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Andrew Reid

Blackmagic not just by name - why the Cinema Camera is the future

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
[b]Now we have FS100, FS700 and BlackMagic (Sorry 5d MK3 out):[/b]

[b]FS100[/b]
Proven real 1080p alternative to the disappointing  5d Mk3

[b]FS700 [/b]
is it really 4k? Or... with the required 4K recorder/firmware will it be much more expensive than expected (See RED Scarlet... ) ?

[b]BlackMagic[/b]
Disruptive for the industry. BUT we have to see what it can really deliver and this is what really matters...

So for me I wait and see... let's check real world reviews and the Sony 4k option cleared before conclusions... ciao!

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A Gutsy article Andrew...and all very true!!
Because there is no competition and bloggers and dont say it like it is...Canon, Panasonic, Red and to a lesser degree Sony have been able to charge outrageous prices for their products and milk them without doing anything major for several years.
The 5D Mark3 was a glaring example of this, they had 3 plus years to really make the Mark3 into something special, they must have known the indie market was huge, but they chose to improve certain areas but largely ignore this market to protect the C300 and C500, the $15,000 upwards cams with hefty prices.
Same with Panasonic, they have not improved even their Camcorders like the TM700, TM900s line for years, just minor changes to milk the market.
Whats the bet the GH3 will be a disappointment? yeah it may have 50/60fps at 1080P (if we are lucky) but I'll bet they dont do too much to improve the cam...(just enough to milk the market more).
And Jan Livingstons posts on your forum the other day seemed to re inforce that corporate mentality these companies have, I realize they have NDA's and the like, but they just dont seem to "get it" and now time is running out for them.
The party may not be over for them yet, but it has been gatecrashed.
As far as the GH2 goes...I personally believe that was something of a fluke...and the hack made it more appealing (thats part the reason I bought one), and the 5D mk2 was legendary of course, but both these companies seem determined to recycle older technology with more or less minor changes for as long as possible,
Jan's posts confirmed that...so I am glad the BlackMagic have decided to to make a camera that will derail the Canon, Panny gravy train at least to some extent.
Sorry Jan...but your posts the other day did more to reinforce my opinion that Panasonic does not "get it" and the GH3 will likely be a disappointment than anything else, I would love to be wrong, but I dont think I will be.
Its amazing to me that Canon and Panasonic have so much technology, so much brand power, but they are somehow in a corporate straight jacket and play it safe.
I'll bet some of the more creative camera designers and innovators at Canon and Panasonic would be frustrated, trying to get these corporations to become seriously competitive with new technology would be something like trying to teach an elephant to tap dance.
So kudos to Blackmagic for having the vision to see this opportunity and actually doing something about it,
I (like others tho...will believe it when this camera is released and proved reliable in the field)
I hope they do come through and the camera is a big hit, because Panasonic and the like certainly seem to be sitting on their hands.

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andy, you could get 12bit raw for under 15000.-
from ikonoskop.... roughly 10000.-

that was an innovative little company too, but i think they can close it now... come july there will hardly be anybody buying their gear anymore...

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What I don't understand is WHY THE HELL they included that bizarre tube for the lens mount, instead of making a lot shorter lens-to-sensor distance, allowing us to use MUCH MORE avalilable lenses.... WHY WHY?!?!??  :-[
When will the TUBELESS version be available??

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I'd like to see the ability to crop the sensor more to standard or super 16mm frame size so all those lenses could be used as well.

Just in case some don't know the sensor width is 15.6 and four thirds is 17.3 In other words its so close to four thirds as it might as well be.

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Sentimental article, and I agree with the principle driving it - but still with just the principle.
This camera was the greatest announcement since the 5DmkII but those celebrated details like 12bit RAW ect.. we saw those on paper with a bunch of promising jpg stills.
This type of article (showing fingers to big companies) would be much more proper, if we could test the released product already.

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Great article Andrew.  Again taking the lead amongst camera blogs on the avant-garde.

