The dilema of being a Nikon Z6 shooter in 2023

[FHDcrew]

I get quite bored talking about cameras, as the current lot of mirrorless cameras are all phenominal, with great dynamic range, autofocus, color, etc.  Pretty much every major problem we have complained about in the past has been solved.  For me personally I find it more beneficial to focus on technique, improving on lighting, color grading, storytelling, etc.  I also find other gear investments to benefit me more, such as lens upgrades or grip gear.  As many of you know, I have been using the Nikon Z6 as my primary camera, and this has been the case since the end of 2020 when I bought it.  At the time of purchase, I already owned a Ninja V, so buying a used Z6 for under $1300 was a no-brainer.  This gave me an affordable way to achieve 10-bit LOG while shooting with a full-frame sensor, all the while having perfectly usable phase-detect autofocus.  For the most part I was and still am very happy with this camera although I did become annoyed at the size, form-factor and setup-time implications that come into play when using the Ninja V.  To solve some of these issues, I bought an Atomos Ninja Star, and I figured out a way to output oversampled 10-bit 1080p to the Ninja Star, using NLOG of course.  For my work, this 1080p image is all of the IQ I need.  Detail is sufficient, DR is great, and grading flexibility is superb.  I did grow slightly tired of using the Ninja Star even; it's great but sometimes I still want to just record internally to the memory card.  The Ninja Star still involves setup time and adds a small bit of clunkiness to the setup.  The Ninja Star also uses Micro HDMI so I don't always want to depend on it.  I have recently been using the internal 8-bit 4k on my Nikon Z6, and have been experimenting with internal picture profiles and grading techniques.  I am beginning to get results I am pleased with out of the internal image, and I feel it is going to be completely usable for my work going forward.  Can I push it as much as 10-bit LOG?  Of course not.  Will it look as good in high-contrast scenes?  No.  But it can totally work, especially when I am in control of lighting, which is often the case.  The plan is to shoot internally often, and when I need more, I have two great external recorders I can use.

 

My dilema is not so much "I need a new camera because what I currently have is not working for me."  Indeed, the Z6 does everything I need.  When I want a small setup, the 8-bit is totally workable.  If I need more, the Ninja Star can be used.  For maximum IQ and solid monitoring options, my Ninja V has me covered.  What my actual dilema is this: how long should I hang on to this camera, and should I continue to invest in the Nikon Z system?  I plan to eventually move on from the Z6, as cameras have improved since then, and we have affordable large-sensored cameras that offer 10-bit LOG internally.  The Panasonic S5 II, Sony FX30, Canon R8, R6 II, all are options i have thought of down the line. 

 

Where I am at right now: upgrading my camera is not the smartest investment right now.  It is doable down the line, but right now I need to invest in more glass, and if I have the budget possibly some more grip gear to improve my lighting skills.  I could easily purchase some affordable, used F-mount glass that will work with my Z6.  This will be an easy route, as I already own the FTZ adapter.  With that being said, it seems pointless to invest in F-mount glass if I will eventually switch systems.

 

This is very long-winded, so let me get down to my question.  Which of these two options would you say is the best route?

 

Option 1 -- Keep my Nikon Z6 and grow my lens collection.  My next Nikon body will then most likely be either the Z8, or if it ever releases, the Z6 III.  This upgrade would not take place until at least a year from now.

 

Option 2 -- Sell my FTZ adapter and adapt EF or E mount.  I will take a small loss by selling my FTZ adapter and Tamron 45mm 1.8 lens, but this allows me to invest in glass that I can use with other systems down the line.

 

Option 3 -- Sell my Z6 sooner, sell the FTZ adapter, and switch systems entirely, either to Sony, Canon or Panasonic, with the most likely candidates being either the Panasonic S5 II, a used R6 OG, or the Sony FX30.

[herein2020]

I see a lot of these types of posts and really think only you can answer those questions, each of us has our own shooting style, also each of our responses will come from a position of bias; either conscious (deliberately trying to sway you to adopt their chosen ecosystem) or subconscious (their shooting style matches their gear so well that they really want you to see just how great your experience will be with their setup). 

