 stops, Alexa is noisy. C300II seems to have more or at least similar DR to the much, much more expensive alexa and weapon.

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The Alexa shows a slight edge in detail retention in the highlights, looking at +4 examples, the alexa advantage is 1/2-ish stop, and they have the same smooth roll-ff aesthetic, while the C300 has quite a marked advantage in the shadows/lowlight with at least 2 stops, Alexa is noisy. C300II seems to have more or at least similar DR to the much, much more expensive alexa and weapon.

It's clear from the test the Alexa has more than a 'slight edge' in the highlights. The highlight retention of the C300 from this test looks like the F55. Is it good? Yeah not bad. Is it like the Alexa? No. The Alexa does not even start to blow at +5! Look at the shirt of the guy in the frame. 

The C300MKII has been tested to show noise that is not as nice as the Alexa. The Alexa has a much more natural monochromatic noise that is grain like, and does not exibit the noise as early as the C300MKII.

I think once more tests come out it will be clear that Canon were not accurate with their 15 stop claim. Still, it's a decent enough camera that i'm sure will make some great pictures, like the C300 did for Blue Ruin. Will it replace the Alexa for Cinematographers who can choose? No.

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Did you see the side by sides? Not sure how this could be considered blown out really. Seems to me that the C300II holds slightly more in the shadows, whereas the Alexa holds slightly more in the highlights...

 This  is not a  good  test, they  had mess up  with FS7  and A7S

U  can clearly see FS7 and A7S both shooted without apply SLOG

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It is not a good test.

Creating a fair and technically perfect DR test is a nightmare.

Anyone using the above test or the Cinema5D test to categorically praise/bash the C300II clearly has bias issues.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I think it's a great, accurate visual test, 

It's clear from the test the Alexa has more than a 'slight edge' in the highlights. 

Look at +4 and you'll see it's a less than a stop difference. Plus it's still unknown how much information can be brought down in post, this is key. Remember DR distribution is different, for example the alexa might have an extra highlight stop and a lower shadow stop, therefore the C300II can be lowered one stop to get identical DR, if the C300 has extra two shadow stops, then it can be lowered 2 stops and get 1+ stop of DR over alexa (15), which is what I am seeing (alng with Geoff boyle & bloom)

 Distribution is different.

One key element the test doesn't show is how the image looks brought down in terms on colours and detail, without this it's just a roll-off comparison, which alexa and c300 excel at.

Wait for an accurate DR test side by side before making conclusions. Pretty premature. All what we're seeing might very well be wrong. It's not out and tested yet.

The C300MKII has been tested to show noise that is not as nice as the Alexa. 

Pre-productioon C300 units has horizontal FPN and chroma noise that will not exist in the final version. 

Will it replace the Alexa for Cinematographers who can choose? No.

I disagree, this is just based on the alexa name tag stuck in our head as the film camera, but others have caught up and that will change. I think the varicam and C300II will perfectly replace Alexa for many shoots as better cameras,  according to the image. As filmic as Alexa in highlights with similar DR, similar colour science, better form factor, smaller, better audio, revolutionary AF, 10 stop ND without contamination, higher resolution, much, much, much better lowlight performance, extremely lower production cost, the Varicam and C300 can easily replace Alexa and compete for the feature crowd for many reasons. 

People can seem to get their head around the C300II being a Weapon/Alexa/Varicam rival just for the name tag of Canon broadcast C300, it changed to a film emulating camera and abandoned the mpeg-2 broadcast feature actually showing where they're aiming it. 

We'll see with legitimate testing, but so far I am pretty optimistic for the C300II (and Varicam, gorgeous)

 

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I think it's a great, accurate visual test, 

Look at +4 and you'll see it's a less than a stop difference. Plus it's still unknown how much information can be brought down in post, this is key. Remember DR distribution is different, for example the alexa might have an extra highlight stop and a lower shadow stop, therefore the C300II can be lowered one stop to get identical DR, if the C300 has extra two shadow stops, then it can be lowered 2 stops and get 1+ stop of DR over alexa (15), which is what I am seeing (alng with Geoff boyle & bloom)

 Distribution is different.

One key element the test doesn't show is how the image looks brought down in terms on colours and detail, without this it's just a roll-off comparison, which alexa and c300 excel at.

Wait for an accurate DR test side by side before making conclusions. Pretty premature. All what we're seeing might very well be wrong. It's not out and tested yet.

Pre-productioon C300 units has horizontal FPN and chroma noise that will not exist in the final version. 

I disagree, this is just based on the alexa name tag stuck in our head as the film camera, but others have caught up and that will change. I think the varicam and C300II will perfectly replace Alexa for many shoots as better cameras,  according to the image. As filmic as Alexa in highlights with similar DR, similar colour science, better form factor, smaller, better audio, revolutionary AF, 10 stop ND without contamination, higher resolution, much, much, much better lowlight performance, extremely lower production cost, the Varicam and C300 can easily replace Alexa and compete for the feature crowd for many reasons. 

People can seem to get their head around the C300II being a Weapon/Alexa/Varicam rival just for the name tag of Canon broadcast C300, it changed to a film emulating camera and abandoned the mpeg-2 broadcast feature actually showing where they're aiming it. 

