Django

It's an interesting video by a very respectful DP, but what I gather from his pixel peeping comparisons for the sake of analysis is that 35mm/70mm film, can be identified through various attributes & aberrations (namely inter pixel, spatial and temporal as he categories them). Now one could see these as technically inferior to their high-end (ARRI, RED) digital equivalents, or on the other hand simply as characteristics that gives film photography its analogue charm. That ever so elusive filmic look (grain, softness etc). Funny thing is the motion film vs digital film debate is pretty much the same as film photography vs digital photography debate going on for decades now. In the end it is down to personal taste which you may prefer. Reading parts of his written follow-up is just as interesting as he dives into the relevance of footage transformation as a crucial step pre-color grading in order to better understand another vital component of the 'film look' color science : ON COLOR SCIENCE FOR FILMMAKERS This brings us back to our little world of consumer brand camera equipment and/or sub-$10K cine cams. Color science is often talked about when leaning towards a certain brand or even a certain camera model (i.e Sony's with/without S-Cinetone). Its an often misunderstood, hard to quantify 'secret sauce' of manufacturers. With hybrid cameras getting closer and closer to cine cameras, we start to see color science shifting towards Alexa/Venice emulations and of course RAW options which allows further transformation and push/pull latitude. I think the hybrid/cine gap is really starting to close itself as far as sensors, DR, RS, codecs, resolution and CS with the latest flagship video oriented offerings from Canon, Sony & Panasonic. Over-sharpening & NR does still seem to be a PITA to battle with on some models though.

35mm motion-picture film doesn't struggle to match 4K. It can resolve up to 8K. 70mm can resolve up to 18K. It's part of why top Hollywood filmmakers like Nolan & Tarantino still use it. Even 16mm can resolve 4K fine which is why The Last Dance looks so good even though the footage come from the 90s. Same with pre-digital NFL Films. While there are certainly a lot of constraints with shooting film, scan resolution is no problem by todays digital standards.

@herein2020 so it seems your main gripe with the R6 was overheating. you do mention in that thread you are in a warm/humid environment. it does seem climate affects the issue in combination with the artificial timers. But yeah overheating seems like a serious potential setback on this camera, especially for a hybrid shooter like myself. @gt3rs Yes those are my conclusions as well. (Canon) RAW is just not my thing, I have only used it once on the C200 and that is Canon RAW light. I can't fathom dealing with 8K RAW file sizes. But of course, it is there on R5 as well as 8K and those are nice future proofing features. The upcoming firmware with Clog3 & RAW Light is also promising. Now 4K120p, that is definitely something nice. I love super slo-mo shots (who doesn't?). Also having a 4K (LQ) fallback option is indeed surely a BIG advantage on cameras prone to overheating. I guess R5 is worth the asking price even though I could do away fine with an R6 (considering I'm upgrading from an EOS R).

Those are some good points, especially 4K120p which I forgot to mention. Still not sure I'm willing to pay close to $2k extra though, rather spend that on glass but food for thought!

I'd assume so but who knows with goofy Canon. Regardless the (10-bit) oversampled 4K is what I'm after in the R6.. By the way, here is a review that sorta made me consider the R6:

The R6 can shoot oversampled 4K longer (40mn) than the R5 4K HQ (30mn) and I heard the overheating is much better since the last update but yeah once you do overheat the R6 you are locked out of video mode unlike the R5. Also I think the R5 "date hack" doesn't work on the R6 right? My thinking is I won't be using the R6 for long interviews or anything, mostly short clips and B-cam stuff. But yeah it is hard to know if I will run into being locked out of video mode and when/if that happens it will definitely suck! You're right about the custom movie modes, that will be missed for sure but not really a deal breaker either. Oh another thing the R6 has over the R5 I believe is lowlight.

Long time no post. I've been riding this one out. After some comparative testing I'm leaning towards the R6 as an upgrade to my sold EOS R. Why? First the obvious, it's 2K cheaper and I can't really justify the R5 at this point in time. Second, after some testing the R6 4K (supersampled from 5.5K) footage really isn't that much worse than R5 4K HQ and is much better than R5 4K LQ. Third, I don't need 8K or Raw. Too heavy files, too much editing processing power needed. Fourth, although 45MP could be useful, 20MP will do just fine. The only real downside I see for my needs is the poor RS and a warmer yellow tint on the R6. Anyone else agree/disagree? Oh and yes I know about the overheating & the A7S3 😅

Agreed.

