Yurolov

I think if the results aren't world-beating for this iteration, they will be very soon. The dangerous thing for the camera industry is that the biggest player has now set its sights on the enthusiast market and has marked its intention to go after it, and 100% apple will not lose this battle as it can crush the japanese companies very easily.  

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

It will turn into a 2.8 light gathering but stay a f4 for DoF and more or less keep the same FOV.

The 24-70 F2.8 will become a f2 light gather but stay f2.8 DoF.

Assuming the crop is 1.5 (it could be 1.6).

24*1.5*0.71 = 25.5

F4*1.5*0.71 = 4.26

F4 Dof is plenty for that lens and docu work. The light gathering is the important part as it means you can leave the lens on day into night and have that amazing range for run and gun.  

So the 24-105 will turn into an 2.8 with that range in FF. With the built in ten stop, this really will be great for docu work. 

I prefer s16 as don't have to futz around with focusing so much. 

What will this do to the secondhand S1 market?? I've  already seen the S1R going for 1600 in brand new condition!  

Still a bit too big imo if you are looking at the size of these smaller RF cine cameras. They need to get it so it can fit on gimbals. 

Recalling previous posts where it was said that if a phone overheated while shooting basic 4k video it would be recalled. I would hope so too. But here we have sony's brand new Xperia 1 ii overheating after 5-7 minutes of 4k use in the so called "cinemapro" app and this guy is still recommending it to his users:

Here is a reddit post where other users have encountered the same problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/hglqnc/fyi_xperia_1_ii_overheats_and_shuts_down_cinema/

I understand that no one should buy a sony smartphone, and very few people will (thankfully), but I am curious to see what sony have said about it (if anything) before the release of the phone, seeing as this feature was touted as a distinguishing feature of the phone. Of course, it won't stop youtubers from recommending it either (see above). 

It is only a curious case because sony are basically non-existent in the smartphone game, but intriguing nonetheless as a case study in marketing and the tremendous work Andrew has done in pushing back against the Canon narrative (which otherwise might have been accepted and the issues washed over like in the case of this phone). In hindsight it is easy to say that this overheating issue would have been brought to the fore, but you will recall the first video from DPReview on the r6 where it was basically said that it was a non-issue. Their tune only changed after Andrew pushed the issue.  

More anecdotal news:

24 minutes ago, ajay said:

Do we know with absolute certainty that Canon is using the EXIF temperature data to determine when to shut down the camera? For example, what if there is a temperature sensor on the back of the sensor itself? That sensor is floating w/o a heat sink. It very well could overheat while the remainder of the camera stays warm but not hot.

Can this be sourced from the firmware? 

18 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Oh god if they give it 4K 60p but not 4K 24p that would be awful.  

these arbitrary limitations do my head in. And they wonder why the industry is dying off. If the hardware can do it - just add it. If you want an entry-level camera cut costs on evf, weather resistant, etc and let consumers decide if they need these hardware options. Don't mess around with this kind of stuff. 

2 hours ago, sanveer said:

It's not there in the Sony A7siii either. It's apparently no big deal. 

No big deal as all who get will use for vlogs and online content. 

Might wait and see how the new pixel 5 turns out. They bump the clarity up in their photos but the portrait modes look the best imo. Unfortunately, I don't think Huawei is a viable option these days. I can't have a phone that fights me when there are so many good options out there. 

Wow. The plot thickens. Great write-up, Andrew. 

1 hour ago, hijodeibn said:

in post I still want 422, I agree the image from canon is great, but you have to expose properly and make no mistakes, if you have a better codec you will be able to recover from some mistakes during the shooting process, I have been working with Canon C100 for a few years and the ninja star is already part of the hardware.

Of course 422 is preferred. But so long as you can use clog2 with the internal codec there is no issue with the dynamic range. 

The benefit of the 8 bit is that it is so much easier on the computer. 

On 8/8/2020 at 12:43 PM, hijodeibn said:

R200 with 420 8-bit?, I will get an R6 with a Ninja 5 instead any day of the week, and a portable fridge of course, really bad for a cinema camera

This is what happens if you just read off a specs sheet. The 8bit of the c200 is very, very good and will give you a great image.  

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

Sony is not really in the business of selling 'cameras' but 'image sensors' - a business they dominate and until recently couldnt make enough of (smartphones now often have 5 image sensors when 10 years ago they had 1 or 2.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-23/sony-can-t-make-image-sensors-fast-enough-to-keep-up-with-demand

The camera business is simply a halo product for this business where they can show off their latest tech and be at the forefront of this business. The camera business doesnt really have to make money itself if it is promoting their image sensor business. Their strategy has been incredibly successful judging from their share price....

....in marked contrast with someone like Canon....

So I dont think Sony's camera business will be disappearing anytime soon....

If their camera division is not successful they will - just like with their laptops. Their is an argument to be made that the old camera companies will stay in the game longer out of a sense of Japanese obligation but you can see even olympus relented.

http://www.koreaninvestors.com/?p=9564

Meanwhile samsung is narrowing the gap to sony in cmos market share.

And samsung continues expanding imaging as well: https://petapixel.com/2020/06/01/samsung-is-ramping-up-image-sensor-production-again/

Samsung had the best sensors in the nx1 but bailed because they saw the writing on the wall. I wouldn't bet against them here. 