We'll see with legitimate testing, but so far I am pretty optimistic for the C300II (and Varicam, gorgeous)

 

I don't see the same colour as Alexa, higher resolution is of little benefit compared to the open gate mode the Alexa already gives, and the dynamic range is not as good, particularly in the highlights which do not roll off like the Alexa.  Which professional film uses AF, hardly worth putting that in there as a bonus. The c300MKII from everything i've seen is not as pleasing as the Alexa. I think more tests and shooting will make this clear. To each their own i guess. Anyway, i look forward to seeing more and using the C300MKII, but i won't be choosing it over Alexa anytime soon whenever i have the choice, not least for the organic image the Alexa gives.

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Well there is a huge price difference between the Alexa and the C300II so you would hope that it gives one stop more in the highlights 8)

 

It's clear from the test the Alexa has more than a 'slight edge' in the highlights. 

It's hard to say.

Imagine that one camera "blows out" at +5. That means everything is completely white. And the other camera blows out at +4.

That means if you look at an image that's been exposed to +4.5 the A camera will look clearly better.

But that is still only a "slight edge" as in normal exposures (+0) the difference will be negligible as long as the roll-off is good. Take a look at the +0 exposures. See a difference between those cameras?

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Did you see the side by sides? Not sure how this could be considered blown out really. Seems to me that the C300II holds slightly more in the shadows, whereas the Alexa holds slightly more in the highlights...

Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 17.07.12.png

Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 17.13.09.png

the ursa seems to be doing really badly there! Is it a worse sensor than in tthe pocket?

 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

the ursa seems to be doing really badly there! Is it a worse sensor than in tthe pocket?

It's the dreaded Global shutter 4K Production camera sensor. Yes the pocket outperforms it in DR and at least 2-3+ extra lowlight stops. 

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I think it's a great, accurate visual test, 

Look at +4 and you'll see it's a less than a stop difference. Plus it's still unknown how much information can be brought down in post, this is key. Remember DR distribution is different, for example the alexa might have an extra highlight stop and a lower shadow stop, therefore the C300II can be lowered one stop to get identical DR, if the C300 has extra two shadow stops, then it can be lowered 2 stops and get 1+ stop of DR over alexa (15), which is what I am seeing (alng with Geoff boyle & bloom)

 Distribution is different.

One key element the test doesn't show is how the image looks brought down in terms on colours and detail, without this it's just a roll-off comparison, which alexa and c300 excel at.

Wait for an accurate DR test side by side before making conclusions. Pretty premature. All what we're seeing might very well be wrong. It's not out and tested yet.

Pre-productioon C300 units has horizontal FPN and chroma noise that will not exist in the final version. 

I disagree, this is just based on the alexa name tag stuck in our head as the film camera, but others have caught up and that will change. I think the varicam and C300II will perfectly replace Alexa for many shoots as better cameras,  according to the image. As filmic as Alexa in highlights with similar DR, similar colour science, better form factor, smaller, better audio, revolutionary AF, 10 stop ND without contamination, higher resolution, much, much, much better lowlight performance, extremely lower production cost, the Varicam and C300 can easily replace Alexa and compete for the feature crowd for many reasons. 

People can seem to get their head around the C300II being a Weapon/Alexa/Varicam rival just for the name tag of Canon broadcast C300, it changed to a film emulating camera and abandoned the mpeg-2 broadcast feature actually showing where they're aiming it. 

We'll see with legitimate testing, but so far I am pretty optimistic for the C300II (and Varicam, gorgeous)

 

You seem to be having a discussion about dynamic range with someone who mis-understands it. 

The alexa has moved on as well and improved over the years. The 65 and the Amira are both different cameras delivering to different segments. For feature  production the Alexa kits out better, for run and gun and small shoots the c300 is king.  It is much more the sensor specs that get a camera to set. 

Workflow is the biggest c300m2 issue right now. If you don't record canon raw externally you don't get 15 stops. 

(though looking tests that show 12 stops look like they were done on broken cameras.)

 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

 

Workflow is the biggest c300m2 issue right now. If you don't record canon raw externally you don't get 15 stops. 

You actually get the full range recording internal C-Log 2. 

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whatsup with this

sidebyside_backlight_sm.jpg

the cool side of this model's face clearly looks profoundly different camera to camera. more here

what do you guys think about this? my first reaction to this comparison was shock

one of these is farrrr more naturalistic imo, and one of these actually makes this young lady look a little bit like an alien...

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Yea, hardly ideal for pixel peeping, and that is the C500, not the C300 mk II.... and Shane says he preferred the Canon skintones anyway. Watch the actual footage, both look really good.

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Holy eff those .jpg files are compressed like crazy on Hurlbuts site.

lol agree. but despite that theres a huge difference in color in the example i posted as well as in several other spots of comparison in shanes video. not pixel peeping here, just making a general point about how different the color science is

Yea, hardly ideal for pixel peeping, and that is the C500, not the C300 mk II.... and Shane says he preferred the Canon skintones anyway. Watch the actual footage, both look really good.

i know its the c500, which is similar in terms of color to the c300ii, vs the alexa, which looks totally different; again, just making an abstract point about how these cameras see color relative to each other, arri vs canon. ive watched that footage many times

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