thebrothersthre3

22 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Good luck with that micro hdmi connection

I forgot about that. Fuck Canon for that one. 

Micro HDMI is unacceptable. 

2 minutes ago, Leica50mm said:

Who is shooting “onset” with a 3500.00 hybrid camera ?  

I feel its not that uncommon for a Hybrid to be used as a gimbal camera. Just was on a show with a FX9 as A cam and A73 as B camera and Gimbal camera. Depends on how high end the show is I guess. Probably not really a thing in most narrative stuff(the pro stuff at least).

All this stuff is mostly catering to the lower end of things I feel like. 

Record limits suck, but its not the end of the world to just press record again. We've all been dealing with 15-20 minute record limits on many cameras. Overheating though is an issue because you can't just press record again if the camera is powered off from overheating and needs 15 minutes to cool down. 

Sounds like their are resolution options that don't overheat so its really not bad. Who shoots at over 4k 30p for most stuff anyways? Lots of people do so they'll just have to get something else. 

I am really thinking about getting an R6 plus Ninja V. Having something with reliable auto focus and 10 bit is huge for under 3k. 

If Fuji can up their Auto Focus game I'll gladly throw my money their way. That goes for Panasonic or Blackmagic!

Just now, ntblowz said:

 

R6 on 4K cropped could do unlimited as that will be either 1:1 or slight upscaling like the M50 in 4k

OK not so bad then.

Canon really should have went S1H route for the body, at least on one of these cameras. I guess serious shooters just need to pony up and get a C300 MK3 or C500 MK2. Or buy another brand .............

38 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

F.........K canon, R6 is even worst than R5 managing the heat. We are screwed, I can't work with these cameras unless there is an alternative solution, external recording maybe?, cage with fan?, ohh gosh, what a mess!!!

The people who modded the A6300 to work with a fan had to actually open up the camera for the fan to be effective. I'd imagine it would be the same with this. I guess its doable under decent conditions (dust or rain would kill it). 
External recorders work to bypass overheating on Sony cameras though so I am sure its the same with this. The Ninja V is only $500, not too bad. Then you get Prores which is superior for editing anyways. 

1 minute ago, ntblowz said:

R5 can do unlimited 4K30P under 32C at out door full sun no problem as tested by another R5 tester.

Its just unfortunate the R6 can't handle the same as its quite a bit cheaper and makes more sense for most people's needs.

Couldn't an external recorder solve all that? Its just $500. More bulky for sure but definitely doable. 

I agree Canon should have figured out the overheating and had no time limits but it is what it is. 

The other option is a C300 MK3, but its quite a bit of dough or a 1DX MK3

I think an R6 plus Atomos Ninja 5 is worth it. Canon full frame 10 bit 4k 60 and Canon legendary PDAF for $3000 

Let’s go Sony! 4k 120p without overheating will be a huge winner. 

16 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

(though even the Philip Bloom video shows that with careful lens selection and setup the T4 gives acceptable autofocus) 

Which lens selection?

I think we can all be grateful for the large amount of tech and options we have now. This is certainly an impressive release from Canon. 

However it is odd to put out a product that overheats. If it's a professional tool why can't it perform in professional settings. Is it meant to be a camera for hobbyists and niche users? 

On the other hand small cameras like these are unprecedented with such high resolutions. But I think its a legitimate thing to ask, "are these limitations due to technology limitations or because Canon doesn't want to put out the best product they can"?

I'll definitely be considering an EOS R6 down the line for the ability to record very high quality imagery with amazing AF. Record limits can always be bypassed with an external recorder. 8k and pixel binned 4k isn't really my thing. 
 

At least they readily admit the overheating unlike sony. 

Its unfortunate but not surprising. The S1H and S1 has no heat issues but they are much larger cameras, S1H having internal fans. 

The XT3, A6300, and A73 all have overheating issues. Not sure about the Nikon Z6. 

I understand the overheating more with the R5 but its more of a bummer with the R6. 

Its one of the reasons I love Panasonic and wish they'd get their AF together. I think the S1H and S1 will remain really solid choices unless Sony really pulls something out of their hat. 

Record limits under 20 minutes definitely make things less desirable for weddings or any live events. 

20 minutes seems doable for filmmaking or most applications. Most takes aren't more than 5 minutes, that should give enough time to not get overheating. 

Canon users will finally have a good video option for an affordable price. Full frame 4k 60p at 10 bit with Clog for $2500. That has been long awaited. If it has PDAF at 4k 60p I think it will be a really compelling option for anyone. 

External RAW would be nice though......

 

10 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

The 20mp is the biggest thing that's giving me pause about the R6. I have 30, 36 and 42 between the EOS R and a couple generations of a7r's, 20 is a huge step back on the photo side. The difference from 24 to 42 with the a73 and a7r3 was tough to do when I shot both of them. Wonder why Canon is stuck on that one.

Chris

Why not get the R5, thats what it's for. 

I am hoping the low MP on the R6 is for better low light performance. 

9 minutes ago, Django said:

I dunno I’m kinda looking forward to the hype fest YouTube bonanza after such a grim dull year with all the delays and trade show cancellations..

 

Yeah same, this is probably the most hype I've had for a camera release.

Nikon is way better than the recent Sony offerings. However the Z6 was also introducing a new mount. I feel like most Nikon shooters are just sticking with the old DSLRs which have superior IQ and AF for stills. It wasn’t compelling enough for a new shooters to pick them over Sony or Canon Panasonic. 

57 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

The P6K handles noise reduction in the shadows much better than the UM46, which struggles with patterns and ugly color shift even after generous NR. 

