solovetski

I think there are three things going on.  
1) People can't colour grade and they're trying to buy their way out of learning.  
As Resolve has grown in popularity the number of people that got access to a colour-managed workflow or colour space transformations has grown, and the number of people that can get the look they want from whatever camera they are using has also increased.
2) People don't remember what film looks like.
The number of "filmic" images that look nothing like film has gradually turned from a trickle to a vast deluge, to the point now that many people trying to get the look of film may have never seen it, or wouldn't recognise it even if it showed up with the film-strip not yet cropped out.  Over the last year or so I've been rewatching older movies and TV shows shot on film, from back when this was how all TV and movies were shot, and at times I've watched several hours of film a day for weeks or months straight.  Most so-called "filmic" content online looks nothing like film, in practically any way.  It does, however, remind me a lot of 4K GoPro footage, but with 15 times the dynamic range of both a GoPro and most film processes.
3) People have changed what they like.
As time goes on, "cinematic" looks more and more like video every day.  The so-called "cinematic" videos that people like, speak fondly of, share, and aspire to, all look nothing like what cinema actually looks like.  I lost count of the number of times I argued online about sharpness and resolution and depth of field and colour science and colour grading and began to question myself in the face of almost universal online opposition.... then I'd go see a movie and I'd be reminded that I was right and everyone else was blind, has stopped going to the cinema, is full of shit, or all of the above.

I'm fed up with Atomos, I wasted a huge amount of time doing tests for them for the stuttering issue in ProRes RAW. They didn't even try to replicate it. I reported the problem at the 8th of February, since then I provided tons of test material. And where are we now? They still think it's my unit, or my SSD or my HDMI cable even when I told them I tested with multiple units, multiple cables and SSDs. Unbelievable.
In the meantime some other guy asked BlackMagic about the same issue (so apparently this is related the the X-H2s), and they sent it to their engineering team right away, they reproduced it and notified Fujifilm about it. HUGE difference between the two supports. Seriously, even Fuji is better than Atomos, because they don't reply at all, so you won't waste your time with them 🙂

After watching at @Andrew Reid's entertaining new YouTube video discussing m4/3, and more specifically, the GH6, I decided to look for some videos on YouTube and Vimeo. Strangely, I had a hard time finding many videos. I am mostly interested in the internal ProRes features of the camera, especially in 1080p and DCI-4K. 5.7K is not really something I would need right now.
To my surprise, I had a real hard time finding many samples. The lion's share of the videos were ProRes Raw samples, which look very nice, it's just not what I find intriguing about the camera.
I know times have changed and with that interests have as well, but when I saw a c-mount lens attached to Andrew's GH6, I was dying to see some footage of it. And I thought there would be a bunch of samples on YouTube of people experimenting with different optics on the most advanced m4/3 camera ever made...
But nope.
Obviously, a lot of videographers/filmmakers have moved on from m4/3 to the greener pastures of FF. Being a FF shooter, I understand the appeal, but I still find it sad.
So that brings me back to the title of my post... what's the deal with the GH6?
I heard there were some issues with pink streaking... has that been solved or has it been discovered why it happens?
With all that said, are there any good or creative videos floating around? Have the Nick Driftwood's or anamorphic shooters moved on from GH cameras?
I haven't owned a Panasonic camera in a while, but I really enjoyed the ones I have owned/used and I find it sad that the interest is waning.
@Andrew Reid can you tell me your experience shooting c-mounts/s16 lenses with it? Do you have any samples you would share?

I analyzed the raw data in the DNG converted from ProRes RAW and now I know exactly how it's messed up.
I adjusted my tool and I think I have a working fix now. It fixes the raw data itself, so the result will be perfect in every software that reads DNG.
Before (see the broken line in the middle):

After:

 
I'm still testing my tool, it can read 12/16bit DNG, uncompressed, or lossless compressed, the lossy formats are not supported. It uses multiple threads, on my recent i7 laptop it converts with 25-35fps.
It's a pain to convert twice but at least I got it working, and learned a bit of C++ on the way.
If only I could fix the framerate issue as well, but no chance for that.

im unemployed, check out my reel!
https://vimeo.com/797642822

It's more than just a legacy thing. Canon & Nikon at the DSLR height really took care of their customers with loyalty programs, pro services etc. For major sporting events they have their infamous stockpile rooms available to sponsored photogs:

 
Canon I feel go a step further and since they have the cine line offer services at their Burbank facility in LA. Here in Paris, if I have an issue I can call and meet someone. Nikon used to have a walk-in office Boulevard Beaumarchais, as well as the Nikon School. They do have Nikon Plaza now in the 6ème, pretty cool location too with interesting events and of course the Nikon Film Festival which has become a huge thing in France.
Leica are on a similar but different path. Much more intimate. You have official boutiques in every major city. The staff there are extremely knowledgeable and passionate and every shop has their own certified Leica engineer in his white lab coat. Its not just for show as he will fix your camera on the spot. It's basically the traditional experience you'd get at a high-end watchmaker or hand tailor.