I saw that earlier today.. is the switch from intel to ARM processor good news for h265 editing? I seem to remember iPad Pros could edit h265 no sweat..

for some reason I can't read or even open the h265 files in FCPX they are greyed out?

So I finally got a chance to test drive the R5. The 8K & 4K HQ image quality is just stunning imo. I'm now planning on acquiring the camera, despite the overheat issues (defeatable with the hack). That said the 10-bit h265 log footage doesn't run on my 13" MBP, only on my iMac Pro. Kind of a major bummer when I'm editing/grading on the go. What's the workaround? Any software to transcode h265 into h264?

In defense of the C200, it also introduced 4K60p, internal RAW recording, and Touch DPAF... amongst a host of other features, IO, media and ergonomic enhancements . It was a lot more than just a C100 with 4K. Aside from 10-bit codec, it actually did more than the at the time flagship C300 mk2! And that’s the funny thing with Canon. Lower end models often have better features than flagship models but always have the infamous cripple hammer on some crucial aspect..

As a Canon EOS Cinema owner since the C100 (which I still own alongside C200) this is my dream Canon cine cam. Scratch that, it's my dream cine cam period. I will be selling off my C100/C200 for the C70. Of course perfect it is not, I will be missing Canon RAW Lite, EVF, SDI & custom LUTs. I'll be keeping my FS7 for gigs where EVF, SDI & LUTs are mandatory. I think I might also upgrade EOS R to R5 for RAW/8K B-cam shots. If anyone in EU is looking for a good deal on a mint boxed C200 with CFast media, HMU!

in this video, consensus with Gerald seems to refute his initial dual gain ISO claims. camera applies NR at 16,000 ISO: kinda weird, not sure if its a bug or what (previous A7S models didn't behave like that).

Medium format & cheap don't really associate.. that said the GFX 50R is now only $3500 which places it around FF cams like A7R4/A7S3/R5. Unfortunately the video specs are crap..

The R6 features the same sensor as the 1DX3.. and also shares similar features (both in stills & video) yet costs 1/3 of its price. You're probably right but you just never know with Canon these days..

I have zero doubt it is going to be 10-bit 4:2:2 as even the $2500 R6 has such codec. The pricing however does appear a tad steep for an entry level cine cam although Canon C line has never been cheap..

Cinema cams have active cooling and therefore don’t overheat. You can clearly see the fan vents on the side. Probably no weather sealing though.

The form factor and model number would suggest a price point and segment under the C200, which surely has a mark 2 coming soon. This is basically the super long awaited C100 mk3.

Not the least bit surprised. Canon went through all this trouble to cripple the camera, they weren't going to suddenly remove all those limitations. What they did is loosen the cripple leash a tiny bit, just in order to appear to be doing something in the right direction. I'm betting they'll be unlocking it little by little during the products life cycle. Expect decent HQ recording times in a year or two. Sad state of affairs for early adopters..

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64261516 Horshack reported 69 minutes of 8K after an 11 hour deep freeze. So it would appear that temperature reading does affect the timer, although I’m sorry to hear your attempt didn’t succeed in similar results.

The Tilta cooling system may work for all we know. The deep freeze experiment showed that the R5 timer only seems to get triggered after a certain temp threshold. ...Of course these latest findings prove we don’t even need an external cooling system to begin with!

How about that deep freeze test where the R5 was able to shoot like an hour before overheating warning? Looks like the timer gets triggered after a certain temp threshold and the battery door hack defeats the artificial recovery time. Canon will never apologize just like Apple never did during their numerous scandals like Antennagate where Jobs responded: "Just avoid holding it that way" - led to widespread mockery, and the phrase "you're holding it wrong" still sticks around whenever an Apple product has a fault. Eventually, Steve Jobs held a press conference at Cupertino and announced free bumper cases for all users, saying: "We're not perfect… but we want all our users to be happy." Same with bendgate: Apple responded to Bendgate, stating that it had received only nine complaints of bent devices and that the damage occurring due to regular use was "extremely rare". Apple offered to replace phones that were bent. At best Canon will issue a firmware “fix” claiming “overheat management optimization” or something.

Everyone is so focused on the R5 debacle but stay tuned for some further Canongate reveals as the R6 releases this week..