So with that long winded caveat out of the way, I personally am now a 100% Canon shooter so that you will know that everything that comes after that statement will probably have a bit of Canon bias in it because yes, my current Canon setup (C70, R5, R7) fixes every problem I had with every previous setup and happens to fit my particular requirements perfectly.

Option 1 - Based on my limited knowledge of Nikon, I would take the same route I took when I was shooting with the Panasonic S5....there's simply no way I would invest in more glass, with the S5 I went with an EF adapter which let me switch to Canon far cheaper than if I had gone all in on L mount glass.

Option 2 - If you only have a single lens right now, now is the perfect time to decide once and for all what ecosystem you are moving to, if you truly believe you will change ecosystems in the near future that will determine what adapter and lens ecosystem you move to. If you are going Canon then obviously EF or Sony then E mount. The one problem with the EF route is that you will be buying older EF glass and if you move to Canon then you will be stuck with all of that EF glass; not a bad situation to be in since EF glass is way cheaper than RF and with EF glass and an RF mount camera you have access to the excellent Viltrox vND filter, but its just something to keep in mind.  I personally went with this option and all I had to do was buy the RF to EF adapter to start using my EF glass on my R bodies.

Option 3 - Once again only you know your financial situation, how badly you want a new ecosystem, etc. As a Canon shooter though, there is no way I could recommend the R6 due to its continued overheating problems. The R7 or R6II is the far better choice right now. The S5 II would be a hard one since it has literally everything but the kitchen sink; but you would either be buying into what I consider the dead L mount "alliance" or once again need to stick with non native EF adapters and EF glass you also wouldn't have access to the vND EF to RF adapter which is somewhat game changing for event shooters like myself.  Sony I know nothing about but if you are into photography at all then the A7IV is probably a better choice than the FX30.

[kye]

8 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

I get quite bored talking about cameras, as the current lot of mirrorless cameras are all phenominal, with great dynamic range, autofocus, color, etc.  Pretty much every major problem we have complained about in the past has been solved.  For me personally I find it more beneficial to focus on technique, improving on lighting, color grading, storytelling, etc.  I also find other gear investments to benefit me more, such as lens upgrades or grip gear.  As many of you know, I have been using the Nikon Z6 as my primary camera, and this has been the case since the end of 2020 when I bought it.  At the time of purchase, I already owned a Ninja V, so buying a used Z6 for under $1300 was a no-brainer.  This gave me an affordable way to achieve 10-bit LOG while shooting with a full-frame sensor, all the while having perfectly usable phase-detect autofocus.  For the most part I was and still am very happy with this camera although I did become annoyed at the size, form-factor and setup-time implications that come into play when using the Ninja V.  To solve some of these issues, I bought an Atomos Ninja Star, and I figured out a way to output oversampled 10-bit 1080p to the Ninja Star, using NLOG of course.  For my work, this 1080p image is all of the IQ I need.  Detail is sufficient, DR is great, and grading flexibility is superb.  I did grow slightly tired of using the Ninja Star even; it's great but sometimes I still want to just record internally to the memory card.  The Ninja Star still involves setup time and adds a small bit of clunkiness to the setup.  The Ninja Star also uses Micro HDMI so I don't always want to depend on it.  I have recently been using the internal 8-bit 4k on my Nikon Z6, and have been experimenting with internal picture profiles and grading techniques.  I am beginning to get results I am pleased with out of the internal image, and I feel it is going to be completely usable for my work going forward.  Can I push it as much as 10-bit LOG?  Of course not.  Will it look as good in high-contrast scenes?  No.  But it can totally work, especially when I am in control of lighting, which is often the case.  The plan is to shoot internally often, and when I need more, I have two great external recorders I can use.

 

My dilema is not so much "I need a new camera because what I currently have is not working for me."  Indeed, the Z6 does everything I need.  When I want a small setup, the 8-bit is totally workable.  If I need more, the Ninja Star can be used.  For maximum IQ and solid monitoring options, my Ninja V has me covered.  What my actual dilema is this: how long should I hang on to this camera, and should I continue to invest in the Nikon Z system?  I plan to eventually move on from the Z6, as cameras have improved since then, and we have affordable large-sensored cameras that offer 10-bit LOG internally.  The Panasonic S5 II, Sony FX30, Canon R8, R6 II, all are options i have thought of down the line. 

