TomTheDP

You won’t know the value of an END until you’ve used one. 

25 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

If they add 120fps, that would really be the only upgrade to the EVA-1 (which already has loads of 10-bit 4k codecs and 5.7k ProRes Raw).

I wonder if they'll swing for the fences a bit more to take on C300 III and FX9. Full-frame 8k? Internal raw (somehow?)? I wonder what they can do. 

I’m guessing it’ll be full frame which is the difference I guess. 8k could be interesting. 

I see the EVA2 being a 6k sensor with 120fps in 4k. I kind of think it will have no IBIS but I could be wrong. I am almost sure it will have the same crappy DFD auto focus. 

I imagine it will have RAW out and internal 10 bit 422 ALL-I. Hopefully it will have the option for high bitrate ALL-I like up to 800 but also as low as 100, should be an option. 

It really should have up to 10 stops of ND as well hopefully E-ND. 

3 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Watched the gerald undone review of the FX6 this morning.

Kind of confused that 4K Long GOP is only in 8-bit, and you would need to shoot in All-I for 10-bit 4K

Lack of even a 3.5mm mic jack on the body itself means if you take the top handle off to fly on a gimbal, you won't have any audio (except for tiny mic built in to body) is also a bummer. 

Phillip Bloom seemed pretty distraught over the handling.

Dynamic range the same as a7S III???

Seems like for a lot of people the a7S III might be a better fit...

Definitely some weird choices. I will say the E-ND will make the far apart dual ISO's a lot more manageable. 

3 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

The thing I see this camera being really good at is slow motion in lower light conditions negating the need to auxiliary light. That is very useful for smaller productions on a budget.

The AF continues to impress. I think Sony may have surpassed Canon. They are neck and neck on the Mirrorless side, but on cinema Sony performs better.

Yeah those two things in combination with the E-ND are pretty amazing. Sounds like the menu design and interface is outdated which is a bummer. They should have just gave it a better LCD with a touchscreen. 

Looked at some review tests. The FX6 can turn off noise reduction completely and also has a low, mid and high setting. At 12,800 iso with high noise reduction their is still less noise reduction than the A7S3 at its lowest settings. Very interesting. The reason I'd want this over the FX9 is for better low light performance(more important to me than 6k) as well as 4k 120p. The color also looks on par with the FX9. Aside from very funky menus Sony really delivers very usable products. 

36 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

the no intermediate 10-bit 422 codecs and audio on the handle are both pretty big dealbreakers. Also not convinced Sony has fixed their IQ enough to go up against Canon and Panasonic. 

The FX9 IQ is great. If its like that except with a A7S3 sensor, that would be nice. 

I know its a shitty release but it would definitely interest me. 

Boxes it checks. Internal ND, Full frame, 4k 120p, great low light performance, decent form factor, amazing auto focus. 

If it doesn't have the overbearing Noise reduction that plagues the A7S3, its definitely tempting. Would be nice if it dropped 1k in price though. The main competitor would be the Canon C70 which isn't full frame and low light performance isn't as good. Not that it isn't also tempting. 

The biggest downside is no downsampled 6k, but I shoot a lot in HD still....

If Apple delivers I'll probably get the pro. 

2 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

IBIS is a double edged sword and why I'm maybe happier and shooting better without it on the Pockets.  Like you I find it led to warping on wide angles and occasionally some telephoto shots.  Mostly wide angle though.  I find shots hand holding my Pocket 4K with a Canon IS lens and some Resolve stabilisation, do look a lot better than my GH5 shots with IBIS.  Though you lose some resolution doing it in post.

I use a GH5s on my gimbal and not the GH5.  I use the GH5 where I need to hand hold the camera on the go...  plus when its raining.   Its not a gimbal camera for me.

I think its very shot dependent. I used the S1 with a 35mm lens on a gimbal and it looked fantastic. It was a slower shot though without much if any panning. The main use for IBIS for me is more like getting stable more static handheld shots. IS can accomplish this too but I'd rather use my Canon FD glass or Sigma primes rather than a Canon AF lens or something. 

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

For pure stills, the R5.

For pure video, the Sony.

For hybrid, could go either way depending on your picture requirements.

Would be my opinion.

Sony all the way if it wasn't for the damn noise reduction. I'd probably still buy Sony over Canon as I am not going to deal with record limits or artificial overheating limits. 

Detail is an issue though. If you really want to punch in a lot the R5 will be way better. Again though its the damn cripple hammer. 

How about the Panasonic S1/S5/S1H/S1R instead 

3 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

That's a good question.

