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Liam

Anyone using a mailing (or emailing) list?

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Might not be ideal for a filmmaker, vs like an auhor or cartoonist, but I'm curious..

Seems like fans that sign up for a mailing list might be more enthusiastic or feel like they're part of something (?)

It's kind of old school or underground in a cool way maybe

Maybe it's in direct conflict with a vimeo page.. like if people already follow you, they might just get pissed that you're also bugging them through email

Idk. No idea how I'd build one etc

Maybe this is basically what patreon is for now

 

Just antsy and struggling like always to reach anyone. 

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13 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

To my knowledge, this is a helpful tool if you're already working that way, but maybe won't help me get people won't quite help me get going..?

Correct me if I'm wrong

I feel pretty able to send emails, so an expensive tool won't be my first step

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Idk, Mail Chimp is pretty cheap but it may not be what you are looking for.

You probably just need to grind out work and post it as many places as you can. Find review sites. Enter in festivals and contests. But most importantly keep creating and posting. The more work you have the more chances of more eyes on it.

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The recipe that I hear from the professional youtubers and bloggers is to: 1) be consistent but expect it to take 5 years before it's a full-time income, and 2) be authentic.

If you're crazy good then it will take less time, but my impression is that it always sucks at the start.

One thing I did take note of was that if you come to the attention of someone with a much larger following than you, they will either mention you or not based upon the quality of your past works.  This means that instead of looking at the views of your uploads / posts as you release them, think of them more like your resume for getting big mentions later on.

If you're not enjoying it, then it might be time to change it up so that you're enjoying the journey rather than just grinding to get to somewhere else?

What is it you're doing anyway?

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Yeah you have to post like hell on You Tube and you Have to be good, a standout. Not many people have the time or talent to do that everyday. I think in this day and age you just have to be damn lucky to have a decent film you make become a real sensation. Man there is now competition from all over the world no matter their income bracket. Like I said if you are good you can make standout stuff with your phone. Hell nearly everyone has one of those now.

I see Casey Neistat has 15 million subscribers now. 15 Million!! But how many people have his drive, passion, talent skills, get along with everyone it seems. He is a dynamo, go,go, go. And he is not alone on there. And like I have said, editing, VFX stuff is bigger standout now than just shooting the stuff. How many people are good at that. Man it would take a commitment from hell to stand out now I think. But why not, why not try.

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41 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk, Mail Chimp is pretty cheap but it may not be what you are looking for.

You probably just need to grind out work and post it as many places as you can. Find review sites. Enter in festivals and contests. But most importantly keep creating and posting. The more work you have the more chances of more eyes on it.

It's over a hundred dollars a year, which could be fine if it's helpful, but I can't make heads or tails of what it's even supposed to do. If it helps me send emails, I'll look at it later.

Yeah, I'm just spiraling out again because yesterday I got rejected from the worst film festival ever. But I do make a lot of stufd and post it places.

38 minutes ago, kye said:

The recipe that I hear from the professional youtubers and bloggers is to: 1) be consistent but expect it to take 5 years before it's a full-time income, and 2) be authentic.

If you're crazy good then it will take less time, but my impression is that it always sucks at the start.

One thing I did take note of was that if you come to the attention of someone with a much larger following than you, they will either mention you or not based upon the quality of your past works.  This means that instead of looking at the views of your uploads / posts as you release them, think of them more like your resume for getting big mentions later on.

If you're not enjoying it, then it might be time to change it up so that you're enjoying the journey rather than just grinding to get to somewhere else?

What is it you're doing anyway?

I'm not trying to make a living, I'm just trying to gt any sort of audience to help the constant feeling I'm delusional.

I enjoy my work, but staying sane with no support isn't easy.

I make films and comics, and write books because I've been changing it up because nothing is working.

 

 

But yeah, I'm not sure if my whiny specifics are necessary here.

Lot of people I've been a fan of, way back in the day, were using a mailing list, and maybe I'm embarrassing myself again, buy I just don't know what the basic premise is.. just ask anyone and everyone for their addresses?