 

Where I am at right now: upgrading my camera is not the smartest investment right now.  It is doable down the line, but right now I need to invest in more glass, and if I have the budget possibly some more grip gear to improve my lighting skills.  I could easily purchase some affordable, used F-mount glass that will work with my Z6.  This will be an easy route, as I already own the FTZ adapter.  With that being said, it seems pointless to invest in F-mount glass if I will eventually switch systems.

 

This is very long-winded, so let me get down to my question.  Which of these two options would you say is the best route?

 

Option 1 -- Keep my Nikon Z6 and grow my lens collection.  My next Nikon body will then most likely be either the Z8, or if it ever releases, the Z6 III.  This upgrade would not take place until at least a year from now.

 

Option 2 -- Sell my FTZ adapter and adapt EF or E mount.  I will take a small loss by selling my FTZ adapter and Tamron 45mm 1.8 lens, but this allows me to invest in glass that I can use with other systems down the line.

 

Option 3 -- Sell my Z6 sooner, sell the FTZ adapter, and switch systems entirely, either to Sony, Canon or Panasonic, with the most likely candidates being either the Panasonic S5 II, a used R6 OG, or the Sony FX30.

Don't buy anything unless the lack of it gets mentioned by a client, or drives you nuts in the edit.

Instead, focus on colour grading, editing, sound design, storytelling, etc etc.  Some of the biggest videos that get the most views or likes etc are shot exclusively iPhones, lots of working pros are shooting on 5+ year old cine/ENG style cameras, and some of histories most critically acclaimed TV and movies were shot in SD on a single prime or zoom lens - if you can't make good enough videos with your Z6 and a Ninja Star and a few AF or MF lenses, then the problem isn't the camera.

[FHDcrew]

26 minutes ago, kye said:

if you can't make good enough videos with your Z6 and a Ninja Star and a few AF or MF lenses, then the problem isn't the camera.

Understood. I think I need to stop nitpicking over my external recorders TBH 😂 

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Where I am at right now: upgrading my camera is not the smartest investment right now

There’s your answer. 

Work with what you have whilst keeping a future eye on that Z8 which I think may turn out to be something a bit special.

But right now, be smart.

[kye]

54 minutes ago, FHDcrew said:

Understood. I think I need to stop nitpicking over my external recorders TBH 😂 

I totally understand why people are trying to buy their way to better videos, it's a much easier experience to research cameras and discuss (dream) about what cool new things you could buy, and it's brutal to admit you don't know much about a subject and start studying it (forcing your brain to work hard) and to do that for months and months.

Unfortunately, that's what it takes to actually become a better film-maker.  I posted over in the "Once in a lifetime shoot" thread about the Tokyo episode of Parts Unknown that won a bunch of awards, but long story short, the cinematography didn't include any shots that were amazing in a grandiose kind of way, but it had a huge variety of solid shots from creative angles the editing and sound design were absolutely spectacular - end result..  awards and nominations, and a great viewing experience that is far from the pedestrian nature of most professional content, let alone us mere mortals.

The innovative nature of that episode alone is enough to make you crawl into the foetal position under the blankets, but the news is actually tremendous...  most of the content in the world is so bland by comparison that to create solid professional-level edits you don't have to get to knowing 80% of what the greats know - a solid 20% will do just fine.

[FHDcrew]

13 minutes ago, kye said:

I totally understand why people are trying to buy their way to better videos, it's a much easier experience to research cameras and discuss (dream) about what cool new things you could buy, and it's brutal to admit you don't know much about a subject and start studying it (forcing your brain to work hard) and to do that for months and months.

Unfortunately, that's what it takes to actually become a better film-maker.  I posted over in the "Once in a lifetime shoot" thread about the Tokyo episode of Parts Unknown that won a bunch of awards, but long story short, the cinematography didn't include any shots that were amazing in a grandiose kind of way, but it had a huge variety of solid shots from creative angles the editing and sound design were absolutely spectacular - end result..  awards and nominations, and a great viewing experience that is far from the pedestrian nature of most professional content, let alone us mere mortals.

The innovative nature of that episode alone is enough to make you crawl into the foetal position under the blankets, but the news is actually tremendous...  most of the content in the world is so bland by comparison that to create solid professional-level edits you don't have to get to knowing 80% of what the greats know - a solid 20% will do just fine.

