gt3rs

1 minute ago, mercer said:

I thought the DCI crop for the mkiv is 1.64-1.75 (arguably) but yeah you're probably right, 4K is highly unlikely. I just wouldn't be surprised by anything with Canon. It is curious that they're skipping the eos-m4 moniker and going to the m5, though. It's also curious that they are announcing the m5 at Photokina and not the highly rumored full frame mirrorless that they're supposed to be releasing by year's end... unless they're one in the same. 

Yes DCI of the IV is 1.64 but the M5 is probably a 24mpix APS-C sensor so you start already at 1.6x add the 1-1 4k pixel readout and you should land around 2.34 FF crop or 1.46 APS-C crop. Still usable with APS-C wide-angle lenses but I doubt it will be like this.

I personally would be very happy if they would put a 1-1 4k 30p MJPEG at 400 Mbits on it....but is more a dream than an hope

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Idk, the m5 could have a lower bitrate mjpeg 4K. The m3 is the first Canon non-Cinema or camcorder to have focus peaking, so I wouldn't be surprised at all. Since Canon is about product segmentation, the mirrorless division has a different competitor base than their DSLR arm. With DSLRs, their major competition is Nikon who also just released 4K in their flagship models. With Mirrorless, their biggest competitors are Sony and Panasonic that have 4K capable cameras on similarly priced cameras. Just saying I will not be surprised if it does have it. Either way, as you said, it should have 60p and DPAF, which will probably get me to buy one to complement the 1080p from my XC10. If it doesn't have those two features, I may get the 80d for the same reason. 

I hardly doubt the 4k because it would be even more of a crop that the 5d IV at 2.34 DCI.... my guess is that if we get lucky is the same sensor as the 80D with 1080 60p and DPAF that would be for Canon mirrorless standards very very good.

In my country the wifi adapter was 370 usd at launch....
If you use the 1dx II on a tripod you can connect a PC, tablet or Mac via Ethernet you have even less lag.
Alternatively you can buy a small battery power router that has an Ethernet port any you get the same functionality but is not as convininet, additional thing to charge, cable and router hanging around where the WFT is a more elegant solution.

For gimbal use the WFT-8E is the way to go. Lag is ok, I did recently a scene where I had my 1DX II on the Ronin M on a cablecam and I was using a tablet for framing and focus setting while operating the Ronin via remote... a zero lag would have been better but it was usable and the scene came out as I wanted. If you think what a remote follow focus with a remote hdmi solution would cost you the 370 usd was a great investment.

Interesting is that the C700 at 4k 60fps 10 bits 4:2:2 XF-AVC has a data rate of 810 Mbits. 
People complain about the 1Dx II data rate due to the MJPEG that is a dinosaurs and file are soo big for nothing....
I know is not so easy to compare but the 1Dx II would need around 20% more space for roughly a similar quality (800 Mbits 4:2:2 but only 8 bits, using 10 bits jpegs would be 1000 Mbits)

So in pure theory the 1Dx II using XF-AVC 8bits 4:2:2 instead of MJPEG would have a data rate of 640 Mbits instead of 800 Mbits.

10 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Question is to current users: what is the 120fps like? This is what worries me, as Canon don't have a great history of slo-mo. Is there lots of aliasing? Moire? Detail? Noise? Artefacts? 

I agree with Luke that 120fps is 5d III quality, not bad but not great. I do use it quite a bit but when I know that I don't need too slow down too much I go with 4k 60p and conform it on post. When I can I shoot at 120fps and then re-shoot at 4k 60p and choose in post which one fits best, the athletes hate me for this:-) 
Comparing 120fps vs. 4k 60p quality is day and night IMO.

I wish there would be an option to have 120fps 1080p at 1-1 pixel.... I know it would be a severe crop but if the quality would be like a 1-1 1080 crop out of the 4k quality it would be super.

Anyway for action the combination of 120fps with DPAF and shallow DOF can create some really nice scenes.

16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Thanks for the insights Luke. Impressive.

That is correct but I found when creating EOSHD C-LOG that we're talking rather subtle differences in the highlight roll off and colour compared to the real thing.

