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Beholder DS1 Thoughts


DBounce
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I'm pretty sure I read or saw in a review video that the DS-1 does have an inverted mode. Of course I couldn't find what I was thinking of, but I did find a pic of someone using it in inverted mode on the owldolly website:

http://www.owldolly.com/blogs/news/81089028-ds1-and-ms1-stock-update-sony-a7sii-with-ds1-review-video

Maybe shoot them an email asking how.

The DS1 does do intervened mode for sure, I think he was just saying that with his camera body + PID settings the camera is not stable inverted.  PID tuning should make it work.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-14SWbgx0

Actually I am hoping that the auto PID tune feature of the 32bit board/GUI will really help with different body/lens combos.  The reason I gave up on the Nebula4000 Lite was the pure pain of PID tuning the light GM1+12mm ...

 

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Isn't that the one Dave Dugdale tried and found a little too clunky as well? I remember him ultimately going with the Pilotfly H1.

Unfortunately the folks at FilmPower don't really know how to market their Nebula 4200 PRO. It looked rather interesting... but I have serious question marks with how they run things. The 4000 seemed far from ideal as well, although admittedly was the one to really get this snowball rolling.

Have you guys seen the Feiyu MX? Now that might be pretty sweet. Though... with that one, the load factor really seems an issue. Guess you can't have everything.

Guess if I had to go for something now it would probably be the http://www.sturdyshots.com/sturdy2014/sturdyflight-2/ . I like the way it's set up and JazzBox seems to really like it.

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Isn't that the one Dave Dugdale tried and found a little too clunky as well? I remember him ultimately going with the Pilotfly H1.

Unfortunately the folks at FilmPower don't really know how to market their Nebula 4200 PRO. It looked rather interesting... but I have serious question marks with how they run things. The 4000 seemed far from ideal as well, although admittedly was the one to really get this snowball rolling.

Have you guys seen the Feiyu MX? Now that might be pretty sweet. Though... with that one, the load factor really seems an issue. Guess you can't have everything.

Guess if I had to go for something now it would probably be the http://www.sturdyshots.com/sturdy2014/sturdyflight-2/ . I like the way it's set up and JazzBox seems to really like it.

Dave tried the H1+ and the Came-TV Single which is quite big.

Speaking of the Sturdyflight, it's ugly as hell, but the videos on their web site are the best I've seen so far. Period.

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I've been interested in a gimbal for a while. The pilotfly H1+ is a similar price but holds less weight. Approx 1.3kg if I recall. The Pilotfly is also much lighter and a little more compact. However, balancing adjustments are made with an allen key rather than the finger tightners with the Beholder and the pilotfly also looks like it needs a fair bit more setting up and fiddling on the computer to get the settings right...... Tests on the pilotfly also show a bit of funny behaviour now and again, a few jitters and loss of level horizon.

 

All have a place if you can live with their peculiarities.

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After getting the GH4 + 12-35 f2.8 working on the DS1 (out of the box) I wanted to setup something lighter to see how it handles smaller cameras.

When I am shooting a live event (i.e. weddings) I want to use the DS1 with my GX7 + 12mm f2.0 so I can just leave it on the gimbal all day and use my GH4 for my main cam.  With this in mind I set out to see if I could get this pair to balance and perform well on the DS1.

I had little trouble balancing the pair (the GM1 + 12mm was just too tiny to really balance well) but the default profiles had way too much power for such a small combo.  Even profile 3 and 4 which come setup for smaller combos had the shakes pretty bad.  So I decided to try the auto tune ability of the 32b alexmos board as shown here by Emm:

 

So I set the gimbal up on a sturdy tripod and stating with the profile 3 power settings I auto tuned the PID for each axis alone, twice (took about 15 mintues).  Much to my surprise when I removed the gimbal and tested it it worked really well with this lighter setup.  I then updated profile 3 and 4 to use then new PID settings.  

Now I can fly the GH4 + 12-35mm or GX7 + 12mm with a quick rebalance and a simple profile change.  

I plan on shooting the GH4 + 12-35mm over the holidays and I will report back with some actual footage early next year.

Thanks,

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Now I can fly the GH4 + 12-35mm or GX7 + 12mm with a quick rebalance and a simple profile change.  

I plan on shooting the GH4 + 12-35mm over the holidays and I will report back with some actual footage early next year.

Thanks,

 

Hi, can you post screenshot of pids and motor configuration fot gx7?

Can't use this gimbal fot g7+12-35

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/7/2015 at 1:41 PM, DBounce said:

So here is the long and short of it. The Beholder DS1 is heavy. It can get some very smooth shots, but you will be challenged to keep the shot on target for more than a very short while due to the weight. Additionally, I noticed something unexpected, certain movements can cause the unit to freak out. This results in a type of fast micro-jitters, that will appear as jerky image artifacting. 

I wanted this unit to work smoothly. I do not know if this behavior is normal or if the unit is defective. But I can tell you normal handheld seems more pleasing to my eyes, despite being less smooth. Normal handheld just seems more organic. 

 

Mine freaks out quite often and ruins longer shots.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've had a DS1 for a couple of months now and it's been very solid. Any problems I've had have been from me trying to cut corners on pre-balancing it. As long as I properly balance it, everything is fine. The only other issues I've had are from not knowing what is happening with it due to the manual not being clear. So, here's some tips on the DS1:

* It starts up in follow mode.

* One button press and you will hear a tone. Now it's in lock mode. (The manual is clear on these two modes).

* Another quick press, gets you a tone and you're back in follow mode.

* To go into half-follow mode requires a two second press. Confusingly, it doesn't give you a tone when you do this.