This type of service to me is invaluable and definitely builds a human connection with the company and hence, loyalty.
Sony I'm afraid has nothing of the sort AFAIK. You have an issue, you file a ticket online and have to send the camera/lens back to some warehouse in the Netherlands, if they even accept your claim (I've had mine rejected, no dispute possible).
Imaging is just a fraction of their other core businesses. What they have been very strong at, is social media presence, especially YouTube. They keep converting influencers by basically buying them out, luring them to exotic locations for camera releases and then making deals with them. Its fair business I guess but a little disheartening. I've had several Canon shooters I follow switch overnight, no real explanation.
Anyways, I am a Sony shooter. Not really by choice but because the industry basically demands it. They make good products no doubt, lousy policies though. Its strictly business to them, zero customer care. So yeah, loyalty wise its no surprise people dip in & out with them. My $0.02c.

I still…even with the bmpcc4k and R5 8k raw haven’t be able to replicate this look and motion from 5D3 Raw.
 
 

Sony not offering firmware updates doesn’t bother me. I use Lumix cameras.
But being serious, I have never purchased a camera based on a promise of what it might or will be at some point in the future. I will buy it (or not) based on merit with what it comes with.
If something is updated with something I find useful, then that is a bonus, but not an expectation.
I’d be very happy with a pair of FX30’s plus a single A7V straight out of their boxes.

Leadership position syndrome. Sony have become the new Canon. Little to No firmware upgrades. Heavy segmentation. Paper spec cameras that overheat. Zero regards towards criticism. 
That being I always tell people, buy a camera (or any digital product) for what it can do today. Don't expect added specs down the line, you're most likely setting yourself up for disappointment. 

I own A7S3. There have been no major updates for this camera in a fucking eternity! Now they release ZV-E1 which has the same sensor and processor (according to Gerald) and every a7S3 owner is obviously pissed off. Its got so many new features that we all want but not going to get, cos SONY IS... I really dont know, what is their reason to justify this obnoxious attiude. Do they want to simply increase sales a tiny bit by doing it, in exchange of a major reputation damage? What are they thinking? Maybe we need to start an online petition, ah? There are a ton of videos on youtube complaining about it over and over again, Philip Bloom did a video, Gerald adressed it, in the comments people are raged, but still nothing. Sony is not adressing, not talking about it, not giving any timeline of new firmware updates, they are completely silent on the subject. 
Maybe Andrew can interview them and ask that question directly? WTF is going on? That would be nice. I dont understand why a company would create such a terrible case in the first place. The loayalty and attitude of your fanbase and community is extremly important espescially nowdays, when fewer and fewer ppl by cameras. For me it became a substantial reason to even think about switching. I am looking at Panasonic - they are very generous with their firmware and camera support for years. Now they have PDAF, they have the best IBIS in town, I just want them to make o compact (not a huge 1kg monster), affordable camera that has FF 4k60p and might seriosly consider switching. 

..this is simply not true. ZV-E1 is 2699€. That's only about 30% cheaper. and you are not getting the mechanical shutter or the full IBIS. or the passive cooling. and you are losing a lot on the outside starting with the EVF (which is useful for video too in bright daylight). and in the end the high-frame rate and chunky codecs end up unusable because of overheating. all you are really benefitting from that sensor is high ISO and low RS. All the rest is crippled.
Even all the cool AI features end up ruining the IQ because the 1:1 4K sensor can't oversample. A shameful "cinematic mode". Zero vertical shooting options. Piss poor mobile communication. Really this is what you applaud? This is the best Sony can come up with for this market?
No competition? So you mean to tell me "VLogging" can only be done on a "ZV" camera? 
Sorry I find that a bit ridiculous. I follow a few "vloggers" and none use a ZV camera.
The pre-existing ZV lineup is pretty awful too.
No I'm not the target but I know people that are and they wouldn't touch this camera with a 6-foot selfie pole.
To me they got everything wrong with this cam. Its all hype and fluff. Basically a tourist trap for hype beasts.
 