25 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah you have to post like hell on You Tube and you Have to be good, a standout. Not many people have the time or talent to do that everyday. I think in this day and age you just have to be damn lucky to have a decent film you make become a real sensation. Man there is now competition from all over the world no matter their income bracket. Like I said if you are good you can make standout stuff with your phone. Hell nearly everyone has one of those now.

I see Casey Neistat has 15 million subscribers now. 15 Million!! But how many people have his drive, passion, talent skills, get along with everyone it seems. He is a dynamo, go,go, go. And he is not alone on there. And like I have said, editing, VFX stuff is bigger standout now than just shooting the stuff. How many people are good at that. Man it would take a commitment from hell to stand out now I think. But why not, why not try.

I hate Casey so goddamn much. Good for him and all, but jesus christ.

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1 hour ago, Liam said:

I

I hate Casey so goddamn much. Good for him and all, but jesus christ.

Yeah I got to admit he has gotten sort of Fruity as of late. Not nearly as big of fan as I was years ago, not that I even had any desire to meet him even then LoL. But I do admire his drive. He is a make shit happen person. And that is the only types that are going to survive, and make good money on YT down the road. The secret is out all over the world. Just think how little you would have to get to be sort of doing damn well in say the Congo in Africa for subscribers. 250k of them and you hit the jackpot. Several Patreon subs on top of that and you are Golden.

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All you can do is keep working and finding your audience. With every project your craft grows and the connection between yourself and your work fortifies.

Have you tried posting your work on IG. I haven’t had the chance to watch your latest cartoon but I enjoyed your first one. If you can come up with 1 minute or less cartoons, Instagram is a great place to grow an audience.

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44 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah I got to admit he has gotten sort of Fruity as of late. Not nearly as big of fan as I was years ago, not that I even had any desire to meet him even then LoL. But I do admire his drive. He is a make shit happen person. And that is the only types that are going to survive, and make good money on YT down the road. The secret is out all over the world. Just think how little you would have to get to be sort of doing damn well in say the Congo in Africa for subscribers. 250k of them and you hit the jackpot. Several Patreon subs on top of that and you are Golden.

Yeah, he's obviously really good at certain things.. or, building an audience.. and only that. But even the way he does that depresses me. I hate whining about things being a popularity contest, but I mean...

38 minutes ago, mercer said:

All you can do is keep working and finding your audience. With every project your craft grows and the connection between yourself and your work fortifies.

Have you tried posting your work on IG. I haven’t had the chance to watch your latest cartoon but I enjoyed your first one. If you can come up with 1 minute or less cartoons, Instagram is a great place to grow an audience.

I stopped getting new followers on vimeo probably 4 films ago. Somehow fewer views etc with each new one...

I've gotta try instagram at least for promotion stuff, I guess, but it feels as hopeless as youtube really.. viral stuff can go super viral, but if you have nothing, an audience won't just appear.

I'm actually applying to school right now, but it's crazy, even trying to just learn more can be a path where someone can put up the wall and say "not good enough!"

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9 hours ago, Liam said:

Lot of people I've been a fan of, way back in the day, were using a mailing list, and maybe I'm embarrassing myself again, buy I just don't know what the basic premise is.. just ask anyone and everyone for their addresses?

There are no embarrassing questions - especially this one where there isn't an easy answer.

In terms of the basic premise that underlies everything, that one is easy...  give people something valuable.

I watch Casey because he's entertaining, and also has a strong personal philosophy that makes me question my own.  This is worth my time.  Peter McKinnon is also entertaining, and sometimes I learn something from him.  I watch Caleb Pike because I learn things.  I watch Wedding Film School and Kraig Adams because I learn things, plus they're entertaining.  I watch Juan Melara because I learn a crazy amount from every video he makes, even though his videos aren't particularly entertaining.  I watch Aliens Guide because it's funny as hell.

I love watching documentaries because I learn things about how the world works, I love watching foreign films because they give me an insight into other cultures or other periods in history.

Work out what you're selling, then get out there and find people that want that thing.