* To add to the confusion, a five second button press completely disables the joystick. Also no tone. The manual doesn't mention this at all. I imagine that after improper balancing, this undocumented feature causes the most customer confusion.

* Invert mode is easily accessed, just hold the DS1 upside down. You don't even have to turn it off! 

* They don't advertise the DS1 as water proof or resistant, but I've read some people think it is because the wiring is concealed under foam. WRONG! If you carefully look at the DS1 under sunlight you can see the copper wire windings in the motor housings through the gap between pieces. So don't believe the people tag think t may be water resistant.

* I built a double handle rig for it with a couple 15mm rods, two handles and a mounting plate in the middle. That's about another $60 of hardware. It's great for holding the DS1 for longer periods.

I'm happy with my DS1. I got it to work with my NX1, 16-50 S lens combo which is heavy. It does fine. The only problem is that the 16-50 S lens is so heavy that the NX1 has to sit back on the plate very far. This means your tilt range is very limited and that you won't be using any focal lengths longer than 16mm. That's obviously no fault of the DS1.

Here's a couple sample shots where I attached the DS1 to a monopod and used it as a jib (not with the 16-50 S lens):

 

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9 hours ago, NX1user said:

I've had a DS1 for a couple of months now and it's been very solid. Any problems I've had have been from me trying to cut corners on pre-balancing it. As long as I properly balance it, everything is fine. The only other issues I've had are from not knowing what is happening with it due to the manual not being clear. So, here's some tips on the DS1:

* It starts up in follow mode.

* One button press and you will hear a tone. Now it's in lock mode. (The manual is clear on these two modes).

* Another quick press, gets you a tone and you're back in follow mode.

* To go into half-follow mode requires a two second press. Confusingly, it doesn't give you a tone when you do this.

* To add to the confusion, a five second button press completely disables the joystick. Also no tone. The manual doesn't mention this at all. I imagine that after improper balancing, this undocumented feature causes the most customer confusion.

* Invert mode is easily accessed, just hold the DS1 upside down. You don't even have to turn it off! 

* They don't advertise the DS1 as water proof or resistant, but I've read some people think it is because the wiring is concealed under foam. WRONG! If you carefully look at the DS1 under sunlight you can see the copper wire windings in the motor housings through the gap between pieces. So don't believe the people tag think t may be water resistant.

* I built a double handle rig for it with a couple 15mm rods, two handles and a mounting plate in the middle. That's about another $60 of hardware. It's great for holding the DS1 for longer periods.

I'm happy with my DS1. I got it to work with my NX1, 16-50 S lens combo which is heavy. It does fine. The only problem is that the 16-50 S lens is so heavy that the NX1 has to sit back on the plate very far. This means your tilt range is very limited and that you won't be using any focal lengths longer than 16mm. That's obviously no fault of the DS1.

Here's a couple sample shots where I attached the DS1 to a monopod and used it as a jib (not with the 16-50 S lens):

 

THIS POST RIGHT HERE.

I have a DS1 too and it is AMAZEBALLS.

But listen folks - you DO have to LEARN how to use it. You have to learn weighting. If you're getting vibrations that almost always means your motors are set TOO STRONG for your current camera weight.

You have to learn to balance it, to calibrate it, to custom tune the motor power and other settings for YOUR exact camera weight, and COME ON...you can't just abruptly swing it any radical direction you want and expect it to be magically able to handle that.

Considering what you get for the money - this thing is absotively posilutely AMAZING.

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11 hours ago, NX1user said:

I've had a DS1 for a couple of months now and it's been very solid. Any problems I've had have been from me trying to cut corners on pre-balancing it. As long as I properly balance it, everything is fine. The only other issues I've had are from not knowing what is happening with it due to the manual not being clear. So, here's some tips on the DS1

Extremely valuable, thx! Haven't received mine yet, it is on the way...
Guess I will rather use it with the NX1 + 16mm/30mm pancake. Me thinks that the 16-50mm S is more for handholding (with OIS) or even better with a monopod.

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6 hours ago, Mars said:

Extremely valuable, thx! Haven't received mine yet, it is on the way...
Guess I will rather use it with the NX1 + 16mm/30mm pancake. Me thinks that the 16-50mm S is more for handholding (with OIS) or even better with a monopod.

It can handle the 16-50 S fine, like if you want to walk with it, or stabilize a shot form inside a moving car. And it can tilt with the S lens, you just won't be able to do that fake jib shot. But with either of those primes, you can do whatever you can dream up.

8 hours ago, DPStewart said:

THIS POST RIGHT HERE.

I have a DS1 too and it is AMAZEBALLS.

But listen folks - you DO have to LEARN how to use it. You have to learn weighting. If you're getting vibrations that almost always means your motors are set TOO STRONG for your current camera weight.

You have to learn to balance it, to calibrate it, to custom tune the motor power and other settings for YOUR exact camera weight, and COME ON...you can't just abruptly swing it any radical direction you want and expect it to be magically able to handle that.

Considering what you get for the money - this thing is absotively posilutely AMAZING.

Exactly, it's takes time to balance it properly and it takes practice using it. You can put your camera on Auto mode and get okay results or you can learn how to use it and practice with it to get great results. Same with the stabilizer.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 29.2.2016 at 11:48 PM, NX1user said:

* Invert mode is easily accessed, just hold the DS1 upside down. You don't even have to turn it off! 

Here's a couple sample shots where I attached the DS1 to a monopod and used it as a jib (not with the 16-50 S lens):

Great post! Couple of questions: which monopod are you using in that setup? About the invert mode, can you do that while filming or does it go nuts then? E.g. can i start it in inverted mode, hold it out of the window of a car getting the low profile shot, bring it up and invert it back to normal mode while shooting? Or does it look like shit then?

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