HelsinkiZim

I have been filming weddings for 10 years. Ask yourself:
Am I beauty or am I documentary?
If you are beauty then go with full frame (doesn't matter by whom, get shallow DOF).
If you are doc, then get a c100.
Develop an instinct for schedule changes. eg. When everyone is going to the next room, and when. Even if on paper,, it always changes. Ask people where they are going and why.
Coordinate with the bride's best friend. Groom knows nothing and his friends are there to get wasted.
Develop a signal so your. B cam can. Go wide when u go telephoto eg. Ring on finger
Everything on slider, tripod or gimbal. Go hand held at your own peril.
Seek perfection.
Oh, and don't fuck up the dance by being embarrassed to light it.
 

I have been filming weddings for 10 years. Ask yourself:
Am I beauty or am I documentary?
If you are beauty then go with full frame (doesn't matter by whom, get shallow DOF).
If you are doc, then get a c100.
Develop an instinct for schedule changes. eg. When everyone is going to the next room, and when. Even if on paper,, it always changes. Ask people where they are going and why.
Coordinate with the bride's best friend. Groom knows nothing and his friends are there to get wasted.
Develop a signal so your. B cam can. Go wide when u go telephoto eg. Ring on finger
Everything on slider, tripod or gimbal. Go hand held at your own peril.
Seek perfection.
Oh, and don't fuck up the dance by being embarrassed to light it.
 

I have been filming weddings for 10 years. Ask yourself:
Am I beauty or am I documentary?
If you are beauty then go with full frame (doesn't matter by whom, get shallow DOF).
If you are doc, then get a c100.
Develop an instinct for schedule changes. eg. When everyone is going to the next room, and when. Even if on paper,, it always changes. Ask people where they are going and why.
Coordinate with the bride's best friend. Groom knows nothing and his friends are there to get wasted.
Develop a signal so your. B cam can. Go wide when u go telephoto eg. Ring on finger
Everything on slider, tripod or gimbal. Go hand held at your own peril.
Seek perfection.
Oh, and don't fuck up the dance by being embarrassed to light it.
 

Hey, has anyone here actually flown to another country to get a camera and take a free vacation? Some of the US/ EU price differences are the price of a transatlantic flight...

I would go with the Nikon D750 instead of a Canon, unless you are shooting Raw, or using a 70D or 80D for the DPAF. 