100% agree with you here. And it’s like my mind has been split. A good chunk has consistently been in the mindset of stop worrying about gear. Just keep progressing and learning as you go. And I see the results; what I make now in all aspects is better than what I made 2 years ago. When I was shooting with the exact same gear.  I really see the impact learning various skills such as lighting and color grading have really amped up my visuals.  But yes I still struggle with the very tendency I know is awful and tell people never to get into. The tendency to obsess over gear, having those “if only” moments. 
 

I spoke to a friend who shoots on a Nikon D850. Told him about how I wanted to upgrade from my Z6. He asked why, I said because I don’t like how long it takes to use the Atomos Ninja V / Ninja Star each time I setup.He asked how long it takes to setup, I said maybe a minute at the longest  

His reply: “Isn’t it funny how just 60 seconds can seem so long?”

 

Anyways, thanks for the therapy session @kye.  I need to not worry about upgrading my camera because I genuinely don’t need to do so. 

[kye]

35 minutes ago, FHDcrew said:

His reply: “Isn’t it funny how just 60 seconds can seem so long?”

I think the best way to do things is this:

1. Test your equipment to understand its limitations
2. Use your equipment to shoot real footage
3. Edit and deliver a real project
4. Look at what issues / limitations there were in the final edit, then..
5. If you can fix them by using your equipment differently, do that (and do lots of tests)
6. If you can fix them by learning to plan/capture/light/edit/colour/master better then go learn (understand the theory, then go do lots of tests and practice)
7. If you can't fix them any other way AND they're worth spending the money to solve AND it won't hurt you in some other way THEN spend money to fix them
8. Go to step 2

That's it.  Only ever fix problems that you encounter in post on real projects - the rest is just BS.

Step 7 is particularly brutal as well, because often we're faced with choices where we can improve one thing but it kills other aspects of the process.  This is where the "60 seconds can seem so long" comes in.  I routinely find that I have clips that contain 1s of good video but that's hard to use in an edit and I'd actually want to include 1s prior to that, but I wasn't fast enough in setting up the shot in order to get it.  I developed the technique of hitting record on the camera before I frame and focus because it means that I can use the clip from the very first frame that is in focus.  In that sense even 1s is the difference between a usable shot and it being very difficult to use.

[Django]

I hate being tethered to recorders, its clunky, requires another set of batteries and zaps the whole point of IBIS equipped mirrorless: handheld portability. If you're always shooting on sticks I guess its just an extra step to your rig but if you wanna go handheld it kinda sucks. So its not just the setup time, its a clunky affair.

Nikon really put its users in a corner with the lack of internal log. Its why I never considered those cameras despite being a long time Nikon shooter with still a couple nice vintage F-mount lenses left.

Then you have the limited upgrade path, basically Z8/Z9. Expensive. And no cine line.

All these could be valid motives to switch systems. As others noted, only you can decide what your best move is.

If you think you can swing a Z8 down the line, maybe better to wait and do option 1. F-mount glass is definitely a good incentive to remain in the Nikon ecosystem. We often gush over new bodies but its the lens collection you wanna be thinking about longterm.

 

 

[FHDcrew]

6 minutes ago, Django said:

F-mount glass is definitely a good incentive to remain in the Nikon ecosystem. We often gush over new bodies but its the lens collection you wanna be thinking about longterm.

Yep except I have barley invested in glass. I literally just own a 45mm F-mount prime. It’s moreso the question of do I invest in more F-mount glass or no cause maybe I will switch systems…

[homestar_kevin]

You're in a good spot in that F mount glass is so damn cheap at the moment.

I have the z5 and and have been using my F mount glass on it as well as slowly buying Z mount glass over the past year or so.

If I were you I'd poke around and find a Z mount 24-70mm f/4. It's a pretty awesome lens and can be found around $400.

If that's too pricey, but the F mount 24-85mm f/3.4-4.5 VR, it's a very similar lens but can be found for like $200.

The other F mount lens that is always going with my at the moment is the latest nikon 70-300mm AF-P. Super sharp throughout the range and works so well on the Z cameras.