I absolutely think mine is the best purchase that I have made in a long time. I can't speak to MF lenses, I don't have any MF EF mount lenses; but I have not had any issues with EF lenses set to MF via the switch on the lens. The only IBIS issue I have had so far is I had to turn off the horizon leveling feature when using the R7 on a gimbal; otherwise the horizon slowly rocks from side to side. Also, the IBIS wobble is pretty bad around 24mm and wider but I try to stay 35mm and longer when filming people anyway so this doesn't really bother me.
The only other issue I have with my R7 is sometimes the record button won't stop or start recording when in video mode. I either have to press it a few times or I have to hit the button on the touch screen; this mainly affects stopping a recording but a few times it has refused to start recording as well. I think it has something to do with coming out of standby or the power saving mode but I haven't tried to figure it out; possibly assigning the shutter button to start/stop recording could fix it.
As far as overheating, it does great in that department so far. When set to 4KHQ @ 30FPS after about an hour of continuous recording the overheat countdown display will appear but as soon as you set it to line skipped it immediately counts back up and disappears. 
IMO the R7 is actually superior to the R5 in almost every way except resolution and of course its not FF. It handles heat better, the IBIS is better, battery life is better, hybrid hotshoe so audio is better, and cheaper dual SD slots so storage is also better. The only thing that the R5 is better at that I care about is lowlight since the R5 has the dual native ISO option. I could probably level the playing field there as well with a speedbooster but haven't shot much lowlight lately.
I know everyone is going to shout from the top of their lungs that the R5 has a FF sensor so it has to be better, but personally I couldn't care less about sensor size, 8K, RAW, the pixel peeping level of IQ improvements because the R5 downsamples from 8K, or the shallower DOF for a given focal length.
To me personally, the R7 as a 50/50 hybrid camera has no equal in Canon's lineup except possibly the R6II. I combined the R7 with the Meike RF to EF mount vND adapter and now have what I consider as close to perfect as currently possible for a hybrid photo/video event camera. The R7 is definitely not perfect by any means, and I still consider most of my negative findings to still hold true, but thanks to what the R7 does provide I can now shoot entire events and many other types of projects with a single camera.
The thumbwheel around the joystick has really grown on me, it is so convenient right under the thumb and with the physical photo/video/power switch which is also right under your thumb, I can power on the camera, take a few images, switch to a few video clips and power it off all within a few seconds without ever taking my hands off the camera; so ergonomically for hybrid work I also consider the R7 superior to the R5 (which has no dedicated video switch).
Color wise, it matches up perfectly with the R5 and C70 if all three are set to CLOG3, and from there I just drop it into Davinci Resolve and use managed color.

Probably the most honest review, he got the camera to overheat on his couch while just menu diving and it overheat in FIVE minutes in 4K60p while shooting outdoors in non summer Florida:
 
Its expected in June so well after all the reviews will be out. 

At the risk of going off topic, I also remember when on video forums people would post videos that they had made!
It's the same everywhere else. On FB groups people post pics of their setup rather than something that they shot with it.
By the way I think it's worth pointing out that the original post of this topic was something along the lines of "does 14bit give noticeably better colour?". It's a perfectly valid question or talking point for discussion about one aspect of image quality, and has nothing whatsoever to do with lighting, story, frosted glass or frosted flakes or whatever somebody had for their breakfast... So to veer off into those topics is to miss the point of this thread.
Now, here's a video! This is the last project I shot on the 5D3. Hope you like slow cinema!
 

Honestly, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
I am just a hobbyist who has been using a 5D Mark III with 1080p ML Raw for the past 5-6 years as I attempt to make a few short films in my spare time. I'm hardly chasing cameras. I picked up a Sigma FP a few months ago, on a whim, and I like it. It has a nice image, I can't say for sure that it's a better image than the 5D though. I assumed the 14bit color from the 5D may be evening out the playing field, but what do I know... as I said... I'm not a professional like you guys are.
I've always been a writer first, so story is the most important thing to me, but I'm not delusional enough to think I am going to sell a screenplay or make a film that will have any impact on anything. I enjoy doing it, though and I suppose there are worse things I could spend my money on.
Next year I may buy a camcorder, making movies was a lot more fun back when camcorders were the only option for zero budget filmmakers.
I will end with this, though. Since we're all being so brutally honest... none of these cameras look that good. If you're shooting with a P4K and a Sigma zoom, or a 5D3 with ML Raw... they all look amateurish. So when you guys attack other people for their choices... remember your choices probably look questionable as well.
Then again, I've never seen any of your work, so maybe you guy's are artistic geniuses, but how could anyone know... only a few people share any of their work on this forum and when they do, the posts about the next best camera gets way more attention...
Good luck to you. 

