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Andrew Reid

Shooting 5K on the Panasonic GH5 with the new 'Open Gate' mode

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37 minutes ago, Vesku said:

5.2k 16:9 video would have better IQ at the same bitrate than down sampled 4.9k 4:3 which looses almost half the image data when cropping to 16:9.

No it wouldn't

It's a 5K 4:3 sensor

It's not a 16:9 sensor.

I don't know why you are going on about 5.2K anyway. 6K photo mode? No point using that in V2.0 firmware.

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Generally I frame the video when shooting and GH5 has so good stabilization that there is not so much need for post stab. In most cases I would prefer more resolution with 16:9 than reduced resolution and unnecessary pixels with 4:3. The heavily compressed video would be better for 16:9 if the camera would not waste bitrate for extra height of 4:3.  

In future I will have a computer playing 5.2k HEVC smoothly and the 16:9 5.2k video mode would also be sensible when 8k 16:9 screens will come. Much better than 4k. Panasonic should add 16:9 5.2k mode too because it is possible and the most obvious hi-res mode to have. It needs no down sampling, just cropping a little already existing 3:2 6k photo mode. Anamorphic is just an "extra" feature.

How about this open gate down sampled 4.99k 4:3 video. Has it more moire or aliasing compared to 1:1 sensor modes (6k photo)? GH5 down sampled 4k seems to have very little moire.

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1 hour ago, Vesku said:

Generally I frame the video when shooting and GH5 has so good stabilization that there is not so much need for post stab. In most cases I would prefer more resolution with 16:9 than reduced resolution and unnecessary pixels with 4:3. The heavily compressed video would be better for 16:9 if the camera would not waste bitrate for extra height of 4:3.  


The reduction is resolution is nothing 192 pixels or 3.7% of the width as you are almost at the maximum sensor readout. not to mention the cost of the  extra pixel height is negligible on the quality because its 4:2:0 sampling not 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 etc.

 

 


 

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@Andrew i am coming from samsung nx1 and am considering buying gh5 for the better codec + better low light + better slowmotion+ better in body stabilization. Question is, itțs worth the upgrade now that you tested the open gate future ? I am a bit afraid of the down sides of the smaller sensor compared to my nx1. I know the adapter + full frame lens will bring it closer to apsc, but the quality wonțt be the same as samsung nx1. Dunno about the DR in both cameras regarding film. For stills NX1 is a clear winner. So, is it an upgrade the GH5 with the new update? I know i should probably wait till the a7sIII will be out but i wonțt have the budget for it so it is out of the question for now. Thanks a lot for the replies.

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Hey Andrew, forum noob here! This feature is quite interesting because it seems to use the entirety of GH5's 5184 x 3888 sensor.

Now, I'm wondering whether using an 1.33x anamorphic adapter in 4:3 mode will give us a "wider" 16:9 footage (in addition to being 5K) than the internal 16:9 footage?

My logic being that the internal 16:9 is obtained by cropping the height of the 4:3 sensor whereas the "anamorphic" 16:9 will be obtained by squeezing a wider image onto the whole-ish 4:3 sensor.

4:3 example:

4992x3744.png.e7b997ac91533411e3f56286219921d9.png

 

"Internal" 16:9 example (same setup/subject distance):

5184x2916.thumb.png.dd9d5acc35b1775d9d247383d8a48a74.png

I'm I wrong? I really won't mind the lengthy transcode of the HEVC, long-GOP footage if it means I'll get a wider and higher resolution result without the black bars. I'm not a fan of 2.39:1 but I do like the wider FOV of anamorphic sans the perspective distortion that comes with ultrawides and I'd like to get something similar on 1.78:1 with the GH5 (speed booster is expensive).

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That's right you'd get higher resolution and a wider FOV by using 5K 4:3 mode with a 1.33x lens.

There aren't many truly sharp 1.33x lenses around though, especially not at fast apertures.

So that might limit your res.

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31 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Why not buy it, try it out, and if you're not happy, send it back?

Or better still, sell it on to me for a discount ;)

The fundamental problem you have really is what to do with the NX1 rather than should you trade it for a GH5.

It has still got a decent value because of how good it is but even amongst those who know that, its undeniable that its probably reached peak value. Every day that passes is going to diminish that further because people will be less and less inclined to buy into what isn't just a discontinued camera but a dead system. It's a real shame because it is a great piece of kit that will probably be churning out great images for years to come but as a secondhand proposition no one will fancy being the one left holding the baby when it does give up.

What hasn't helped that is just how good the GH5 is turning out to be. I suspect there are a number of people even on here who might have been thinking about taking a chance on picking up a used NX1 who have since succumbed to the charms of the GH5. As it is almost certainly only be video shooters (and only a niche of those) who would be after an NX1 now then that is your target market for selling it to dwindling further on a daily basis.

So I suppose the proposition you have now is to choose to keep the NX1 and keep enjoying it until it dies or cash out while you can before it becomes almost worthless.

In that sense, its not the NX1 vs the GH5 you have to decide between but its actually the NX1 vs the NX1.