I'd grab or look into those two lenses, though there are truly some other great F mount lenses out there like the 16-35mm f/4, the 70-200mm f/4, and all the telephoto stuff. You can also get a v1 or v2 70-200 2.8 for really cheap too.

Going EF or E mount is another viable option for sure, but I'd probably target the Z 24-70 to start. If you buy it used, you won't really lose any money if you go to sell later and get out of the system and will most likely be able to bundle it with your camera.

[newfoundmass]

My general rule, as someone that likes to spend as little money as possible, is to run the camera into the ground and only upgrade when it stops working or it no longer can do what you need it to do. I'm still running a GH5 and don't see a scenario where I "upgrade" for at least another year. There just isn't a need to. The image I get from it is more than enough, and the stabilization is still great. Those are my primary needs.

I think Nikon is a fine system to invest in, and I think they are one of the most forward thinking companies when it comes to video right now. And with lenses you'll still get a decent amount back if you decide to sell them. 

Just my two cents!

[kye]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

My general rule, as someone that likes to spend as little money as possible, is to run the camera into the ground and only upgrade when it stops working or it no longer can do what you need it to do. I'm still running a GH5 and don't see a scenario where I "upgrade" for at least another year. There just isn't a need to. The image I get from it is more than enough, and the stabilization is still great. Those are my primary needs.

I think Nikon is a fine system to invest in, and I think they are one of the most forward thinking companies when it comes to video right now. And with lenses you'll still get a decent amount back if you decide to sell them. 

Just my two cents!

I've found that the more I learn about colour grading the better my cameras become.

I don't know if it's Resolve or just my experience but I've had a bit of a breakthrough in the last couple of years by using CSTs to change the cameras colour space to Davinci's Wide colour space, grading in that colour space, and then doing a CST / CST+LUT to get back to 709.  I use this workflow even if the camera shoots in 709.

This seems to give a process where WB changes and exposure changes work as intended instead of ruining the images, and you end up with great and consistent contrast and saturation, even between cameras of different manufacturers.

I always struggled to get good colour from the GH5, and found the colour from the newer FF models to be much nicer, but Resolve now basically fixes this, it really is incredible.

[FHDcrew]

4 minutes ago, kye said:

I've found that the more I learn about colour grading the better my cameras become.

I don't know if it's Resolve or just my experience but I've had a bit of a breakthrough in the last couple of years by using CSTs to change the cameras colour space to Davinci's Wide colour space, grading in that colour space, and then doing a CST / CST+LUT to get back to 709.  I use this workflow even if the camera shoots in 709.

This seems to give a process where WB changes and exposure changes work as intended instead of ruining the images, and you end up with great and consistent contrast and saturation, even between cameras of different manufacturers.

I always struggled to get good colour from the GH5, and found the colour from the newer FF models to be much nicer, but Resolve now basically fixes this, it really is incredible.

I’ll have to give it a try!  So you CST into DWG, then CST back to 709 and grade in the middle?  Do you CST back to Rec709 or Gamma 2.4?

[kye]

1 hour ago, FHDcrew said:

I’ll have to give it a try!  So you CST into DWG, then CST back to 709 and grade in the middle?  Do you CST back to Rec709 or Gamma 2.4?

Basically, yes.

To get from DWG back to 709, the common approaches to use are:

• CST to 709/2.4
• CST from DWG to Arri then use the Arri LogC-709 LUT
• CST from DWG to Arri then use a Film Look LUT (PFE) like 2383 or 2393 etc

As far as I understand it, only the new HDR colour wheels are meant to be "colour space aware" but I've found that the normal LGG wheel panel also works great, much better than I remember them working in years past.  This is particularly useful if you have a BM Colour Panel (I have the Micro one) which can be used with either the HDR or normal LGG wheels but is more suited to the normal LGG wheels than the HDR ones.

[PPNS]

i’m gonna be honest, i’m not going to read most of the replies here, sorry. 
 

just based on the kind of things you shoot, which seem like corporate video/testimonial kind of stuff, get a camera that makes your life easier. For you this will probably be a sony fs7. I dont know what the market is like there in the us, but they’re getting ridiculously cheap here. You’re going to be so happy to have built in NDs, full size xlrs for your microphones and decent audio menus. Keep your nikon for a while, and keep shooting tests with both, so you can practice matching the two cameras in resolve. That way you can save yourself some money by not buying a matching B cam or whatever.