I think there are better cameras out there for what this camera is marketed for, but for those who've spent the last several years watching YouTubers gush about the A7Siii or the FX3 but couldn't afford one, I think this will be popular with them. I think we forget that the "famous" YouTubers are but a small fraction of those trying to create successful YouTube channels. There are millions of people on there trying to become the next big YouTuber but with limited resources. This is a camera that will probably appeal to them. They were probably ready to whip their credit cards out the second every reviewer said "it's like a A7Siii but for half the price."

eh, if you're rolling for hours (days even!) covering some random small business conference in a hotel that's only going to be put on YT (or perhaps even only used internally) then 8bit is perfectly fine. 

The obsession with IQ is getting out of hand here, 10bit, 12 bit, 14 bit seems to be negligible from the tests.  Story, set design, lighting, sound, music, framing, lenses, etc. are more important then bit depth imo. Possession of Hannah grace 8bit 422(a7sii), 8bit 422 knock knock (1dc) and others released in festivals, streaming platforms proves that.  Obviously people are biased and want the best possible and that’s great but 14 bit image isn’t everything to the overall average audience (same with 8k).  All things subjective, filmmakers can shoot with whatever they want.

Blind tests aren't of much use. The zakuto blind tests says that a GH1 and 35mm film are equal. So why didn't camera development stop there? It would indicate 10 bit log, 4k, high bitrate, and anything beyond 8 stops of dynamic range, doesn't really matter. Cameras aren't developed or sold on blind tests. I don't think any professional is choosing a camera based on blind tests either. They have certainly offered no use to me.

You can argue IQ has nothing to do with making a pleasing looking image. That is definitely true in many ways. But it has nothing to do with marketing. You can say that marketing is all bullshit. I'd agree with that. 8k is useless for 99% of people yet it is a great buzzword for marketing. You are saying though that 14 bit recording is useless and blind tests somehow prove this.

If you are simply trying to say that 14 bit isn't marketable, that could be true. I am not a marketing specialist.  But camera companies don't use blind tests to market or else they would all be out of business.

In my experience when you actually use a camera on production and work with it through post, then you see a difference. There isn't really much debate there. Can a film look good that isn't shot on a cinema camera? Yes of course. But cameras like ARRI and RED are industry favored by pretty much any DP you would ask.

To me DP's are usually the last people to fall for marketing hype. These people see images constantly from production all the way to the finished product. ARRI isn't favored because of internet blind tests, they are favored because they actually make production and post workflow much easier. I'd love it if my S1 could give me the same image as an Alexa. But from my experience it just doesn't.

If you want a good test of a camera shoot 100 different scenes in all different scenarios, time restraints, lighting conditions, different sized crews, and then color correct and grade all of the shots and scenes. Do that with 5 different cameras and than compare them all. Well that couldn't be put in a little 5 minute youtube video. Stuff that is actually helpful can't be compressed into a little youtube video. Experience gotten from months of shooting and in post gives one a good idea of what matters.

Anyways 14 bit plus capture, even if it is just the readout is the way forward to better IQ imo. The Alexa shooting in 422 is still using a 14 bit readout. That is partially why it looks way better than cameras that are shooting 12 bit linear raw, which is a marketing scam.  12 bit linear raw really doesn't give you any more information to work with than a good 10 bit ALL-I. The advantage is it sometimes gets around the horrid internal processing many cameras do to their 10 bit options for some reason. But it also often reveals how shitty consumer sensors are in the shadows, bad colored noise and banding that is normally hidden by heavy noise reduction.

The Alexa has a 14 bit readout regardless of if you shoot 422 or 444 or RAW.

