TomTheDP

4 hours ago, jack jin said:

Filmconvert nitrate already did it, with a match the cineon log scan of a bunch of filmstocks, of course there are still things missing like gate weave, accurate halation etc. But in terms of color, resolution, and dynamic range, something like the c70 already exceeds film.

Film convert isn't that accurate though and its relying on you nailing exposure and such. 

Its certainly possible to make digital look like film but it requires a good eye and a good colorist. Hard to nail unless you have a side by side or have seen tons and tons of film stock. 

4 hours ago, Spaceghost1969 said:

Canon did it 8 years ago with the 1DC. It has a definite filmic look as Armando admits. I also believe it has to do with the analog to digital conversion back in the day.

The 1DC is nice but I wouldn't say its on par with film. The color science is nice but its not mimicking any certain film stock. It also won't respond like film does to under or over exposure. Over exposing the 1DC will result in a digital clippy mess. 

4 hours ago, Gianluca said:

I think that it's mostly user error.... A7S-III have high quality full hd mode, same readout than 4k... In full hd a7s series have better low light performance and a better noise reduction, simply because there's no need to use an high numbers when reduction have the benefit of removing noise... 

In good light there's no problem, when light is gone, shot 1080p 

I am not sure I understand what you are talking about. The A7s3 uses noise reduction at all ISO's and regardless of the lighting situation. Look at the comparisons between the native footage and prores RAW, even in daylight situations you'll see a difference in the noise. 

Of course for people who don't want much post workflow and want a super clean looking image this could be a good thing. But noise reduction is not something you'll see on a RED or Arri. There is also no reason why Sony shouldn't give us the option to turn it off as you have on their FX6 with the same sensor. 

Supply and Demand I'd say. 

Its certainly not impossible. You'd just have to take a certain film stock and see how it reacts with over and under expose. Test it under different lighting conditions daylight, clouds, tungsten, florescent, the different variety's of mixed lighting etc.... Test how it sees the spectrum of colors, document the grain patterns when over and under exposed. As long as the sensor chosen has similar dynamic range you could pretty much match the film stock with in camera processing. 

If you shot film side by side with digital you could get them to match pretty much exactly if you have the eye for it. 

3 hours ago, Gianluca said:

Yes, but A7S-III have a very much better slowmotion quality with a very much better af system, better rolling shutter and better stabilization using gyro data and fast shutter speed 

The S1 stabilization doesn't require any external processing though as it quite amazing. It is also a much more capable stills camera. 

But yeah the video specs on the A7s3 are definitely impressive. I just wish they'd give an option to disable the heavy handed noise reduction. 

On 12/15/2020 at 5:25 PM, Mark Romero 2 said:

So when they say Dual ISO (in terms of the Panasonic S-series of cameras), they don't mean same noise level, but they mean same dynamic range as the native ISO???

That would differ from Black Magic sensor....

I think it basically means there is more dynamic range and less noise than there would be on a non dual native ISO. 

The lower base ISO will always be cleaner. Even in the case of the A7S3, I think the reason the 12,800 ISO is so clean is because of heavier noise reduction. The S1H uses less noise reduction so the comparison between 640 and 4000 iso aren't as dramatic. 

I wouldn't compare it to SLOG as its not a log curve. 

Though its a nice flat profile, designed for 8 bit unlike SLOG which doesn't really work with 8 bit IMHO. 

I think the Z6 is a fantastic buy for the money. 

3 hours ago, Papiskokuji said:

Well one forum member created LUTs to get these film emulations back from F-log. Very talented @Attila Bakos 🙂 You can purchase his LUTs.

But I can assure you, I can white balance properly, expose a bit to the right or just spot on, I always get that magenta tint in the skin tones. Same goes for the powder texture on skins. But it's all gone now since I just sold my X-T3 😢 today

What's your replacement? 

Shot this with the S1 in 1080 25p. 

Really happy with the visuals. 

Shot this with the S1 using emotive color LUT. 

8 hours ago, Papiskokuji said:

Well the actual skin smoothening was very well present on the X-T20, with the infamous waxy skin tones. But here, it's different. Whenever I'm filming someone with the X-T3, it's like there's make-up powder on the face, hard to describe, but something's going on. It can give some texture to the image but I feel it's just not the neutral representation I want from the camera. Also it's like the image is a bit faded with grey transitions from midtones to shadows.

I know what you are talking about. I think it's Fuji's effort to make skin more flattering. Its actually one of the reasons I purchased my XT3.

I like Fuji's film emulations but I find it difficult to get Flog to look as nice. In terms of color I will once again recommend Emotive color's Alexa luts. He makes one specific for the XT3. They have been the saving grace on my Pana S1. 

The A7s3 is probably one of the worst cameras out right now in terms of a cinematic feel. Due to the processing that can't be disabled it just feels less organic. This can easily be shown by seeing it side by side with the FX6 which has the same sensor but without the digital noise reduction and sharpening. 

In the cameras defense the rolling shutter performance in fantastic.

Rolling shutter, color and codec also play a part. 

I think the Pana S1H will give you a much more organic image though it suffers from much worse rolling shutter as well as no ALL-I high bitrate codecs. 

Something like a Z-cam will give you a very organic image though the rolling shutter isn't great, at least compared to a cinema camera. 

