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Replacement for Samsung NX1, does it exist?


SMGJohn
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I bought my Samsung NX1 around 2014, and I still own it, in perfect condition.

But the question eventually arise, is there something better at last?

Something with sensor stabiliser, colours to match Samsung but superior image quality and superior LOG ability.

So far, I have only seen Fujifilm X-T4, A7III and possibly Nikon Z6 

People applaud these as ultimate hybrid cameras, but I am not sure if they really can surpass Samsung, in the end they always have some kind of annoying quirk.

Why would I replace the Samsung? Because its not a perfect camera either, all I want is something in the same price bracket with better low light, similar or superior colour science, none of that goulish Panasonic colours or Sony love for orange hue.

Something that is better at run and gun, got AF to match or surpass the NX1, superior flat image to grade but also ability to shoot good colour profiles straight to card if needed.

Only the Fuji seems to be the spiritual successor to the NX1, but is there any other camera to look out for?

 

 

 

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XT4 would be my pick.

Not that I had an NX1 but I reckon the Fuji would be the ‘closest’. It’s what I would be shooting if I hadn’t gone over to the ghoulish Panny S5. I moved from the XT3.

I suspect it will probably be better in most regards as 6 years is a long time in Cameraland.

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Yeah Fuji is probably the closest. 4K 60p, 10 bit, LOG are all upgrades coming from the NX1.

Fuji AF is probably not as reliable as the NX1 though and I don't think low light is much better. I do love Fuji color a lot.

I think the Sony A7S3 is a good option, colors are a lot better than previous attempts from Sony. However its a bit of cash to shell out at $4000.

I personally think the Pana S1 is the best deal on the market right now, you just have to deal with subpar Auto focus. Colors are a good deal better than the M43 cameras IMO. I prefer Fuji color but Fuji's 4k files just feel a bit thin compared to Panasonic's.

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I only used a borrowed NX1 for a few weeks and that was a long time ago, so I can't recall a lot of real specific details about the colors.

My recommendation based on what you want:

  • Fujifilm X-S10 or used X-H1: all the great colors and profiles, internal Eterna and f-log (but 8-bit internally on both, 10-bit externally on the X-H1), and IBIS. The deeper grip of both is much more similar to the NX1 and the top panel display is on the X-H1. The X-S10 also has the flip out screen, which may be preferred by you, the X-H1 has the 3 way tilt like the X-T4.

    X-S10 pros: newest sensor and autofocus, likely a little better IBIS, better battery life, PASM dial like NX1 which I prefer myself especially because you can do custom modes (C1, C2, C3) just like the NX1 has. I also think it's better if you do a lot of video work.

    X-S10 cons: single UHS-I card slot, no vertical grip, no 400mbps output, maybe worse EVF but I don't remember.

    X-H1 pros: cheaper (used, no longer available new), vertical grip compatibility, 10-bit out, top panel LCD.
     
  • Nikon Z6/Z6II: (Z6II is worth the extra $500 if you buy new - better AF, dual slots, vertical grip)e

    -- Pros: Higher dynamic range, better RAW colors, full frame, amazing lenses that are leagues above Fuji's, superior autofocus to Fuji (some people may argue about this but I returned my Fuji X-T4 after finding its AF (in both S-AF and Continuous) to be extremely underwhelming. Nikon is fast, quiet, and locks on accurately every time. C-AF is great too, even in video mode (better than Fuji, not as good as newest Sonys or Canons). Best ergonomics of any mirrorless cameras, except for maybe the Panasonic S1 which has a beefier grip and more external controls, but at the expense of significantly more bulk and weight. Also, ability to use Sony FE lenses with autofocus using the two adapters on the market. No other system can do this. 12-bit ProRes RAW and BRAW output.

    -- Cons: more expensive, bigger and pricier lenses (price you pay for full-frame), no internal LOG profile but Andrew does sell his own faux-LOG profile for the Z6/Z7 here and it's quite good. 4K video is limited to 30fps vs. 60fps on Fuji. MUCH better IBIS. The best of any APS-C or FF mirrorless system along with Panasonic L and the much more expensive Canon RF cameras. Worse JPEG profiles compared to Fuji.
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3 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Just remembering that the dial custom modes on the X-S10 just work for stills, not for video.

Not uncommon, but I believe you can still separate the stills and video settings in the menu, so that when you flip to movie mode you have those settings already set up. That's basically it's own custom mode.

What I meant by preferring a PASM dial being better for heavy video users is simply because aperture and ISO dials are useless for that kind of stuff.

One reason I could never totally get on board with Fuji was the lack of a high-end camera with a PASM dial. The X-H2 might fit that bill. Granted, I used to have to deal with not having custom modes on the high-end Nikon DSLRs (even though the mid-ranges one did have them.... never made sense), but ever since going mirrorless with the Z system, I can't live without custom modes.

(the GFX 100S also has a PASM dial and a bunch of custom modes, like 6 I think, which is awesome)

I just have no use for aperture/ISO dials on my workhorse camera. It's fine (and great) on something like the X100 or a Leica Q or whatever, because those are generally always used in one way.