Anyways I am just expressing my disappointment in camera development. I would extend that disappointment to the high end cameras as well. RED is partially to blame in my opinion. They pushed the whole high resolution band wagon that consumer cameras jumped on. 10 years later and the best camera in the world the Alexa 35 only shoots 4k, while RED releases cameras for 1/2 what they did their previous line-up, with sensors that can't even match ARRI's 5 year old cameras. 13 years ago the Alexa came onto the market, the camera that replaced film essentially. 13 years later it's still the best sensor on the market, only surpassed by ARRI's own Alexa 35.

It's unfortunate resolution got put on the forefront of development instead of color depth, which also leads to increased dynamic range.

Am I saying the 5D MK3 is the pinnacle of image quality? No I am not. But it was capable of giving you a high bitrate 14 bit 1080p image. That was 11 years ago. Why can't we have 14 bit RAW 3K-4K in a small prosumer camera 11 years later. We get the same releases with a MK2 slapped onto it, with micro improvements. Very annoying.

Now you can tell me these are first world problems and I will gladly agree. I am in between projects right now and don't have any kids, so I have the time. And if this forum is not the place to vent about the BS that camera companies do than maybe I am just very confused.

 

Hero 11 shoots "IMAX":
Yes, the true IMAX aspect ratio (1.43:1) from the full Hero 11 8/7 sensor (and 10bit color).
The uploaded video has no horizontal bars, nor are sides cutoff - there is just more vertical resolution, useful for filming large spaces like Grand Central Terminal. Looks great on Apple Pro laptops, which are less widescreen.
5.3K resolution is more than some (ARRI) IMAX-approved cameras.
No, this does not make me Christopher Nolan.
Thank you for your cooperation.

OK, now we have with the latest GoPro Labs firmware the ability to use a color gamut (WIDE) that contains all the color the sensor can recognize, way wider than REC709. Leeming makes a LUT that transforms the WIDE gamut to REC709. This is the test video I shot using the Flog (Fuji) gamma setting, WIDE 10bit color, and graded using the Leeming LUT:
 

In a blink of an eye we're going to enter the "Web 4.0" era within a few years, when there is more AI written content on the internet than there is human written content. And you won't be able to tell the difference. 

One less pointless trip to the stratosphere (barely space!) would run DPR for 4 or 5 lives!
The forum there had a very strong NX presence, I hope we can attract here most of that traffic, even thought there are too many hobbyists and newbies, which I am not sure if they are the right target group for eoshd, still, it is a possibility..

The problem with Japanese camera makers is that they don't know how to make money anymore. You want to attract younger customers, you have to support the platforms that encourage them to use dedicated cameras. That's about a combination of knowledge and culture. Its a shame that these days its Apple, the king of parental "auto everything", that advocates manual control for its iphone cinematic mode. The Apple way of "manual" of course. Soon they change the taste of an entire generation to believe 60fps is artistic! Dedicated camera needs its own narrative to survive, and we're losing the narrative. 

I have gotten to where I shoot almost exclusively with the R7 for events and hybrid photo/video work. For talking heads, long form content, concerts, etc. where the camera can be locked down and audio is more important then I use the C70. For commercial shoots and things like music videos I typically combine the C70 with the R7 as the b-cam.
For audio when running and gunning I typically use just a shotgun mic, the Canon EF 24-105mm F4.0 lens and get pretty close to the subject to try to reduce background noise. When I am working with an onscreen personality doing impromptu interviews at events then I use a Sennheiser handheld mic and G4 receiver. For talking head work I use a Sennheiser G4 transmitter and receiver combined with a mini-XLR shotgun mic into the C70.
Some of it is depending on budget as well. If the budget is pretty low I will just use the R7 simply because I don't see the point in bringing the C70 to a lower budget shoot unless it will drastically improve my workflow. If the budget is high enough then I will use the C70 even for shots that I would typically shoot with the R7 (i.e. I will rig up the C70 on a gimbal if the budget is high enough, and forgo the R7's IBIS for the C70's improved DR/IQ when shooting handheld). 
At the end of the day I definitely make my camera selections based on the project type. If the project is 90% photography and 10% video then I will probably use the R5. If its 50/50 photography/video then I will use the R7, if I need two cameras then I will pair the R7 with the C70, if its 100% video then the budget and audio requirements will make me choose the C70 or R7, etc. etc. 
The great thing about the R7, R5, and C70 is that none of them need much rigging to work and all of them will produce great quality with or without rigging/lighting. I know BM cameras tend to need more rigging/lighting to get the best results which is why with my setup I can use any camera for anything from run and gun to studio work.