If you do decide to cash out then its just a question of putting it into the best camera you can get for that money, which the GH5 is certainly looking to be.

If you are intent on holding out for the Sony then at least you'll have your NX1 invested in something who's value is diminishing slower.

 

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in Romania is not so easy to buy cameras and send them back if you're not happy. We're just not there yet. And renting could be an option. I tried one over a weekend but couldn't decide :( I  mean, the codec is really way better, it supports more post production. But i didn't have the lenses to really try it well so i don't know if the sensor is such a problem. For me a real upgrade would be a sony a7s3 with 10 bits and 4k 60p and the full frame sensor which probably will exist at some point but i won't have the budget for it. I asked for help, not to be silly, but maybe someone had the same problem and has an answer. Someone who had samsung nx1 and upgraded to gh5 and is will to share the ups and downs. Thank you anyway.

 

8 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Or better still, sell it on to me for a discount ;)

The fundamental problem you have really is what to do with the NX1 rather than should you trade it for a GH5.

It has still got a decent value because of how good it is but even amongst those who know that, its undeniable that its probably reached peak value. Every day that passes is going to diminish that further because people will be less and less inclined to buy into what isn't just a discontinued camera but a dead system. It's a real shame because it is a great piece of kit that will probably be churning out great images for years to come but as a secondhand proposition no one will fancy being the one left holding the baby when it does give up.

What hasn't helped that is just how good the GH5 is turning out to be. I suspect there are a number of people even on here who might have been thinking about taking a chance on picking up a used NX1 who have since succumbed to the charms of the GH5. As it is almost certainly only be video shooters (and only a niche of those) who would be after an NX1 now then that is your target market for selling it to dwindling further on a daily basis.

So I suppose the proposition you have now is to choose to keep the NX1 and keep enjoying it until it dies or cash out while you can before it becomes almost worthless.

In that sense, its not the NX1 vs the GH5 you have to decide between but its actually the NX1 vs the NX1.

If you do decide to cash out then its just a question of putting it into the best camera you can get for that money, which the GH5 is certainly looking to be.

If you are intent on holding out for the Sony then at least you'll have your NX1 invested in something who's value is diminishing slower.

 

you set the problem right. I really love my nx1 but it starts to draw me back with it limitations. Which are slow motion only available in 1080p and the quality is not up to the 4k resolution. And mostly the low light limitation, where 800 iso on nx1 is already a bit noisy compared to gh5 which is really noise free till 1600. Also the motion cadence and the in body stabilization are other strengths that i am missing on nx1. On the other hand the stills are at a different level on samsung nx1 and the bigger sensor helps a lot when you pair it to pro lenses which i already have. Tough decision.

And it is not about money as i paid really less for nx1, i would pay more for gh5. SO i don't see it as a trade. If i could wait and save for the A7s3 i would be the happiest person alive. BUt i am sure i wont have the budget for the body plus 2, 3 lenses,  (probably around 6k altogether)

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I would say if you want a A7s3 then just wait for it...you are offering both sides of the decision as to why or why not you should buy the GH5...just use your NX1 until you can get the Sony...how can any other member know, whether you should buy a GH5 or not...I bought one, and will certainly get another body...your needs will of course differ from mine!...your choice to make though.

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1 hour ago, Fritz Pierre said:

I would say if you want a A7s3 then just wait for it...you are offering both sides of the decision as to why or why not you should buy the GH5...just use your NX1 until you can get the Sony...how can any other member know, whether you should buy a GH5 or not...I bought one, and will certainly get another body...your needs will of course differ from mine!...your choice to make though.

you're right. was a silly question after all. What i was asking in my stupidity is : if gh5 is really an upgrade from samsung nx1 or not? image quality wise!

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@cojocaru27 This may not really answer your question, but there are a whole lot of things the GH5 offers - 4K 60p, anamorphic mode, dual card slots, a vast selection of lenses, including the Noktons and Veydras, ETC, IBIS, the ability to preview LUTs in camera - that can either affect the final result, increase flexibilty, convenience and reliability, enable you to visualize the image or just make shooting easier. I've never shot with the NX1, but I do own the X-T2: and even though I prefer the APS-C sensor, it stays at home for some of those very reasons. 

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32 minutes ago, cojocaru27 said:

gh5 is really an upgrade from samsung nx1 or not? image quality wise!

Depends on what you want from an image.

My thought is that people should consider that brands/sensors are sort of akin to the ancient art of choosing a film stock.

It's all pretty good these days, you just gotta decide what works for you in the context of your needs.  Artistic and financial.  

I must admit, I'm surprised that folks are still going in circles regarding this consideration of film production.  I guess for me, since it's all quite advanced in 2017, I just can't get excited enough about the sensor tech side to put those considerations as a top priority.  So much more important things to fret about.  I mean, like casting...holy shit....casting...  

Anyway, those things that jonpais is talking about with the GH5 are a more pragmatic consideration, but you probably know what you're wanting to accomplish.  

If it were me I'd just keep going with the NX1 (nice camera) unless you're doing run and gun that you really want or need IBIS'ed.

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