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G7 Internal Recording + HDMI out?


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1 hour ago, JazzBox said:

I slowly started thinking to record the audio on set: I have no problems for medium/close up indoor (I own some pics from my recording studio and the Rode micro boom). 

But how to achieve a decent sound when you record the establishing shot, the wide one? When the mic is far away from the actors the sound dramatically changes and it is... far and thin.

And also outdoor, with a shotgun everyone will notice we are filming and we want to be as fast and as invisible as we can.

I started to think to Lavalier: I own a Rode SmartLav+, it's ok for interview, but I don't know if it's good for narrative works. 

Also: my Zoom H5 will be unusable since it is too big to hide near a Lavalier. 

My other problem is that one of the characters it is not human, so we have to ADR it anyway and I don't want the sound is too different from its voice (made in studio like a voice over) and the sound of other actors in the room.

I have no budget, I can spend no more then 300 €: what do you suggest? A Rode NTG4 (or 4+) shotgun, 2 lavaliers? ADR everything? 

Thank you! :)

You will always have to synch some lines, or parts of lines.... Meaning you will be using lines, or parts of lines from different takes in different shots. Audio editing is a laborious task  

As you said, if you have a wide, establishing shot with dialogue, unless you go wireless... Which would probably be a good option for you BTW, you will have to edit lines from other takes to match sound fidelity. That's unavoidable.

If you want to make life easy on yourself, don't mix mics in a scene. Don't take one line of dialogue from the lav and then the next line of dialogue from a shotgun... It will be a pain to match their sound qualities in post.

Since you are personifying an inanimate object, or animal, you should definitely record that dialogue with the same mic the other actor's were recorded with. 

With all of that being said, if I were you, I would get a Rode and a deadcat, or get a couple small recorders... Even some higher end dictation recorders can be used because they are small, or the Little Darling recorders from JuicedLink, or the Tascam that IronFilm linked to, and get some lav mics... You can get a decent one for less than a hundred. I've used Azden lavs and the sound is good enough... They cost 25 dollars.

I am a fan of in camera audio. Mount a shotgun like the Rode Pro and boost the signal +20db, or if you have a preamp like a JuicedLink or use your zoom as a line in recorder and then get an extreme close up takes of every angle.

Audio sucks and is a craft of its own, so unless you hire a professional audio guy, you will be bastardizing it. If you have to bastardize it, make it as simple as possible. 

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thats why I got hired for the movie!!   I come from a pop video background for 20 years ,I always shoot with gels on my lights , the Director wanted a very modern bold stylised use of colour , he

Time ! thats why , shooting multi cam saves time and money and lets you get alot more setups done per day , I had 6 x G7's rigged up on Gini Rigs that I custom made , I had 2 rigs with Nikon 80-2

no you cant do both at once , its either or !!  I have brought this up at meetings with Panasonic as we all would like this feature , the G7 will not do this, I just shot a feature film with 6 x Panas

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

Since you are personifying an inanimate object, or animal, you should definitely record that dialogue with the same mic the other actor's were recorded with. 

With all of that being said, if I were you, I would get a Rode and a deadcat, or get a couple small recorders... Even some higher end dictation recorders can be used because they are small, or the Little Darling recorders from JuicedLink, or the Tascam that IronFilm linked to, and get some lav mics... You can get a decent one for less than a hundred. I've used Azden lavs and the sound is good enough... They cost 25 dollars.

The inanimate object is 99% of the time indoor, so I could use the normal condenser pencil with the Zoom H5.

Do you think the SmartLav+ could be useful for outdoor instead of the shotgun?
Or which Rode Pro do you think is ok for that work (and maybe for indoor also, just to not change sound from indoor to outdoor)?

I run a recording studio and I do a lot of voice over, I sometimes recorded ADR for some shorts, but they always was like 3 minutes shorts with maybe 1 minutes of dialogues... 
Audio on set is something completely different, a really difficult task!

Thank you! :) 

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SmartLav+ is just a lav. Not wireless. So you can't monitor.

RODE makes many different microphones, all at a low price. As they target the low end.

 

The best one is the NTG3.

 

I have the NTG2 which is much worse. I've thought if I'd do it again I might get the MKE600 instead? Don't know much about the NTG4 but seems to just be a slightly improved NTG2

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21 hours ago, kaylee said:

@mercer thank you thats very helpful

tbh im the actor with the most dialogue, and the idea of just trying to match my voice cadence without using anything visual seems way easier to me.... but idk ive never really tried to do it lol

what i hate is watching something and having particular lines of dialogue stand out as adr – like in the middle of a conversation – where they dont fit in. i dont think audiences notice that but i do

It's a great idea to cast yourself in your movie... You work cheap and you know you will always make the call. 

I am a slow burn, horror/thriller writer/director so there isn't a ton of dialogue in my scripts to begin with, so I am not too worried about it.