Seeing the results from C-LOG on the 1D C and how nicely my custom film styles have come out with skintones vs my A7S II (there really is no contest) is convincing me that the lack of real Canon LOG on the 1D X Mark II might not be quite so big an issue.

Sorry Sony but the A7S II does not flatter the people I put in front of it - and I'm starting to think it is a fundamental sensor or hardware issue because even the raw stills don't come out as nicely as the 1D C JPEG does out of the box - and that is after a lot of messing in post, valuable time wasted making up for Sony's dodgy colour science

How long does it take to conform and write the final file after you stop recording slow-mo? Or is it instant and you can quickly start the next take?

Is istantaneous and as soon as you stop you can hit record again 0 delay

43 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

 

That's partially incorrect I'm afraid, 120/100fps recording gets conformed to 29.97fps or 25fps depending on NTSC/PAL settings, only these two framerates are available when shooting 120/100fps.

Yes, you are right just checked on my camera and the High Frame Rate and the 24.00p settings are mutually exclusive and PAL/NTSC settings decide the conforming frame rate. Max record time is 7:29 minutes

1/125 is the minimum shutter speed. 120fps is conformed to the camera framer rate 24,25,30 or 60 also no audio. Max record time at 120fps is 7 minutes.

19 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

VERY similar dynamic range benefit to Canon LOG.

Did a test today on the 1D C, a very contrasty scene, the white building was extremely brightly lit in the midday sun.

Ungraded frame grabs from DCI 4K...

Official Canon LOG:

C-LOG:

Looks like I will be getting a 1D X Mark II after all!!

In fact they look quite similar in term of DR.

Your custom one seems to have more saturation because the reds and magentas are more saturated that the original, did you have the same saturation dialed in?

Luke did test the 1Dx II vs.1Dc also on the 1080p:

I cannot comment on the 1080p quality because I use only the 120fps, that is for sure not on pair to the 4k 60p scaled down to 1080p. For my usage I prefer to always to shoot at 4k even for quick turnaround. I can edit even directly from the CFast card with Resolve in real time so I can have a quick turnaround without too many hassle. So if you have enough CFast or fast CF cards why bother with the 1080p.

Battery life I would say I can fill a 256 CFast card with 1/3 of battery left. So i would say around 1h & 1/2  - 2h with one battery but is not scentific. In my usage I tend to reveiw alot the clips and I do a lot of gimbal work where I use an external monitor.

AF racks look very good to me not robotic.. but Philip Bloom is supposed to publish an AF test soon so you may want to wait that for an in deep analysis.

For me the AF is really good, I just finish a video of horse back riding shoot 70% on a Ronin M wide open at 24 1.4 and 50 1.2 as a one man band and running around the horses that gallop... I had a few miss focus but before it would simply be impossible.

5 minutes ago, squig said:

Ewwww.

Hell yeah.

You 3:1 compress it.

BMC 4k RAW 3:1 is 200 MB/s ca. 1.6 Gbits.... 2x the 1Dx II 4k60p data rate.... no way on a CF card, on CFast is doable like BM does.

Personally I see no use other than the 120fps for 1080p. The 4k quality is so much better and the possibility to reframe and stabilize before outputting 1080p it is a no brainer. The only reason to use the S35 1080p is in case that you need to record for many hours something that I never do, but I understand that could be something that others need.

The only thing that the 1DC has better is CLog, I would take the 4k60 DPAF over Log any time but I do tons of one man gimbal stuff for sports so my needs may differs from others.

I really like the 1Dx II and 4k 60p with DPAF is really unique and powerful. I just read that Philip Bloom wants to the sell his 1DC to acquire a 1Dx II. I believe he was really impressed by the DPAF and 4k 60p and I can share the reasoning.

But Canon should do a firmware update for the 1Dx II and add Log, a 1:1 crop option for 1080p 120fps (higher quality), zebra and peeking this would make It the perfect hybrid. Even paying update would be good.

Probably it will not happen, but I’m sure that they would sell even more 1Dx and probably not cannibalize the Cxxx series.

I’m not so sure that there will be a 1DC II.

22 minutes ago, TSV said:

What really baffled me here with the 5DMKIV, 1DX MKII and MJPEG, is that the XC10 (Like it or hate it) is a 2000 USD Camera with an inferior Image processor (Digic 5) but comes with a more "modern" codec : XF-AVC 4.2.2 Codec 8Bit internal and 10 external and Canon Log.