Gary Vaynerchuck says that people struggling to start a business should vlog because their journey to try and create something is actually more valuable than their business (because most businesses fail).  He's worth a look on YT if you haven't heard of him - super opinionated and hugely "go go go" motivational guy, but he doesn't mince words and he knows his shit, plus he's built a $100M social media marketing company so he knows a thing or two about how to succeed.

Ignore viral anything and all the clickbait BS - give something valuable to people and get out and tell people about it and you'll be fine.  but don't expect it to happen quickly.

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11 hours ago, Liam said:

I hate Casey so goddamn much

but you have to acknowledge that his nose is a triumph for toucans everywhere

seriously tho, i LIKE email mailing lists now

in the beforetime of the internet, EVERYONE did mailing lists bc there WAS no social media, and they got a bad rap... too much "spam", etc.

but today i really appreciate mailing lists that have something to say, sent out by my favorite artists, musicians, and political prisoners. good stuff in my inbox!! nom nom

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Haha, instA is the answer. It is also broken now but fuck email. I know we're you getting at, but it has to be mind blowing content for someone sharing or subscribing to you.

i have a fashion brand, it is the same struggle. First your content/product has to be ace/standout/crazy/cats. If that is not the case then why are you doing it? Like everybody is saying, get your shit out there and make it count. E.g. If I walk into a shop with my bag people say "wow nice bag, what is this" this is because I know what shop it is what other stuff they sell etc. get your audience right and they will hopefully get what you are up to. if they don't change product or audience. AND then, hustle man HUSTLE!!!! 

Adding to that, look at @eoshd yt channel roughly about 156 followers I think (sorry if it is 156k). He is starting also on a new platform. Adding knowledge banter reviews...etc to the channel will make it blow up the next year or so, at least I am hoping for Andrew.

Just get started and do stuff that counts to you and there is other wierd people out there that might think it's valuable to them.....you only need a handful of people on the mailing list, but you need the right people on it. Use a medium that people can share and like easily to build an audience....

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15 hours ago, Liam said:

Yeah, he's obviously really good at certain things.. or, building an audience.. and only that. But even the way he does that depresses me. I hate whining about things being a popularity contest, but I mean...

I stopped getting new followers on vimeo probably 4 films ago. Somehow fewer views etc with each new one...

I've gotta try instagram at least for promotion stuff, I guess, but it feels as hopeless as youtube really.. viral stuff can go super viral, but if you have nothing, an audience won't just appear.

I'm actually applying to school right now, but it's crazy, even trying to just learn more can be a path where someone can put up the wall and say "not good enough!"

Casey Neistat is so irrelevant to what you’re doing that he’s hardly worth mentioning... even though I disagree on your opinion of him. He’s a reality TV star selling himself and he’s very good at that. I admit that I’ll get sucked into a few episodes every now and then and follow him around Manhattan or whatever boring adventure he brings his audience along for.

Instagram is a game, you follow people while you post stuff. You like people’s work and they check out your work. It’s networking at your fingertips... in some ways it’s superficial and in a lot of ways, it works. I post some frame grabs every now and again but haven’t jumped in and exploited the medium yet.

One woman I follow started posting her story, really her journey about getting her film made and she created enough followers and interest that she just ran a successful crowdfunding campaign that’s going to pay for the next phase of her production.

So IG can work, but you have to play the game. It’s also pretty cool to see how many talented people there are in this world.

6 hours ago, kaylee said:

but you have to acknowledge that his nose is a triumph for toucans everywhere

seriously tho, i LIKE email mailing lists now

in the beforetime of the internet, EVERYONE did mailing lists bc there WAS no social media, and they got a bad rap... too much "spam", etc.

but today i really appreciate mailing lists that have something to say, sent out by my favorite artists, musicians, and political prisoners. good stuff in my inbox!! nom nom

Haha... you had me at toucan but I stayed for the nom nom.

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10 hours ago, kye said:

Work out what you're selling, then get out there and find people that want that thing.

THIS!!!

You either have the wrong content, or you are getting your content in front of the wrong eyeballs.