I am not sure: Will the S1R be getting the VLOG update???

I am unsure on that. I know its getting 10 bit, looks like only up to 30p. I assume the 5k will probably be H265 10 bit 420 200mbps. Would make sense to include vlog but we'll see. 

Nice job. Looks a tad oversharpened though and I am not sure  how effective those blurred shots are, looks a bit too artificial. 

Yeah just small things like choosing the right DOF for the type of shot you are doing and the feel you want. 

I'd say locations may be the most important thing. Some locations you hardly have to do anything to, they just look good. Same with actors too honestly. Some actors have a Hollywood look and of course having actors who can deliver lines professionally is huge. 

I have no worries about the S1 overheating unless under extreme conditions. The S1R also might be an option now. 

I am interested to see how the S1/S1H 6K compares to the 5k coming out of the S1R. It could be potentially sharper than the 6k considering its downsampled 8k. 

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

 

It’s these f1.8’s primes IMO that are going to really bring this system to life, especially if APSC crop mode is set up to one of the function buttons because then at the flick of a switch, you have effectively a dual focal length lens. Triple if you set pixel/pixel and with 4K 24mp, plenty to play with.

Yeah the APSC mode is magic to have for anything run and gun. 

I'd be keeping my Fuji if it wasn't for the record limits. I prefer it for photography most of the time. For video I prefer the Panasonic though. The Emotive color luts really bring the Pana to life. I am even considering getting a GH5 again as a C camera for interviews. Hard to beat Panasonic's just general reliability and usability. 

13 minutes ago, JackHorror said:

Thank you guys for all the answers/advices?

What about S1 vs S5?

If you want to record externally to an atomos I'd get the S1 due to it having a full hdmi rather than a micro. You will have to wait for the firmware update early next year to get the 6k raw out though. 

Otherwise they are essentially the same camera (after the S1 gets the already announced update). The S5 is smaller and has a flippy screen. The S1 also has no record limits. 

But yeah for a hybrid camera I think the S1 or S5 is the best right now. 

34 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

I'm not. I own the Micro and the original pocket. Both are beautiful cameras, but have lots of flaws and quirks that took me a while to adapt to. The studio I work for has two C300 Mk2s and they're about 100x easier to setup and operate.

Yeah I mean Z-cam is doing it almost. They just need their E-ND to be widely available. 

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The bottom line is the S5 simply ticks more of my boxes than anything else out there and has less drawbacks. In fact really only has one small Q and that’s how that AF is going to play at a real wedding, heat of the moment. Pretty sure it will be fine though.

Plus I think the S5 really has the nicest image on the block atm 

6 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I just received the panasonic S5, did not open the box yet. But somehow I am still lured to the R5 and R6. R5 is a bit too pricey for me, but I just keep wondering if I can make the R6 work. I have not seen anything goodlocking on any panasonic S camera. And from the R5/R6 I have seen some great stuff already. Also the skintones comparisons, the canons really shine imo. 

- The overheating was a worry, but I believe we can bypass it now with the battery door trick.
- Codecs, how hard they are to edit.
- How good is the 1080p
- Do you struggle with the dynamic range (vs A7SIII, S1H, pocket 6K,...)

Dynamic range is gonna be limited unless they put in CLOG2 or 3. The workaround is if you use the R5 to shoot RAW. I'd invest in the C70 if I were you unless you want to work around the dynamic range, which is of course totally doable. 

I'd agree though Pana color is subpar, I think the GHAlex lut which I keep plugging constantly is a good workaround though. It gives really beautiful skin tones. Its hard to beat the Pana image once the color is corrected IMO. 

On 11/11/2020 at 4:46 AM, stefanocps said:

yes that is for sure, about lighting and location. But, for instance, what about outdoor? with natural light i can still see a big difference. Not as big as indoor of course. I don t' really look for a "movie look" but at least not to look "too real", you know what i mean. Lens yes, that can make difference, may be using some vintage ones, not having cine lens can help?

 Where do i find the GHA lut?do i need to shoot in flog for better using it?

I'd say cine lenses are more for function than look. Of course stuff like focus breathing is also eliminated on a cine lens which effects the look. However a lot of vintage glass both Canon FD and Zeiss are very similar if not identical some of the Canon or Zeiss cine glass. 

The Sigma Art line will give you a pretty much perfect image at a low price point at least in regard to contrast and sharpness. 

But I was talking more about lens choice. Focal length and f-stop. 