In the short I am working on now, it is a mix of traditional narrative and POV camcorder footage... So most of the dialogue is in the camcorder footage, which is supposed to sound like audio being recorded through... You guessed it... A camcorder... So I will be recording all of that dialogue in camera with the Rode VideoMic Pro. I am looking at it how I approach lighting... Where is the light coming from... Is it a lamp? Why is there a bright light in the actor's face in the middle of the night in the dark woods? I hate that! So, I want to look at sound in a similar way, I believe the camera is a character in a movie. It doesn't have a name or a backstory, but it has a POV... Usually mine. So, if I am shooting a wide establishing shot, why would I hear the actor's conversation as if I was doing a close up?

I read an article awhile back that discussed how online journalists record audio. And they do all of the interviews (dialogue) with a mono microphone and then all of background sound (foley) with a stereo microphone. With a small, pocket recorder + lavalier microphone you can capture your dialogue with a mono lavalier microphone and then plug a stereo microphone into your camera to get your foley. Again it's not the perfect solution, but for run & gun projects it really makes sense to me. 

As for movies that are ADRd, yeah I do not get when they just ADR one line in a scene, it is so obvious, especially in no to low budget indie films, but awesome in no to low budget Kung Fu Theatre. 

21 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Plus there is a fair amount of technical skill in operating a boom pole well, which nearly all "friends holding a boom pole into a Zoom" don't have.

"Time" is still a crucial part of a low/no budget film. 
If anything... even more precious than on big budget films!
As you can't just pay people to get more of their time. There is only so much of people's time you can ask them to give up for free (or even for very low pay). Thus one of the pitfalls I see of ADR on low/no budget productions is that you run out of "time" with actors to get them back to do ADR. As the logistics of herding cats is not easy.

I wish I could "like" this twice. 

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This seems like decent time to ask this.. I forget what the technique is called where you have two mono audio channels recording, set at different levels, to have a back up if one of them clips, like increase the dynamic range of the audio. Without the name it was impossible to research how to do it. Feel like that would be an awesome tool to get something usable on set.

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4 minutes ago, Liam said:

This seems like decent time to ask this.. I forget what the technique is called where you have two mono audio channels recording, set at different levels, to have a back up if one of them clips, like increase the dynamic range of the audio. Without the name it was impossible to research how to do it. Feel like that would be an awesome tool to get something usable on set.

Is it called "ghosting?" Lol. Probably not because I just made that up.

I have never heard of this technique, but it sounds like a really good idea!

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6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

SmartLav+ is just a lav. Not wireless. So you can't monitor.

RODE makes many different microphones, all at a low price. As they target the low end.

 

The best one is the NTG3.

 

I have the NTG2 which is much worse. I've thought if I'd do it again I might get the MKE600 instead? Don't know much about the NTG4 but seems to just be a slightly improved NTG2

Thank you :)

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10 hours ago, mercer said:

It's a great idea to cast yourself in your movie... You work cheap and you know you will always make the call. 

 

I was DoP for part of this:

The director was himself one of the key leads! Good idea really, as it was a long slog. 5yrs in the making!

10 hours ago, Liam said:

This seems like decent time to ask this.. I forget what the technique is called where you have two mono audio channels recording, set at different levels, to have a back up if one of them clips, like increase the dynamic range of the audio. Without the name it was impossible to research how to do it. Feel like that would be an awesome tool to get something usable on set.

My Tascam DR60D has this feature. 
"Safety track"

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16 hours ago, Liam said:

This seems like decent time to ask this.. I forget what the technique is called where you have two mono audio channels recording, set at different levels, to have a back up if one of them clips, like increase the dynamic range of the audio. Without the name it was impossible to research how to do it. Feel like that would be an awesome tool to get something usable on set.

You basically record a 'safety track' as backup of the same recording, at about 10dB lower that the main one. So if there is some popping as a consequence of a surge in sound by a talent or anything else, you have a backup, at a lower dB. It can be done with almost all dual sound recorders (whether separate channels, or mono). Like with the Shure LensHopper VP83f. You can record the 2nd sound (the one on the MicroSD Card) at 10dB lower, to have as a Safety Track. It is there on most sound recorders, that have more than one channel, or record into more that one place (camera and recorder etc).

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I was DoP for part of this:

The director was himself one of the key leads! Good idea really, as it was a long slog. 5yrs in the making!

Wow !!! I really like the trailer. Looks like a super crazy and entertaining low budget Indie. When is it out? Also, will it have a world-wide release?

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12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

btw, I'd love to play a game of "guess the camera"... what do people think "This Giant Papier-Mâché Boulder Is Actually Really Heavy" was shot with?

Hey, why don´t you post it in the classic EOSHD GuessTheCamera fashion in a separate thread. It´s totally worth it! Hope your camera history

won´t be spoiling the guessing pleasure though:)

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On 03/08/2016 at 10:34 AM, Liam said:

This seems like decent time to ask this.. I forget what the technique is called where you have two mono audio channels recording, set at different levels, to have a back up if one of them clips, like increase the dynamic range of the audio. Without the name it was impossible to research how to do it. Feel like that would be an awesome tool to get something usable on set.

Also seen this referred to as audio bracketing

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10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Hey, why don´t you post it in the classic EOSHD GuessTheCamera fashion in a separate thread. It´s totally worth it! Hope your camera history

won´t be spoiling the guessing pleasure though:)

Shall do so soon. I think I've mentioned once or twice on this forum what it was shot with but hopefully nobody remembers!

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