Just yesterday a former Apple employee returned from NAB.
We talked that geeky shop that people like us talk.
Wasn't long before we talked about the Blackmagic Camera.

He specifically called it disruptive technology.

Then I showed him (on an ipad) the eoshd.com article contrasting the various sensor sizes
(Super 35, M43, Blackmagic Camera Active Imaging Size and Super 16mm).  We talked more.

Our talk, and your follow-up article today spurred me to build upon your article and paint an even broader picture.

Andrew in your link to DPReview, I noticed Comments/Complaints have surfaced (it is a forum after all):
- it's only good for MAC.
- it looks like MAC trash box with no way to hold it
- Yada, yada. 

Love it or hate it, the comments point to the fact that Grant Petty has copied from the best:
From that American Visionary and that British Designer you so rightly mentioned.

The Blackmagic Camera is the Apple Camera.  It's what Apple would have made if they made cameras.
This is especially true when you see Blackmagic's website...which is a modified version of Apple's.


----Please see the attached picture----


If this Blackmagic Camera takes off, Apple will come knocking. 
Clearly, they've already worked together, beating even Sony's F65 (that will come soon though and be awesome)
to be the first in Thunderbolt Integration. 

Thunderbolt is the key to RAW workflow, and RAW is the future.  But it's horribly complicated with layers of metadata.
The current interfaces of all cameras add to the burden by doing nothing to simplify it.
Even though all the pieces are there, they are not simplified and made elegant and intelligible by the end user.

You know who's good at simplification of complicated gear?  Apple...and Blackmagic has followed suit.

The mere existence of the Blackmagic Camera speaks volumes.
If they were a boy and girl, this would be Apple and Blackmagic living together before deciding to get married.

Which means it may not happen...but they are thinking about it. 

The design of the camera, it's visual marketing campaign...it's the camera Apple would have made if it made cameras..

Which is why if Blackmagic Camera takes off...

...Apple will tie the knot. 

Apple Computers
Apple Mp3 Players
Apple Phones
Apple TV
Apple Camera?

With Apple's resources, it could be the beginning of Apple's entry into the Camera business. 

Blackmagic parallel's Apple's not only in the Camera's target market but in it's selling of simplification.

This is something that Canon DSLR's did not do. 
- transcoding was something for which a third-party had to invent an application for goodness' sake
- The process was fragmented and people were left to make their own way.
As Andrew put, they landed ass-backwards into pole position but still didn't realize that they had.  Very nicely put.

Now the consternating constellation of post-production will be unified.  One camera, one Mac, one thunderbolt cord.

Apple was not in a position to compete with Canon in 2008-2012.
Canon was bringing/converting Large CMOS sensors to the mass market via the 5D, 7D, 550D, 60D, etc...

That phase has passed, Canon has made large CMOS sensors a reality at the general consumer level. 
Thanks Canon, we shant soon forget you.

But you have moved on...
...and Blackmagic has swooped in...with Apple's looking closely over their shoulder.

This may be the year the Mayans said the world would end, but to me, it's looking more and more like the beginning of a whole new era in Cameras.

Peace

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though if Canon really wanted to shut everyone up now, the only right thing to do is release a firmware upgrade next week that gives us clean HDMI out. that is the only answer. NIkon has it, its foolish we dont. this way we can still have our still camera and for 1500 bucks get a recorder of our choice and make us be able to shoot professional quality video. then we would have professional photography and videography in our hands, that beats the black magic camera in my mind, especially as far as a prosumer market.

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This has been the thing all of us have been hoping the big cam companies would actually produce and none of them did it.  If you don't "Think Different" you can never get to a truly ground breaking product.  It's the most exciting thing in a long time because it's exactly what the public wanted.  I'm looking to get one because I like everything i've seen about it so far.  It isn't perfect, but what product is?  This is just the start of a platform that can grow from here.