19 hours ago, Liam said:

It's over a hundred dollars a year, which could be fine if it's helpful, but I can't make heads or tails of what it's even supposed to do. If it helps me send emails, I'll look at it later.

Seriously??? Your not willing to shell out $100 a year on marketing / advertising???

I am not saying that email marketing is the BEST thing for you. But you need to familiarize yourself with the various marketing / advertising / outreach options and try and figure out which one is going to most effectively reach your target audience.

And you had BETTER have a good idea of your target audience. Otherwise, if you don't have some understanding of your target audience, then you are just digging yourself a whole.

Oh, and mail chimp has a free plan as well with up to 2,000 subscribers. That might not seem like many, but it will take you a LONG TIME to reach 2,000 subscribers to an email list.

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1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

h, and mail chimp has a free plan as well with up to 2,000 subscribers. That might not seem like many, but it will take you a LONG TIME to reach 2,000 subscribers to an email list.

I can’t say for sure but I think Liam is looking for some type of service that will find the subscribers? 

 @Liam have you explored Reddit or blogging?

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11 hours ago, kye said:

give people something valuable

 

11 hours ago, kye said:

Work out what you're selling, then get out there and find people that want that thing.

 

9 hours ago, hansel said:

it has to be mind blowing content

 

9 hours ago, hansel said:

get started and do stuff that counts to you and there is other wierd people out there that might think it's valuable to them

 

36 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

You either have the wrong content, or you are getting your content in front of the wrong eyeballs

 

36 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

you had BETTER have a good idea of your target audience

These all sound nice... I hope it's not crazy to ask if they actually mean anything.

I obviously like what I do, and I think I'm actually doing it. finished like 10 projects in 2 years, and started others, so I'm working.

not sure about knowing your target audience... do most authors know that they're writing for men age 21-49? Or do they take whoever shows up?

And how does it help me to know? Getting it to the right people is definitely my goal, but not a lot of filmmakers are discouraged from Vimeo, right? It's kind of a catch all. Are there actually niche options out there? Or is the thought that I'm probably not getting it to the right people just easier to handle, because it means I'm the one doing it wrong?

 

as for mailchimp... I mean there are countless things I could spend a hundred dollars a year on, and I will not do them all. Like I said, I just do not know how it's supposed to help me at this stage. Maybe it's just what I'm looking for, but it appears to be branding and tools for people with an audience (not me).

1 minute ago, mercer said:

I can’t say for sure but I think Liam is looking for some type of service that will find the subscribers? 

 @Liam have you explored Reddit or blogging?

I was mostly interested because of Adrian Tomine's mailing list for his comic that started in like 1991. I don't know how he found people, but I don't want something too like.. idk, fake. I guess there could be a service that makes email into another social platform where people scroll and see me on a list. wouldn't want that, since I'm already failing there.

My ORIGINAL question I guess was... You just ask everyone for their emails, or? Maybe if I did a local art show, I could ask for emails. And then they could tell their friends, and my products would have the signup...

 

I'm sort of looking at blogging... sounds like agony and could be another investment etc etc... interviews with other artists could be fun. Have you seen Eighth Grade? 1 view, 0 views, 0 views, 1 view... yeah, I don't know how that's supposed to work either before I'm already famous

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You Tube and Vimeo reach the most people in the world that might look at what you create. If you can't get traction on there with some kind of Blog I just don't see it happening anywhere, anyhow. You can't get anymore eyeballs looking at your stuff than on there. Instagram is more Young teenage girls than anything. Now if that is your audience go for it. Nobody gets famous on Facebook.

If you can't come out with something interesting at least once a week on You Tube, whether it is just you as a talking head, or a new video than it Ain't never going to happen. With all the cheap, pretty good video cameras out, there are 1000's videos a day made around the world, some shorts, that might be pretty damn good. You Have to be better than they are. Not saying you aren't, but you have to produce a great product, a great experience or it isn't going to work. It's a Whole new world out there now. Tons of competition now. It isn't for the meek.

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33 minutes ago, Liam said:

 

 

 

 

 

These all sound nice... I hope it's not crazy to ask if they actually mean anything.

