Django

I had a go at the FX3 and yes finally a Sony mirrorless body I felt comfortable with! The build quality is also a step up and the added air vent is reassuring. I could see myself switching back to Sony from Canon with this body. Paired with a FX/FS cine cam it would be a very strong combo for my line of work.

You must factor price when comparing R6 to the other two cams. For about 2K€ (what I paid for mine) the R6 is a pretty good deal imo. You get oversampled FF 4K, 10-bit 4:2:2, Clog/Clog3, IBIS, DPAF on RF mount. Only thing you lose really from 1DX3 is RAW. Overheating is real though. I've had it happen after around 1h of shooting continuous short 8-bit 4K clips (!) in a cool office. So I simply can't recommend these cams for certain pro applications. I'm still gonna keep the R6 but as a B-cam and for personal / travel purposes. The C-log3 update is quite interesting. the skin tones on the R6 is night & day with regular Clog. I'm really surprised at how much more natural they appear upon grading. Do R5 users notice the same thing? I don't remember such a difference on the C200.

Actually this is probably the most relevant opinion to my user case. I also do a lot of corporate and indeed found the 6KP to be overkill and cumbersome in file size / workflow. That said yes the camera and IQ is fantastic for the price. Battery life is of course essential in this line of work, do you have the grip on the BM? I'd think 3 Sony batteries would be sufficient for at least 3 hours recording no? I didn't mention the C200 which I've owned. If only it had 10-bit internal it would be perfect. The 8-bit 4K is really soft though and the 1Gbps CRL makes BRAW feel ultra light! I sold it and bought an R6 which has excellent 10-bit oversampled FF/S35 4K. Of course the overheating and record time limit means its only good for B-cam or short interviews. Hence my search for an A-cam. C70 ticks all the boxes but the price is a setback imo and I suspect a price drop will come sooner later.

Right, the BM 6K Pro is probably best bang for buck right now as far as IQ. But last commercial project I shot with one was externally post produced and of course they had no idea how to deal with BRAW footage, the terabyte files was also a nightmare to transfer with my slow capped DSL connection, so I ended up having to transcode everything to h264, which of course kinda defeated the whole point of shooting RAW in the first place. +4K RAW even compressed RAW just isn't at all practical for fast turnaround / external post projects. The 6K though allowed for great punch-ins so that's a definite plus. I think in the end the goal would be to own both, lol. They really do suit different projects and workflows. Apples & Oranges really. Thanks to all for the input.

The FS5 II is actually on my radar as well despite it only shoots 10-bit internally in FHD. Why? The eND alone could be a reason. Again I like to shoot fast primes wide open and the auto-eND could open up a world of shooting style. Another reason is it’s fantastic slow-mo capabilities. The end trigger via buffer seems genius. No more switching to 120p and editing through rubbish material for your 8 seconds of super slow-mo. It can even do 4k120 RAW bursts via external and up to 960fps which is insane. Definitely a rather unique camera that even trumps the FS7 (mk1) in some areas despite some codec limitations!

Panasonic themselves basically had to replace/ recall defective grips: https://www.cined.com/panasonic-is-replacing-eva1-grips-with-new-units/ no evf and the LCD was basically a mirror in outdoor use. Sorry but I’ll pick a brand new P6K Pro with warranty over a sketchy used EVA1 any day and will favor BRAW/ProRes & 1500 nit touch display over SDI. But in the end both use EF mount which is kind of a dead end for my various FF lens collection.

EVA1 was DOA when it came out due to EF mount and remains even more so today imo. Doesn’t help that it had build quality issues, no EVF and a terrible LCD display. The P6K Pro is basically a $2300 EVA1 in DSLR format with internal RAW and a quality 5 inch touch display.

I’m not considering it simply cuz it’s out of my price range. It’s in FX6 territory. Besides I already own a R6 that can do FF/S35 10-bit Clog/Clog3, uses RF mount, has DPAF, records to dual SD cards and has IBIS which the C70 doesn’t. With the vari-ND adapter R6 even gives you pre lens ND support for your EF glass. I just don’t see the point in investigating an extra 5.500€ just to gain extra battery life and a stop or two of DR. At least the P6K brings you BRAW/ProRes and 6K resolution.. for less than half the asking price. C70 should really be priced lower so it would actually compete with P6K, FX3 etc.. placing it above R5 which can do 8K RAW is nonsensical imo.