If they could have done that on a Digic5 IP, why can't they do that on a new Digic6+ IP??!?!?

Because the XC10 has a small detail called cooler fan......

For the MJPEG haters, which one you would pick (codec only)?:

Canon 4k DCI 4:2:2 500 Mbits All-I 8 bit

Canon XC10 XF-AVC 4k UHD 4:2:2 300 Mbits All-I 8 bit

Sony A7 series XAVC S 4k UHD 4:2:0 100 Mbits 8 bit

Panasonic GH4 4k UHD 4:2:0 100 Mbits LGOP 8 bit

Nikon 4k UHD 4:2:0 144 Mbits 8 bit

Today there is no DSLR with a perfect solution in term of codec. Best would be the XF-AVC but right now it needs a fan that is a no go on wheatear sealed body.

As you can see they are all compromises and I personally would pick the MJPEG over the competition 4:2:0 formats and low bitrate any day.

To the ones that say that Canon do not innovate, today the 1Dx II is the only DSLR form factor camera that can shoot in 4k DCI 60fps 4:2:2.
Of course a 5Ds with a 4k full frame sensor with 4k DCI 60fps 4:2:2 500 Mbits XF-AVC with CLOG, Zebra, Peeking etc,. would be the dream  but it will not happen.

But there is no excuse for no LOG and no Zebra and Peeking.

1 hour ago, Eno said:

 

@gt3rs, don't get your hopes up. A 4K UHD crop from a 30,4 Mpix sensor will result in approx 1,75x crop. A lot closer to Panasonic Gh2 1,86x video crop than Canon APSC.

 

View that the video format is 16:9 or 1.9:1 (DCI) we should use only the horizontal resolution in calculating the crop. If not even a FF sensor is a crop in video mode. IMO 5D IV will have 4k DCI that is 4096×2160 so 6750/4096 = 1.647 Crop in comparison to 1Dx II ‎5472/4096 = 1.335 and 1Dc 5184/4096 = 1.265. It could be something else but I doubt that they implemented something different than the 1Dx II considering the rest of the specs.

Btw not sure why people complain about the MJPEG format, in Resolve scrubbing a 4k MJPEG file is way faster than a LGOP h.264 and with the new updated 12.5.1 I can even edit natively on Windows the 25fps 4k MJPEG on my notebook (i7-4810MQ) in real-time on FullHD timeline. I switch the timeline to 4k for the final rendering.

4k will be 1.6 (APS-C) crop. This is not a fact but my pure speculation based on the fact that 30.4 mpix at around 1.6 crop will make a 1-1 pixel 4k DCI. So I expect the video quality similar to the 1Dx II but with a bit more crop.

I have no idea about this CFast model but I did take the risk an brought 2x 256 GB CFast Lexar 3400 (discontinued model) from ebay. I have taken more than 2 TB of video on the two cards and mostly all at 4k 60p with no issue so far. Here a thread that I started on fredmiranda: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1428459/0

Unfortunately since the 1dx II is out and probably the tread on fredmiranda the prices are going up like crazy... I did pay 300 USD each for the 256 GB.

There is a risk of course.

I don't own any sigma lenses. I did take a look at the 18-35 but as I do a lot of photography too it is not worth for my use case. But if you do mostly video it could work. TDP did a test on the 5D III and as you can see it will probably work on the ca. 1.3 crop on the 4k mode.

TDP test: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Sigma-18-35mm-f-1.8-DC-HSM-Lens.aspx#FULLFRAME

1DX II 4k DCI overlay:

I did a couple of experiments to see how good is the DPAF in the 1Dx II.

Youth girl running in front of me while running with the Ronin M, Face tracking, Canon 50 1.2 at 1.2 (shutter speed was 1/3200 to rule out any motion blur while evaluating frame by frame focus). Screen grab:

Youth girl playing tennis from a tripod using Face tracking AF with a Canon 85mm 1.8 at 1.8 (shutter speed was 1/4000 to rule out any motion blur while evaluating frame by frame focus). Screen grab:

If the face is visible the AF really sticks to it. In both video the face was in focus for during the whole video length. Naturally face tracking does not work well or not at all for lateral shoots.