The RED Komodo is the best bang for your buck for a cinema camera look. I'd say the Canon C70 falls next to it. I might but the Pocket 6k next. The S1H isn't far behind if you can get past the rolling shutter and subpar high speed options. I think an of the URSA mini 4.6K cameras are also very organic looking with good rolling shutter performance compared to the Pocket cameras. 

I personally am happy with my Z-cam S6 and Panasonic S1. With Emotive Color's Arri LUT they look phenomenal. Any differences between them and say an Arri Classic are negated by how cheap and easier to use they are. 

I'd love a RED Komodo but I hate RED as a brand and I could have two S6's for the less than the price of one RED Komodo. The Pana S1 and Z-cam S6 are also much better at high ISO, which is more useful than rolling shutter. 

1 hour ago, TheBoogieKnight said:

Some YT tests of the R5 and R6 found the maximum under CLOG was 11 usable stops. The S1 if I remember rightly using the same parameters was 12.7 stops so a massive difference. The R5 does have the advantage of RAW and while there's actually less stops of usable DR, with noise reduction you'll almost certainly get more than you can out of CLOG although I haven't seen any tests investigating how much more.

I saw a comparison of R5 raw and the zcam F6 Prores and dynamic range seemed the same. Probably similar with the S1 as the z cam uses the same sensor. 

I really like the color. Too bad the AF is contrast based. The color on the Pana S1 sucks IMHO, but the emotive color LUT fixes that. Still would be nice to have more pleasing out of the box stills. 

Yeah the S1 image is absolutely amazing. Sony is at its neck with the A7s3, the downside being it’s a much less capable stills camera. However the Sony is plagued with over bearing noise reduction. That is just a firmware fix away though. The S1 and S5 are much cheaper too. 

I've always thought Nolan was more mainstream to begin with. Even Tarantino is just around because he has a following. Its always been about money. Lots of good stuff comes out on streaming services. 

7 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Would be interesting to know how Emotive Color stacks up against the new Cinematch plugin from the guys behind Filmconvert. From what I've seen it looks pretty promising...

Yeah definitely didn't seem the most accurate. Take into account Sage's lut gives you a tungsten, daylight, and 4200k lut options, as well as over, under, and black balance luts. You get none of that precision with cinematch.

3 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And the ability to punch in while recording.

not possible unfortunately 

My ryzen 3700x does not do well with playback on H265 Long GOP 4k. I need a GPU upgrade but I don’t know how much that would help. Honestly debating whether to tell my friend who wants me to build him a $1200 editing PC that he might be better off with an M1

15 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

CR3 rumors are normally spot on so it seems same as c300 iii  dlo, 4k raw and 4k 10bit but no 4k 120....

question is RF or EF?

That would be great. I mean I love 120 but its more of a niche frame rate anyways. If its around the same as the C70 that would be a bargain. 

4 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Yes so you see the rub. You can call people to violence indirectly. Lots of atrocities have been promoted and achieved through this kind of crap. So it’s always a balance and I’m of the opinion the balance is no longer their because we now have technology that had outpaced our traditional societal structures. Im not promoting anything except abundant caution. 

The amount of variables that contribute to why specific great atrocities happen are so many and so complex I'd not want to try to delve into it. I personally have much more hope for the future than what the past has been. The traditional structures that were in place before didn't stop any of the constant wars or atrocities that happen world wide to this day. 

I think traditional social structures are forever gone though. We have no unity anymore not in religion, not in our cultural identity, not in our identity as citizens of the countries we belong. Or at least that is how I see it within people of my age group and younger here in the US. Its like we've seen everything as a fraud. 

Of course we have this hurrah of nationalist sentiment with Trump which I feel will dwindle with him out of office and of course once the older generation that put him in office is dead and gone. Of course I am speaking of the USA and not the world as a whole.

In general though I see technology as the great liberator. We have all this information at our finger tips like never before along with access to any person anywhere in the world. We are also only really two decades into it.

7 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Except free speech doesn’t often cover some of the content they show you.

Is promoting violence ok? Many people think not. And the issue is a slippery slope for drawing a line in the sand. 

What does promoting violence entail? Unless its a call to violent action which I agree should be removed. 

But I am on the extreme side of the free speech argument, libertarian you could say, which IMHO is very different from the whole Nationalist Trump way of thinking. 

22 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm specifically referring to Newfoundmass's post that "their main page basically recommended alt-right and Newsmax pro-Trump videos on my first visit." That's what I have a problem with, not the underlying technology. And saying that the the alt-right (led by the Orange Dumpsterfire in the Whitehouse) is attempting to destroy democracy in America is not "hysterical hyperbole." The huge push to try to invalidate our presidential election through the alt-right media and the courts is having, and will have, long lasting effects on our election system. It's not trivial. And you can add the long-term voter suppression push from the right targeting (mostly) people of color and nakedly partisan gerrymandering of electoral districts to that. No good.

If the underlying technology is not the issue than I'd imagine its just being recommended as its one of the more viewed channels/videos on the platform. The issue with free speech or platforms that don't censor content is you'll see stuff you don't want to see. 

What exactly will the C200 mk2 be though? Another RAW + 8 bit camera. Such awkward segmentation. But there is really no where else to go between the C70 and the C300. 

4 hours ago, tupp said:

I don't know... footage from the F35 looks really good.

Definitely a nice image tho doesn’t have the latitude or dynamic range of an Arri.