They did give it a rather nice follow-up: But I'm pretty sure that cam was also a flop at the $5K pricing with no internal 10-bit. That said, I find the DVX200 sexy as hell in a throwback MINIDV/3CCD cam way.. and I'm sure in the right hands this was/is a very capable and surely fun to shoot with cam..

Lens wise I’m all over the place: EF L series, Zeiss Bâtis E-mount, Leica M, Nikon AI-S etc.. As for manual focus, well I did an interview recently on the BM 6K with the Sigma 18-35. I’d say 80% shots were in focus but once you punch in there was at least a good 20% shots slightly OOF (as in focus on the nose instead of the eye). It’s actually lot more noticeable on 6K resolution were accurate focusing becomes real critical. Having your subject at +2m isn’t always optimal either especially on a medium wide like the 18-35. But yeah it’s not like the FS7’s AF was glorious like Canon DPAF or latest gen Sony’s. But it has saved my ass on more than a few one man run n gun situations.

As for FX6, not interested. I'm done paying full retail on "popular" cine cams. Too much investment lost already during pandemic. Not even ready to drop 4-5K on a R5/A7S3/FX3. It's either FS7 or 6K Pro I've decided.

@IronFilm I'm in both categories so the choice really isn't that easy. @seanzzxx I enjoy manual focusing as much as the other guy, and always had a follow focus rig on the BMPCC6K shoots with very pleasing results. That said there is no doubt AF can come in very handy for run n gun, gimbal or even solo interviews.. especially when shooting wide open on fast prime lens which is how I like to shoot most of the time.

Well fortunately I have hands-on experience with both cams and hence a well rounded idea of the pros & cons of each. It remains a tough choice as they excel in slightly different areas. The BM is closer to DSLR form-factor and the bright 5" touch screen is a major convenience. It has cheap modern storage options including straight to SSD USB-C recording. Main cons are no AF and EF mount. The FS7 is a much heavier cine cam but has shoulder mount rig capability. It has more pro I/Os: 2 SDI and 2 full XLR, audio level wheels, top handle with shotgun mic support etc. AF & E-mount are major pros for me. Main cons are small 3.5" display, slow clunky OS/menu (although dedicated buttons/switches mean less menu diving), no internal RAW/Pro Res, XQD media. IQ wise here is what I've rounded: FS7 : 4K DCI XAVC-I 10-bit 4 :2 :2 All-I (250mbps) CINE EI RS : 14ms DR : 12.1 @ 800ISO BMPCC 6K : 6K DCI BRAW & Prores RS : 19.8ms DR : 11.8 @ 400ISO / 10 @ 3200 In real use, a cleaner sharper more detailed IQ from the BM when shooting ISO400. 6K allows for greater punch-in capabilities. But with no AF, any focusing error and 6K RAW means nothing if your subject is OOF.

I actually love the FS7 ergos - VF loupe aside which I never use. Again its one of the rare modern budget cine cams you can shoulder mount ENG style. IQ wise, the BM has higher resolution and shoots Raw but on the highest DCI 4K XAVC-I Cine EI setting the FS7 is still capable of spitting out a really nice detailed filmic IQ imo with tons of headroom for grading. Also yeah the 3200 dual ISO setting on the BM is a bit meh, you definitely need to stick to 400 to get the highest IQ/DR. For the price new, the BM is definitely a no brainer but again the FS7 is still a workhorse in 2021 and E-mount is just so much more versatile than EF at this point imo.

Then again FS7 maybe not so obsolete when you consider this chart: surprisingly not a black magic cam in sight! here is the full article: https://ymcinema.com/2021/07/12/cannes-film-festival-2021s-cameras-diversity-is-the-key/ not just docus either.. this feature was shot on FS7 with Zeiss Super Speed primes: Gotta love how that camera balances for shoulder mounted shots..