21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sigma

I hope sigma don't get swallowed up. They are making cameras with soul and passion, and at least trying something new and innovative. 

4 minutes ago, Nezza said:

You're the one with comprehension issues - in the video above he was forced to state what settings he used in the comments below. I quote him:

"4K HQ, 23.98p, IBIS on, AF ON, ALL-I (even though that doesn't matter in this case)."

He also says in the video using an external recorder 'solves' 4K on the R5. This is an outright lie - he hasn't tested it at the higher frame rates. You can't trust a word he says if he's prepared to lie like this. 

Look at the pretty much universal praise for Gerald's video. I know who I trust rather than this liar.

That's funny cause Gerald approved of this video and has been conversing with him on twitter to do more tests lol.

You sure make it very difficult for yourself on here.  

6 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Heres another guy claiming he ran externally (Blackmagic Video Assist) without card in camera until batteries died @ 2 hours.

So this seems to be related to having the card in camera.

 

 

Could it be firmware (intentional cripple?)? As if the card is inside but it is recording externally surely there shouldn't be any difference to when the card is removed?

13 minutes ago, Nezza said:

This guy neglected to mention in the video he shot at 24p, not the higher frame rates. Then he had to add an update that other people were using recorders and getting overheating.

Simply not reliable, 4+ grand please! 

You must have comprehension issues. Direct from the video descriptions, and also posted like 20 seconds in:

"The Canon R5 does not seem to overheat, externally, if you don't have any cards in the camera. In this video I show (with as much proof as I can), how I'm able to record up to 4 hours in 4KHQ 30fps, 10-bit CLOG, with IBIS and DPAF all on, with no issues like the blackout or screen off issue myself and Gerald were having."

I'm all for bashing the camera, but if you want to do it at least be right. 

7 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Gerald Undone has done it again, incredible review of the R5 and R6. I am also so glad someone finally pointed out that you cannot do backup recording with either camera and that record limits in 2020 are stupid...so many people seem to not care about those things. He also reached the same conclusions that I reached......they aren't true hybrid cameras without an external monitor.

 

A surprising finding though was that the DR isn't any better than my 6yr old 5DIV.

 

https://youtu.be/qDXPiu3wpBs

 

his heating times have now been proven to be off. 

I wouldn't put too much faith in the dr results with these kinds of tests either as they are crude. and don't account for a lot of variables 

I think he was too kind to these cameras which should have been pilloried, but i understand that he does not want to break relationships.

He likely got the cameras early cause of the glowing reviews of the c300 and c500.  

23 minutes ago, ajay said:

Just for fun, I took the side-by-side video clip from both cameras and did a little tweaking to get them a bit closer to each other. (See below)

There's some truth to Canon's ability to produce a more pleasing look right out of camera but both cameras can certainly be adjusted to match. I have used Andrew's Pro Color adjustments in the A7III to produce "Canon Color" directly out of the camera by tweaking settings in-camera. That is one feature of Sony cameras that are often overlooked. You can tweak profiles to the nth degree. In current Sony mirrorless cameras however you can only do so much tweaking due to dynamic range limitations and 8-bit codecs.

Where the differences typically exist between these consumer cameras and production cinema cameras boils down to dynamic range and how many stops of light you have available in the highlights and shadows.

I am quite confident that the new A7SIII can be tweaked in-camera to produce many different "looks" straight out of camera and with better dynamic range and a 10-bit codec.

These configurations fall apart in mixed lighting etc. 

There is a reason why Sony intentionally don't give s cinetone and Venice color. They want you to pay more for privilege of decent looking color. 

5 hours ago, Inazuma said:

We have already seen some AB tests of the a7s and R6. The colours aren't THAT different. I think you're all kidding yourselves when you say it has a colour problem. I am unbiased as I don't own or intend to  own either cams or anything like them.  If you're not seeing good colour from a7s videos then it is the fault of the colour grader. And  "thick colour" is the same nonsense as what photographers call "3d pop".  You're just reaching for terminology to reinforce/shill your idea. It's possible to see thick colour as you're grading a file but not just based off seeing the final product. 

So then when people talk about arri colors or red colors. That's all shill is it? There is nothing cinematic about those images? There is nothing cinematic about the old ccd raw cameras like the digital bolex? - that's shill too if I say that I prefer the bolex image to the sterile image of a sony?

You won't get one mirrorless camera that even gets close to the look of something like an arri. 

Over-sharpened, bad skin tones, terrible under mixed lighting. 

If we take your statement to its logical conclusion you would have to agree that there is no difference between the image of a a7siii and a7iii. That I can agree with. 

7 hours ago, plucas said:

Apparently you can extend the external recording life in the 4K HQ mode (30fps) if you remove any cards from within the R5:

 

strange gerald, being so thorough, missed something so simple as taking a card out! who would have known? Thats the problem when companies give you a camera for like 2 weeks and expect you to do a full review on all the specs. You need to own a camera to be able to figure out all the kinks. 

1 hour ago, jack jin said:

plus all of the iq advantage I've mentioned (High iso, DR etc.)

You do realise you are comparing a camera that hasn't come out yet to a camera that does not even exist lol.  Absurd as your comment is, one thing we do know for sure is that the footage coming from the a7siii is average. That is not something many would say about the recent komodo footage and the canon cine line in general.