[FHDcrew]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:00 AM, homestar_kevin said:

You're in a good spot in that F mount glass is so damn cheap at the moment.

I have the z5 and and have been using my F mount glass on it as well as slowly buying Z mount glass over the past year or so.

If I were you I'd poke around and find a Z mount 24-70mm f/4. It's a pretty awesome lens and can be found around $400.

If that's too pricey, but the F mount 24-85mm f/3.4-4.5 VR, it's a very similar lens but can be found for like $200.

The other F mount lens that is always going with my at the moment is the latest nikon 70-300mm AF-P. Super sharp throughout the range and works so well on the Z cameras.

I'd grab or look into those two lenses, though there are truly some other great F mount lenses out there like the 16-35mm f/4, the 70-200mm f/4, and all the telephoto stuff. You can also get a v1 or v2 70-200 2.8 for really cheap too.

Going EF or E mount is another viable option for sure, but I'd probably target the Z 24-70 to start. If you buy it used, you won't really lose any money if you go to sell later and get out of the system and will most likely be able to bundle it with your camera.

Took your advice and decided to hang on to my Z6 for a while longer.  I bought a Nikon 17-35 2.8 for $350.  It's the older screw-type but it does have an AF motor and saw an autofocus test with the Nikon Z7, performance was solid.

[mercer]

I know you're in school, but is it your end goal to be a videographer or a filmmaker?

Camera choice aside, if your end goal is to make films... either as a cinematographer or a director, or both, you may want to consider building a collection of manual focus/aperture lenses. The Nikon F mount is a great option with a long history of amazing lenses. I recommend trying to get the fastest lenses you can. They're a bit more money, but in the end, when you've decided you need them, you'll be happy you didn't waste any time with the slower lenses. To start out, the 28mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 are great lenses that can be found pretty cheap if you go with the non-ai or ai versions.

If you decide not to stick with Nikon cameras, Nikkor lenses will adapt to any camera you may upgrade to.

With that said, if you are considering filmmaking (narrative or other) you may want to look for an inexpensive camera that you can experiment with for short films, music videos, docs, etc... perhaps an OG BMPCC or even a P4K as it seems the prices for them are coming down on the used market.

Good luck with your choice. 

[FHDcrew]

24 minutes ago, mercer said:

I know you're in school, but is it your end goal to be a videographer or a filmmaker?

Camera choice aside, if your end goal is to make films... either as a cinematographer or a director, or both, you may want to consider building a collection of manual focus/aperture lenses. The Nikon F mount is a great option with a long history of amazing lenses. I recommend trying to get the fastest lenses you can. They're a bit more money, but in the end, when you've decided you need them, you'll be happy you didn't waste any time with the slower lenses. To start out, the 28mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 are great lenses that can be found pretty cheap if you go with the non-ai or ai versions.

If you decide not to stick with Nikon cameras, Nikkor lenses will adapt to any camera you may upgrade to.

With that said, if you are considering filmmaking (narrative or other) you may want to look for an inexpensive camera that you can experiment with for short films, music videos, docs, etc... perhaps an OG BMPCC or even a P4K as it seems the prices for them are coming down on the used market.

Good luck with your choice. 

Well the goal is technically videography as I plan to work in the corporate space.  But I'm trying to approach it with a cinematographer's mindset when it comes to how I handle the overall style, lighting and color grading, etc.  And yes I still have a long way to go but am seeing steady progress in my abilities.

 

So I'd say in technicality: Videographer

In terms of style/technique: Cinematographer

[MrSMW]

If it’s any ‘consolation’, quite a few trying out Z8 and Z9, say they prefer the image out of the Z6 and Z7…

Probably/maybe due to the bigger boys only having an e:shutter?

But otherwise good call I think to invest in what you have. Becoming ultra-familiar with not just your tools, but your entire workflow is very important.

It was one of the key deciding factors, along with cost (your dilemma also) in me not switching back to Nikon after leaving that system 12-13 years ago.

Flipping 3 older bodies for 2 new bodies yes, but keeping that familiarity very close and since a long time, actually having 3 identical bodies.

Also a good call by @mercer re. those lenses.