Yeah that’s the issue with the ursa underexposed 

6 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

The pocket is keeping the highlights better, yes. That doesn't necessarily equate to DR because we don't know the distribution, and I do think that the Ursa is better in the underexposure strictly in terms of amount of noise, not that you would use it because the fixed pattern is very unpleasant. But Ursa is also keeping the sharpness in the underexposure just slightly better--though that could be a slightly sharper lens. But of course that's splitting hairs as you wouldn't use either one at that point.

If you do any more tests, what I would do is get a gradient of light and ensure that they clip at the same point, and then check the shadows. That would avoid any variables with them distributing DR differently around middle grey, or any discrepancies between what the two cameras use as middle grey to begin with. Maybe I'll do a similar test with my cameras just for fun.

The ursa had a sigma lens vs a rokinon but it’s hard to say. I want to do more exact testing with my Xt3 as well, before I sell the ursa. 

36 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

@thebrothersthre3 Thanks for the files. I've played around with them a little bit. It's so close, I can't definitively say one looks to have more DR than the other. I do think that, although the FPN is subjectively displeasing in motion, the actual amount of noise looks slightly less on the Ursa... though it's obviously hard to say. One really interesting thing is just how different the colors are. The Ursa is very magenta. I can definitively say that from these images, I like the P6K version better.

Just to go back against the other measurement, C5D puts the P6K at 11.8 in 6k at ISO 400, and the Ursa 4.6K at 12.5 when the 4.6k is downscaled to UHD in ISO 800. That's gotta be really close if you also downscale the P6K to UHD. Also worth noting that they measured at 400 instead of 800. I don't know which way that would change things--you'd expect worse DR in a non-native ISO, but it could also have different noise reduction. So overall I'd caution against saying this disproves the other measurement, but it is evidence against the Ursa having more DR than the P6K at any given setting.

 

The other thing I will say about latitude is that while latitude does not equal DR, its is true that if Camera A has both more over- and under-exposure latitude than Camera B, then Camera A also has more dynamic range (discounting subjective opinions on one having a "nicer" noise pattern).

I don’t think the noise pattern is subjective in this case. It’s unusable on the URSA. Do you not think the pocket is keeping the highlights better tho ? My face can pretty much be recovered with the P6k where it’s clipped to white on some parts with the URSA. I want to do another test on the URSA to see where the weird vertical lines start happening. I would agree the overall noise is slightly less. But those vertical lines just aren’t removable with NR. The pocket and ursa do better in shadows at 400 iso but I prefer highlight to shadow info usually. 

Why is the GH5S more video centric than the S1H

10 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Dynamic range is how much information you can See in the shadows and highlights. All of that may not be usable in post, and depending upon signal to rise ration, it could vary greatly. 

Exposure latitude is how much of that, you can further push in post, without degrading the image enough, to make it unusable. It has got to do the sensor, and more importantly, the codec bit depth. Like a 14-bit codec would always be a (little) better than a 12-bit one, a 12-bit one would be better than a 10-bit one etc. I am guessing the arrangement if middle grey would also govern the latitude, and whether the highlights are better protected or shadow information. 

Sensor size, to some extent would also govern how much of latitude is available in the final image.

Please correct me if I an wrong. 

So like with the Pocket 6k it appears to be clipped but change the gamma and colorspace to rec2020 and all that information is there. Where as with the Ursa its still clipped white. 

28 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Related, but not really directly correlated.

I am slightly confused by latitude vs dynamic range. I'll get it eventually. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PxAM3CzdQrwPsCqm2DWTIZiKxoC2Cy5J?usp=sharing

Here are the RAW files. 

A Fuji XT30 or XT3 would be a good option, quite a bit cheaper than the A73. An A6300 might be a better match color wise though. 

3 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Thanks for the info. I look forward to the DNG's.So you only used one camera setting total, and the only difference between the over- and under-exposure tests is that one has a 300W light and the other does not? Is that correct?

 

We turned the light off and closed down the aperture to 5.6. 
The one lens was a sigma and the other a Rokinon so there could be a slight difference there but it would be super minimal. Got about 2 hours left on the upload to google drive. 

I was going to do a more structured test but I forgot to bring my light meter. The one issue is the underexposed images are probably too far gone. The Pocket 6k looks better still but its not really very usable haha. 

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

@thebrothersthre3 Raw files would be great, along with some information about your test. What ISO? How much over/under are these? What did you use as a base line for "correct" exposure? How are you measuring stops (aperture or shutter speed)? How did you process the images?

Did you process the images differently? Because on the under exposure images that the P6K clips more outside the window than the Ursa.

Not trying to say you're wrong here, just trying to understand what I'm looking at.

The info outside the window was because I pulled down the highlights on the Ursa CDNG footage. With the Pocket 6k BRAW there is no option for highlights so I left it alone. 

Its a very unscientific test. Both cameras were set at 800 iso, 180 degree, F2.8. Then I blasted a 300w LED directly at my face 7 feet away. The idea was just to dramatically over expose and see which could bring back more detail. Same deal with the under exposed image. 

Post adjustments were just using the exposure slider. I believe I brought down the over exposed image 5 stops and brought the under exposed image up 4 stops. I didn't use the highlight recovery box. 

I am uploading the RAW files to Google Drive right now. I'd like to do a more scientific test and also use my XT3 in photo mode to see how they pair against those RAW files. But this test shows me what I was looking to see, which holds more highlight information and has more usable shadows.

5 hours ago, androidlad said:

Great, this aligns nicely with what C5D did with their over/under tests.

But, this is testing the latitude, not dynamic range.

Don't dynamic range and latitude directly correlate to each other tho? A sensor with more dynamic range will have more latitude and vice versa?