I obviously like what I do, and I think I'm actually doing it. finished like 10 projects in 2 years, and started others, so I'm working.

not sure about knowing your target audience... do most authors know that they're writing for men age 21-49? Or do they take whoever shows up?

And how does it help me to know? Getting it to the right people is definitely my goal, but not a lot of filmmakers are discouraged from Vimeo, right? It's kind of a catch all. Are there actually niche options out there? Or is the thought that I'm probably not getting it to the right people just easier to handle, because it means I'm the one doing it wrong?

 

as for mailchimp... I mean there are countless things I could spend a hundred dollars a year on, and I will not do them all. Like I said, I just do not know how it's supposed to help me at this stage. Maybe it's just what I'm looking for, but it appears to be branding and tools for people with an audience (not me).

I was mostly interested because of Adrian Tomine's mailing list for his comic that started in like 1991. I don't know how he found people, but I don't want something too like.. idk, fake. I guess there could be a service that makes email into another social platform where people scroll and see me on a list. wouldn't want that, since I'm already failing there.

My ORIGINAL question I guess was... You just ask everyone for their emails, or? Maybe if I did a local art show, I could ask for emails. And then they could tell their friends, and my products would have the signup...

 

I'm sort of looking at blogging... sounds like agony and could be another investment etc etc... interviews with other artists could be fun. Have you seen Eighth Grade? 1 view, 0 views, 0 views, 1 view... yeah, I don't know how that's supposed to work either before I'm already famous

Idk, I’m probably not the right person to ask about this stuff. But stop worrying about looking fake or being contrite. You have a product you want people to see, so you have to sell yourself or promote yourself... it’s that simple... nobody else will do it for you. 

Start an IG account, if you don’t have one, and search for cartoonists or short films and network. There are so many talented artists on IG, so stop worrying about being fake or normal and put yourself out there if you want to be seen or heard.

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You Tube and Vimeo reach the most people in the world that might look at what you create. If you can't get traction on there with some kind of Blog I just don't see it happening anywhere, anyhow. You can't get anymore eyeballs looking at your stuff than on there. Instagram is more Young teenage girls than anything. Now if that is your audience go for it. Nobody gets famous on Facebook.

If you can't come out with something interesting at least once a week on You Tube, whether it is just you as a talking head, or a new video than it Ain't never going to happen. With all the cheap, pretty good video cameras out, there are 1000's videos a day made around the world, some shorts, that might be pretty damn good. You Have to be better than they are. Not saying you aren't, but you have to produce a great product, a great experience or it isn't going to work. It's a Whole new world out there now. Tons of competition now. It isn't for the meek.

I don’t know what IG pages you’re looking at but I don’t think I’ve ever come across any teenage girls on IG. I’m sure they’re there but it’s not the same platform it was when it started however many years ago. I would assume there are more than a billion people on IG.

And @webrunner5 Liam makes narrative short films and animations... I don’t think he will follow the YouTube path you’re talking about. As far as I know, he doesn’t want to be lifestyle vlogger or camera reviewer. 

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28 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You Tube and Vimeo reach the most people in the world that might look at what you create. If you can't get traction on there with some kind of Blog I just don't see it happening anywhere, anyhow. You can't get anymore eyeballs looking at your stuff than on there. Instagram is more Young teenage girls than anything. Now if that is your audience go for it. Nobody gets famous on Facebook.

If you can't come out with something interesting at least once a week on You Tube, whether it is just you as a talking head, or a new video than it Ain't never going to happen. With all the cheap, pretty good video cameras out, there are 1000's videos a day made around the world, some shorts, that might be pretty damn good. You Have to be better than they are. Not saying you aren't, but you have to produce a great product, a great experience or it isn't going to work. It's a Whole new world out there now. Tons of competition now. It isn't for the meek.

I would think if you can't find an audience on vimeo, you're totally normal, because vimeo is full. It doesn't have to mean anything about the quality of your content. I'm trying to say I want a route where I'm not competing at all. that's a real thing, but I think anyone who's done that has had to do it on their own... not use what they were told works by a mildly successful blogger etc

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