I sold my C200/FS7 during down time of the pandemic. Work is picking up again now and I need a pro A-Cam for client work. I was sold on getting a BMPCC6K Pro after shooting with it for couple gigs but I'm actually hesitating to go back to the good old FS7. 6K & RAW is very nice but EF mount limits the lens possibilities so much. I still have my metabones EF speed booster which gives the FS7 pseudo FF. I also love the fat 250mbps XAVC-I codec in Cine EI mode and the FS7's AF is actually pretty smooth on native lenses. Price wise the FS7s are really cheap at the moment (maybe 800 more than a P6K Pro) but it feels kinda strange buying a used 2015 cine cam in 2021. The 5" touch screen and double ISO 6K sensor on the 6K Pro probably makes much better sense for future-proofing. Thoughts?

excellent, also looks like more natural skin tones with less saturated look than clog1:

Pretty excited about CLOG3 for R6. I'm away from home right now though. Did R5 users note an increase in DR with the Clog3 update (vs Clog)?

There is definitely something strange going on with Canons R5/R6 10-bit 4:2:2 Clog files. None of my Macs can even play them. At all. Including my iMac Pro. I have to transcode it all to ProRes with EditReady. It's definitely a giant PITA. Why is this so? is it because 10-bit 4:2:2 h265?? Do the new M1 Macs handle these files better? Might have to go to Apple store with a thumb drive and see for myself.

As an R6 user that upgraded from an EOS R, yes there are some strange missing things that make the upgrade kinda feel like a downgrade in some areas. But in the end, for my needs, its a very clear upgrade: oversampled 4K with no crop, IBIS, internal 10-bit 4:2:2, 120 fps FHD. If you add DPAF to the mix, well there really isn't much competition for those particular features at that price point. Of course if you can stretch your budget to an A7S3 you get a more reliable camera and 4K120p but on the stills side you're down to 12MP. Not that the R6 is a MP beast but 20MP is a decent balance. Biggest problem in the end with R6 is the overheating which limits it to only certain types of applications. I do use mine professionally as my C-cam for short product shots, BTS footage etc.. and as a stills camera (all my Canon DSLR flash accessories etc integrate perfectly). It's always a bit of a compromise though with Canon it feels. Sometimes I do regret not fully switching systems but I just don't gel with Sony mirrorless ergonomics and CS. Love the FX/FS cine line though. My next purchase will probably be BM 6K Pro, I'm kind of done with consumer hybrids as A-cams after shooting with one.

I've been doing some commercial shoots with the BM 6K's lately and the 6K PRO will probably be my next camera purchase. For the money it is kind of a no-brainer: 6K BRAW / ProRes, Dual ISO Super35 sensor, 5" bright LCD, best GUI, SD/CFAST/SSD storage options & internal NDs. That said, I do agree the biggest drawback is EF mount. While there are a large amount of EF cine lenses, they're on the bigger side and a lot of the more recent compact cine lenses including anamorphic lenses such as the SIRUI series are mirrorless mount exclusives. One of the big attractions of the 6K/6K Pro is 6K 2.4:1 ratio recording but I can't seem to find any affordable anamorphic EF lenses? But for client work, 6K RAW is really impressive and the cropping capability kind of a game changer as far as I'm concerned. Many of us had hoped the R5 would give you that in a hybrid but my experience with R6 is that its simply too unreliable to use on a commercial shoot. The Canons are good for b-cams / BTS purposes. As for ProRes vs H264/H265, while on many recent computers the processing difference may not be too obvious with 4K, I can assure you that with 6K its night & day as far as rendering, editing, playback. My iMac Pro struggles a bit with h264/h265 6K footage while ProRes cuts like cheese and renders 20x faster.

Yeah no 4K option. Only FHD doesn't overheat. Indoors. Average room temperature. I mean it's nothing new, overheating is well documented and I believe R6 actually has longer 4K recording time than R5's 4KHQ. Still obviously a concern for long applications. Can't find the video, you got a link? Only dedicated fan I remember and would consider was the Tilta cooling kit: But it looks like they abandoned the project..

Well I had my first overheat yesterday during an interview. I thought it was going to be a 15-30mn max job but it ended up dragging on over an hour. Overheat came on just at the end so I was saved but cool down time was about 30mn. I don't think I can recommend this camera for that type of application.

Yup, kind of disappointing they didn't think of making the 10-bit codec easier to edit. Would have been a safe way to make the R5/R6 more competitive with A7S3. Also let down with no Clog3 for R6/1DX3 owners even though it is rumoured to come later (i.e. another 6 months).

Is the new lower bitrate option in Clog h264 or 4:2:0 h265?