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On 8/25/2021 at 7:16 AM, M_Williams said:
  • Nikon Z6/Z6II: (Z6II is worth the extra $500 if you buy new - better AF, dual slots, vertical grip)e

    -- Pros: Higher dynamic range, better RAW colors, full frame, amazing lenses that are leagues above Fuji's, superior autofocus to Fuji (some people may argue about this but I returned my Fuji X-T4 after finding its AF (in both S-AF and Continuous) to be extremely underwhelming. Nikon is fast, quiet, and locks on accurately every time. C-AF is great too, even in video mode (better than Fuji, not as good as newest Sonys or Canons). Best ergonomics of any mirrorless cameras, except for maybe the Panasonic S1 which has a beefier grip and more external controls, but at the expense of significantly more bulk and weight. Also, ability to use Sony FE lenses with autofocus using the two adapters on the market. No other system can do this. 12-bit ProRes RAW and BRAW output.

    -- Cons: more expensive, bigger and pricier lenses (price you pay for full-frame), no internal LOG profile but Andrew does sell his own faux-LOG profile for the Z6/Z7 here and it's quite good. 4K video is limited to 30fps vs. 60fps on Fuji. MUCH better IBIS. The best of any APS-C or FF mirrorless system along with Panasonic L and the much more expensive Canon RF cameras. Worse JPEG profiles compared to Fuji.

Nikon Z6/Z6 Mark 2 looks like good cameras but, to record LOG or RAW video, you need external recorder bolted on somewhere, and these are not small sadly. 

Fujifilm X-T4 feels ergonomically like trash its also ironically heavier with the 16-55mm F2.8 than the NX1 with the 16-50mm F2-2.8 setup.

I been looking a little over a month now for a camera to replace the NX1, but looking at countless of review samples, testing the cameras out in the store, none of them just feels or perform like the NX1, there always a quirk that bothers me.

Its kind of annoying really, if we had Magic Lantern on the Canon 90D it would be the perfect camera since it has a good sensor to match the NX1. But as usual, crippled by Canon. 

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14 hours ago, M_Williams said:

Not uncommon, but I believe you can still separate the stills and video settings in the menu, so that when you flip to movie mode you have those settings already set up. That's basically it's own custom mode.

 

Still not tested the custom modes in my X-S10, but lots of people already said that the Custom modes only works for stills there.

The X-S10 does not have a dedicated stills/video switch, like the X-T4 - both the movie mode and custom modes are in the PASM dial;  hence, in theory you could not have separate stills and video custom modes.

Will try to test it - could be some kind of collective error; lots of people still says that the X-S10 left dial could only be used to change the fim simulations, and it is not true (the menu layout makes it looks like it is the case, but you can assign lots of functions to the dial).

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3 hours ago, SMGJohn said:

Nikon Z6/Z6 Mark 2 looks like good cameras but, to record LOG or RAW video, you need external recorder bolted on somewhere, and these are not small sadly. 

Fujifilm X-T4 feels ergonomically like trash its also ironically heavier with the 16-55mm F2.8 than the NX1 with the 16-50mm F2-2.8 setup.

I been looking a little over a month now for a camera to replace the NX1, but looking at countless of review samples, testing the cameras out in the store, none of them just feels or perform like the NX1, there always a quirk that bothers me.

Its kind of annoying really, if we had Magic Lantern on the Canon 90D it would be the perfect camera since it has a good sensor to match the NX1. But as usual, crippled by Canon. 

Yeah I agree about the X-T4 being ergonomically awful - I'm not sure how people pretend it isn't unless you're just using a small Fuji prime like the 35/2. Even with the vertical grip it's bad.

That's why I recommended the X-S10 or X-H1. Proper grip like most other cameras, so you can actually hold the thing and not have to contort your hand and fingers awkwardly to reach the shutter button.

Both the X-S10 and X-H1 will do F-Log internally, but it's 8 bit only. X-H1 can output 10-bit. X-H2 should be a killer camera.

From what you want, it sounds like the X-S10 is the way to go, unless you want the 10-bit output ability of the X-H1.

AF tracking will be better on the X-S10 but still inferior to the Nikons.

Panasonic S5 also another option if you are *heavily* into video. That's a no brainer if you really want great video specs. No hybrid out there offers that level of features at that price. But autofocus tracking in video is terrible (it's fine for photos). The Panasonic lenses are very good too, though some are quite expensive, but the 20-60 kit lens is a real gem, as is the 85/1.8. Plus you have all the Sigma lenses available.

The Panasonic S5 will definitely be the closest ergonomically to the NX1, with a lot of similar features except massively better. Panasonic's IBIS is fantastic too.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/27/2021 at 5:33 AM, M_Williams said:

Panasonic S5 also another option if you are *heavily* into video. That's a no brainer if you really want great video specs. No hybrid out there offers that level of features at that price. But autofocus tracking in video is terrible (it's fine for photos). The Panasonic lenses are very good too, though some are quite expensive, but the 20-60 kit lens is a real gem, as is the 85/1.8. Plus you have all the Sigma lenses available.