I will soon test it with an adult athlete but so far I’m quite impressed.

Yes, these one http://store.dji.com/product/ronin-m-tilt-bar-extension-rods-30mm . The camera takes most of the space between the tilt bars and if you have a lightweight lens like the 85 1.8 the camera is placed almost aligned with the tilt bars so I recommend to use a L HDMI cable to connect an external monitor, I use the Movi one and is also very flexible and lightweight: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119722-REG/freefly_910_00088_right_angle_mini_hdmi_type.html

I wanted to share a bit my first experience with the 1Dx II from a usability point of view.

I have the 1Dx II since a week and I’m coming from the 1Dx. I shoot mostly sport and action stuff, around 70% photos and the rest video. This camera is really made for people like me that with a single tool can cover most of my needs.

Image quality was already discussed many times so I have nothing  to add here other than confirm that at 4k 60fps the quality is very good but the HD one is nothing to write home. 120fps is usable but not great.

What it really shines is the DPAF, I use a lot the Ronin M and for the first time I’m able to shoot wide open with myself and the subject moving even erratically. I just did a test film with trial bike with the Ronin M and using the 24 1.4 always at 1.4 and most of the shoots came out great. When It was OOF was mostly my mistake in not keeping the athlete within the focus point. I will need to practice more and I will also play around a bit more with the Focus Lock settings. But being the first time out with DPAF, 1.4 and the Ronin I was quite impressed. Something impossible as one man band with a gimbal before.
I did not use Face tracking because I did many shoot laterally and from the back so it is not working. In this case you would need a second operator that reset the focus when the athlete looks away.

Talking from second operator I was surprised by how good is the WiFi touch focus, the latency is quite low considering is WiFi and the frame rate good enough. It is so simple that you can give a tablet to a non “qualified” assistant and he can do the job.

With the extension rod the camera balances very well on the Ronin M, in fact I found a good base balance where I can switch the lenses between 24 1.4, 16-35 2.8 and the 85 1.8 only setting the tilt axis (the easiest axis to balance by simply move the dovetail). So I can do the lens change in 30 seconds.

The “Q” button in video mode allows you to change most of the video related settings from Audio gain, AF mode, picture style, etc.. I normally shoot in M with auto iso, I have the “Set” button to enable exp compensation with the wheel but I wish there was I way to change directly without pressing the “Set” button. It would also be great to be able to change the audio gain via the other wheel. I have also created my own my menu with all the video related settings so with the “Q” and “Menu” button I’m quite fast in changing the settings. The dedicated button to have live view in video or still mode is very handy.

Another thing that I wish it was possible is to have both HDMI out and internal LCD on with the info on both monitors. Unfortunately if you have both on you can have the info only on the LCD. For gimbal usage it would be better the inverse, using the LCD just to change the focus point. Right now while on the gimbal I do it with the joystick and the LCD off. I will maybe try to use the tablet as monitor over WiFi attached on the gimbal but I’m not sure that the latency and frame rate is good enough.

The MJPEG files are big but high quality, surprisingly I can play them back even at 4k 60fps on my notebook with both the media player and canon movie software in real-time. My notebook is a i7-4810MQ CPU 2.80GHz with an NVIDIA Quadro K2100M 2GB vram and SSD. I can even do some editing with Resolve using Caching and a FullHD timeline switching back to 4k for the final rendering. Scrubbing is fast enough but no real-time playback in the edit panel. I wish Resolve would be more optimized. Alternatively you can use optimized media feature and create proxy for editing and then it works. Naturally for serious editing a workstation with the right spec is recommended.

Bottom-line for action & sport videos the combination of 4k 60fps and DPAF makes this a unique camera at the moment.

From dpreview: Like the EOS 80D there's a big improvement in the camera's dynamic range. Canon's move to a design using on-chip analog-to-digital conversion ensures less noise is added before the signal is converted into digital values, meaning it's easier to distinguish between captured information and background noise. In turn, this means more malleable Raw files with more useful information available when you try to process them.

http://***URL removed***/news/8090146652/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-studio-tests

Same chip ???