Outdoors dynamic range plays a huge roll in how filmic your image will look. That said the XT3 in FLOG and HLG has pretty damn good dynamic range. Again its about picking the right shot. If a certain shot is stressing your cameras dynamic range too much, change the angle. 

Artificial lighting does play a role outdoors too though. Many Hollywood films will use powerful 6k + lights to shape light when there is full sun. Also negative fill and diffusion are widely used outdoors to shape light. 

Search GHAlex or Emotive Color on google and you'll find his page. You either have to shoot in HLG or FLOG I believe. 

8 hours ago, BenEricson said:

I had a pretty bad experience with the P4K. If I did it again, I would probably buy the 6k for the native S35 sensor, eliminating the need for the expensive speed booster. I also would skip the SSD and just bite the bullet and buy c-fast cards. I had a gnarly situation where the SSD lost connection and took me a few minutes to get it back up and running. A few minutes feel like an eternity when the camera won’t respond...

On top of that, the Metabones adapter and external hard drive eat though battery. I was forced to use an external power source, which adds more cable clutter and the need for mounting solutions. 

In my opinion, interviews, docs, and everything that you list sounds like you’d be way better off with a c200 or some sort of all in one cinema camera. I don’t absolutely love Sony images, but a used Sony FS5 is probably a steal right now and very well suited for the type of work you describe. 

I’ve used the C300 Mk2 for years on projects like those and couldn’t imagine having to carry ND filters, a clumsy mounted hot shoe shotgun mic, Lav Mics, while having to control audio through a menu based system.

I know any camera is capable, but cameras that are designed to allow solo operators to work reliably and quickly, while improving the quality of the production and reduce the chance for error are a beautiful thing. There is a reason docs are shot on the FS7 / C300 (tiger king,) and not a Black Magic camera. Ease of use and reliability. Auto Focus, 5 hours off a single BP60 and dual slot recording 4K beats the SSD hanging of a BM4K and a “fair amount of LP-6s.”

All of the Black Magic cameras will produce great images. They all have quirks but at the end of the day produce amazing images for the price point. They’re certainly not run and gun doc cameras out of the box, but with the proper rig and the experience, I am sure you can make great looking images.

I mean throw on a stabilized zoom lens with a variable ND and you are good to go. A slightly more reliable option over USB C might be the SSD to CFAST. I've had seen issues with the USB-C options on the pockets. I always like to carry back up media in case of an issue though. 

That said yes its hard to beat something like a C300 but on the other hand people use to shoot DOCs on Film. The ease of use of something like a Pocket 4k is astounding compared to that. I think its all relative to some degree. 

Speedboosters also don't have to cost much, at least if you are willing to go with a non electronic one. The Pocket 6k is pretty awesome though shooting 6k raw is a bitch. 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Speaking of ProRes RAW on the a7S III...

I thought I heard somewhere that some cameras that export ProRes RAW are not FULLY compatible, meaning one can't adjust white balance or some other aspects of the image.

Is that correct? Am I confused (again)? Was someone lying to me???

https://youtu.be/EmiEQq2MAeU?t=800

Yes you are right. 

4 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Useful to know. 
One question I have is how does the camera know whether to apply NR to the signal leaving the camera? The decision to record Prores raw or another Prores flavour is surely independent of whatever internal processing is applied to the output signal? 
But I could just be missing something and confusing myself!

Yeah I am not sure. A lot of this stuff seems arbitrary of any common sense lol 

On 11/10/2020 at 6:14 AM, Snowfun said:

As a result of internal noise reduction? 
Can’t this be totally eliminated by external recording?  To either a Ninja for Prores raw or BM Video Assist et al for Prores 422.

(I’m not suggesting that you would want to use an external recorder, just asking whether internal NR can be bypassed). 

Unfortunately its only eliminated with Prores RAW not regular prores.  

10 hours ago, stefanocps said:

hello  need some suggestion with grading. My xt3 does beautiful images, but at times grading is needed absolutely to make the footage looking like "films". It is a pity to have such a beautiful camera and have sometimes result that is so far from any kind of cinema look; it looks too real. If i see it on my pc is still not so bad, but on my tv no ....

I attach a frame and i ask you what would you do. I have done some work on contrast and saturation

Please give me some hint..i will study cc soon because i find it so important...

Lens choice, lighting, and location are the key for getting a "movie" look. 

In terms of color I'd highly recommend the GHA lut. Can't beat the Alexa for color. May not be your final look of course but its a good starting point. But again if you have a crappy location with crappy lighting your movie probably won't look much like a "movie"