I was a bit worried that this thread hadn't mentioned Panasonic yet!

Don't base your judgement of Panasonic autofocus on say old GH3 era experiences, it is a hyperbolic exaggeration to now call it "terrible".

The G9 / GH5mk2 / S5 / etc are all top notch video autofocus if you were to ever compare it against that past. If they'd came out back then, people would've been blown away by Panasonic's autofocus and been praising it to the highest extent!


And the pricey Panasonic lenses doesn't matter, as Sigma is there too. 
L Mount really does have all the bases covered:
1) high end luxury premium lenses with Leica 
2) high end but practical lenses with Panasonic 
3) mid range priced lenses with Sigma 
4) low end cheapies from China with manual focus lenses (half a dozen lenses priced sub $400 on B&H alone, and it is still early days, more to come soon for sure)

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19 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I was a bit worried that this thread hadn't mentioned Panasonic yet!

Don't base your judgement of Panasonic autofocus on say old GH3 era experiences, it is a hyperbolic exaggeration to now call it "terrible".

The G9 / GH5mk2 / S5 / etc are all top notch video autofocus if you were to ever compare it against that past. If they'd came out back then, people would've been blown away by Panasonic's autofocus and been praising it to the highest extent!


And the pricey Panasonic lenses doesn't matter, as Sigma is there too. 
L Mount really does have all the bases covered:
1) high end luxury premium lenses with Leica 
2) high end but practical lenses with Panasonic 
3) mid range priced lenses with Sigma 
4) low end cheapies from China with manual focus lenses (half a dozen lenses priced sub $400 on B&H alone, and it is still early days, more to come soon for sure)

I love Panasonic, I have the GH5, S5 and S1 with very good lenses. The S Pro lenses are magnificent and the S5/S1 image quality is great. However The AF is just bad, even with the firmware updates. Even the old NX1 is faster in video.
 

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I shot on the NX1/NX500 as my primary cameras from 2014-2019, before I moved onto an S1/GH5 combo which I'm still happily using currently. I couldn't care less about autofocus (I primarily shoot vintage contax zeiss or anamorphic) so the S1 is an excellent successor to the NX1 for my needs, especially after it's semi-recent updates of 6k internal, pro res raw, output, etc. 

I still love the NX1 and I don't think I'll ever sell it, but while it still has an incredibly detailed image, as amazing as it was back in 2014, no 10-bit modes, no 4k60, no IBIS, no log profile, really strong rolling shutter in 4k, and low light falling off a cliff above 800 ISO all keep it on the shelf for me most of the time these days compared to the S1, which is exceedingly strong in all of those areas. 

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I recently purchased the Panasonic S5 + battery grip with the Sigma 24-70mm f2.8, fantastic kit for 2200 euros when that stuff is well over 3k in Norway. 
And the camera has no marks and only done 2000 shutter count. 

After playing around with it there some really stupid annoyance with the picture mode that I cannot figure out. When I took some comparison photos with the S5 over the NX1, I noticed that the NX1 images both JPEG and RAW are significantly brighter than the S5 is on the same bloody settings. 

No one seems to know the answer to it, but when I edit the RAW images which are darker than the graveyard at night, once I raise the exposure in Adobe RAW it brightens up to how it SHOULD have looked, now why is that? I have that live preview thing enabled, but this annoys me, NX1 shows me exactly what I am gonna get, but S5 does not even have a proper metering which is also annoying. 

The worst part ontop of it all, is the fact that some picture modes absolutely crushes the shadows in an image, making the JPEGs nothing but preview files. 

 

Either the camera does not work right, or there some magic setting that I have not selected, knowing Panasonic and how their GH4 worked, that must be it. 

Strangely, the GH4 to my memory at least showed me how the image would look, but the S5 is really strange. 

Is it really suppose to act like this? I see a lot of forum posts of people complaining about it in other places, but no real answer to how to deal with this.

Because the exposure metre sucks, I cannot judge how underexposed I am, because the live preview sucks, I cannot judge how bloody dark the image really is. 

This is pissing me off, I even factory reset the camera 3 times. Other than that, ergonomically its quite good, obviously it takes time to get to know where all the buttons are, its not quite as comfortable as the NX1 or Nikon Z6 or Canon R6 but its not far off either, its heavy though which is expected from a full frame, at least it aint heavy and only APS-C like a certain other brand. 

Auto focus is surprisingly workable, its slow at times but it gets there, it does not hunt that much even in low light, thats surprising to me, the NX1 is just criminally good though but even that can loose track at times if you are step dancing in the yard at 1AM.

Is the S5 better than NX1? Yes obviously, but unless I cannot figure out this photo quirks why the Goddamn its making my raw and JPEGs pitch black for no reasons. 

But if all you did was taking pictures, the NX1 is fine, its fine for many many years forward, but it suffers in the video department and really, nothing comes close to the S5 in the video department unless you are willing to spend 3 or 4k euros. 

Also the Panasonic lenses are overpriced, Jesus those prices are eye watering. Thank God for Sigma. 

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