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[quote author=jlev23 link=topic=613.msg4389#msg4389 date=1334878315]

though if Canon really wanted to shut everyone up now, the only right thing to do is release a firmware upgrade next week that gives us clean HDMI out. that is the only answer. NIkon has it, its foolish we dont. this way we can still have our still camera and for 1500 bucks get a recorder of our choice and make us be able to shoot professional quality video. then we would have professional photography and videography in our hands, that beats the black magic camera in my mind, especially as far as a prosumer market.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I've been thinking.  If Canon wants to derail the launch of BM's new camera, all they have to do is release a firmware update that gives us the features we've all been screaming for--not the least of which is a clean video out.  Maybe derail isn't the right word, but it would give Canon some time to figure out what to do next.  Canon would sell a boatload of their existing product, and those of us who already have 5D, 7D, 550D, 60D cameras would have pride of ownership for a little while longer.

But Canon do have to figure out what's next.  I'm not asking for the performance of a C300/C500 or 1D C for my 1200 euro investment, but I am asking for a reason not to shop around for awhile.

I'll hold off for now on the Blackmagic offering, but it sure is appealing.

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[quote author=Rinaldo link=topic=613.msg4379#msg4379 date=1334871920]
What I don't understand is WHY THE HELL they included that bizarre tube for the lens mount, instead of making a lot shorter lens-to-sensor distance, allowing us to use MUCH MORE avalilable lenses.... WHY WHY?!?!??  :-[
When will the TUBELESS version be available??
[/quote]
because with tube and big canon lens it looks cooler for customers :) imagine same camera pictures with small panasonic or c-mount lens and this wide camera body with display became visually very gigantic and disproportionately.
i also afraid about few else things:
how usable will be push to touch screen and especially to upper physical buttons with attached sun hood?
how usable it will be always monitoring video through the layer of fingerprints fat on display?
other cons are:
as it was said before - no physical buttons for shutter speed, iso and wb - its bad (they can easily put them instead those unnecessary play-stop forward-backward buttons)
no usb 3.0 and no hdmi - its bad too.
16 mm lenses are too small to cover sensor and cannot be attached
micro 4/3 lenses are too big to cover sensor correctly and also can not be attached before they release version with proper mount.
2.5k dng image files are huge and raw workflow is not so fast as it really can be.

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[quote author=Rinaldo link=topic=613.msg4379#msg4379 date=1334871920]
What I don't understand is WHY THE HELL they included that bizarre tube for the lens mount, instead of making a lot shorter lens-to-sensor distance, allowing us to use MUCH MORE avalilable lenses.... WHY WHY?!?!??  :-[
[/quote]

Agreed!  So many good design decisions with this camera, this is not one of them.  Not only do we have a big empty tube sticking out the camera, we will also have big heavy wide angle lenses on the thing, lenses made big and heavy by their retrofocus design due to the mirror in the SLRs for which they are made.  But there is no mirror in this thing.  It is silly.

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Now I'm wondering who will be the first to hardware mod this baby? Hacksaw off the tube, and bolt on a 3rd party m4/3 lense mount..I can see some enterprising dude make a nice niche for himself right here until BMv2 comes out in a year or two with a m4/3 mount as standard...

So who's good with a hacksaw?

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[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=613.msg4399#msg4399 date=1334886943]
The internal battery is wrong headed and a problem.
[/quote]
as so as they left option for external battery, internal battery more like half-wrong solution.

BTW [email protected]  dng raw its about 106 MB/second or 6.3 GB/min or 378 GB/hour

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[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=613.msg4399#msg4399 date=1334886943]
The internal battery is wrong headed and a problem.
[/quote]

Agreed.  Two bad design decisions with this camera: internal battery and EOS mount.  Everything else is all we could hope for (and more) at $3000.

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I am not going to say anything about what it takes to make decent camera BUT why would anybody cripple their nice fast wide ZE/ZF lenses on this box which looks like was designed by Stalin ENGs in 50sss..
just imagine what it will do to a new Zeiss 15mm f2.8

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