I once went to Stockholm in person to pick up the Panasonic G7 and saved me 230 or so bucks (had to be there anyways, but still, http://www.prisjakt.nu proved helpful). I ordered the G80 from UK and for EU body prices got included the 12-60mm, a Panasonic 64GB card and a battery grip. It does help to look around. Usually I check http://geizhals.eu . I find it very helpful to get some oversight.
That said... 1999 for either E-M1 Mark II or GH5 is a matter of perspective. So here's mine...
No DSLR for me. I don't like mirrors and I don't like optical viewfinder. I'd rather just have an EVF and excellent liveview; what you see is what you get. Plus, mirrorless cameras just about standard give you peaking, zebras and all that good stuff No fullframe camera for me. What fullframe cameras would there be? Let's see... eh... Sony. Well have you seen what those bodies retail for? And then you need big bulky 35mm covering glass that ain't cheap either. Don't know. Just not for me S35/APS-C. Now we're talking. Excellent. Yes, I'll have one, thank you! What can I choose from again? Ah, more Sony. Well... they sound good on paper, but in practice... between the overheating, rolling shutter, color issues, poor design and its price... there's not really that much that makes it an attractive choice. I think I'll pass until they come up with something a little more reliable and enjoyable. Fujifilm XT-2. Ooh, me likey. Too bad there's no sensor stabilization, vari-angle touchscreen and headphone-jack on the camera body. Tough. Canon? The new EOS-M5... overpriced stripped down 80D much? Maybe cool as a gimbal AF tool, otherwise nope. Nikon? Not making anything. Samsung? Dead; although the NX1 is pretty sweet. But you know... the XT-2 would pull ahead of it. Well... that's kinda that. Unless you want to go proper cinema style camera and throw a couple of thousand bucks at it, but at the cost of losing a innocent looking versatile hybrid system that packs a punch That leaves... drumroll please! Micro Four Thirds, MFT, M43, M4/3. Now... I kinda made my peace with the 4/3" sensor a long time ago. Hell, some even accepted the limited conditions the BMPCC would shine in. S16. And as such I don't need ISO12800. I mean, ISO1600-6400 would be kinda nice. Don't really like to go beyond ISO1250 right now due to the decrease in peformance. But somehow, you just make it work. You work around the sensitivity by lighting, by using more sensitive lenses. You work around the crop. The shallow depth of field. With a smaller sensor you kinda lose some color accuracy, dynamic range... I mean, it's not like you're not paying for it somehow, but you manage. In return you get to have one of the most versatile systems out there. With small bodies and small pancake primes. But you can also rig things up and use speedboosters. And especially with the features in the new E-M1 Mark II (which I feel they should've just called a E-M1 Pro/E-M Pro to avoid the negative backslash it being so much more expensive than its predecessor), you now have one of the most complete cameras on the market out there. Compared to a mirrorless APS-C Sony... it has a far better choice concerning lenses native to the system and sensor format, it has that vari-angle screen, dual cardslot, superior sensor stabilization, neglectable rolling shutter... and most importantly... it's reliable. Compared to either XT-2 or NX1 it has the vari-angle touchscreen (frontfacing option) and 5-axis sensor stabilization. You just can't really fault the E-M1 Mark II on hardware level. The GH5... we don't know much yet, but it looks like we're going to keep that GH4-styling. That's good and bad, because I was actually hoping that with the GH5 they would really re-think what they wanted the top of the line GH-camera to be for general video production, as well as more advanced cinematic application. So I was thinking a different style body, more room, better interface, more ports, bigger ports and all that good stuff. Still though, even with a GH4-style body and souped up internals, this could be something very different. We already kinda know that its sensor and processing allows for internal 4K at 60/50p and 4:2:2 10-bit at 30/25/24p. There's 6K Photo. If the E-M1 Mark II's processing and speed is any indication of what the GH5 might be like, we're really getting some performance. And people who've been using the GH4 as a production tool, will gladly embrace the improvements in noise control and overal image quality that has already gotten a boost with the arrival of the G7, GX80 and G80. Not to mention the probable inclusion of sensor stabilization. Rolling shutter could be neglegible as well. Super slowmo. Who knows? Ultimately though, this is a tool not to be underestimated and of great value to independent and indie filmmakers, production houses and the sorts. Would I say 1999 is pricey? Yes, most definitely is. But I think the E-M1 Mark II makes sense. There's all this Olympus PRO glass and these people need a camera to go with it. It's not some incremental upgrade, it's a new game altogether and offers things in a complete package we haven't seen yet before. To those who think it's not worth it, they have a great selection of alternatives... the E-M1 with firmware upgrade is pretty solid, E-M5 Mark II, E-M10 Mark II... Panasonic G80. Talking about that last one, that is a fine camera for people looking for a serious hybrid camera that don't neccessarily be using the more pro applications such as V-LOG L. Pay less, only use what you need. The GH5 on the other hand is the ultimate video production tool, by the looks of it. Either used stand alone or rigged up, if it sells for 1999 it will provide shooters with a the most complete video package under 2000 bucks yet. If they would tell me 'we have a promo going on, one time offer... we see you have the GH5 in your basket, we'll change that to a URSA Mini 4K (that you're not allowed to sell) but leave the 1999 price. Which camera should we ship to you?'. I'd probably go with the GH5. I just really like the idea of a camera that I could use with a 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens and at the same time could rig up to be a set-up too legit to quit. But that's just me. You also got to consider that because of the pro features, less people will have use for it... and in turn therefor they sell less units and need to increase prices. As has been said before, we're just a marginal piece of the pie... the people that care a lot about shooting video with stills cameras, so when they cater to us, I'm really excited. And currently I see the E-M1 Mark II and the GH5 as the most complete packages out there for hybrid shooting with a video edge. There's always things that can be improved, but that's going to remain to be the case.

Hey, has anyone here actually flown to another country to get a camera and take a free vacation? Some of the US/ EU price differences are the price of a transatlantic flight...

Yeah, its not a new idea - but I was more inspired by Born into Brothels and I cant give the details of the project in genereral but it is a month long project more similar to what Zana did with the homeless children...
 
Yep, we covered sound. Genereally what I was summising is that - theory indoors, tech in the field...

Solid topics here and confirmed what I was thinking about keeping it simple. Thanks for the advice!
Okay, still working on my notes but so far here are the topics I am going to cover... tonight I am gathering reference material and diagrams. Any suggestions would be grand, I will share the finished document with you all in case it may help some of you do something similar in future. I will also give my thoughts on what worked and what didn't later in the week. The kids will have access to my company equipment for the exercises - GH4, Micro Cinema Camera, Shark slider, iFootage Mini Jib, Zhiyun Crane and other stuff.
Camera
What do you know about cameras?
Resolution HD and 4K
What makes a camera a good camera? - dynamic range, moire, resolution, noise colour, control, Different cameras for different jobs
Links to cheap and good cameras
i.F.A.S.T. (iso, focus, aperture, shutter speed and temperature) Doll Exercises, Private Ryan opener viewing, relationships - aperture, iso and shutter diagrams
 
Light
Importance of light
Colour temperatures (daylight and tungsten and compensation)
3 point lighting (screenshots of build up - excersice on doll)
Controlling light (working with natural light i.e. the sun, reflector and diffusion excersise)
 
Composition
LS, MS, CU, XCU illustrations
Law of 3rds illustration
Headroom illustration
Zero Horizon illustration
Depth of Field illustration
Breaking the rules (dutch angle, low angle power shot) illustrations, google interesting shot compositions
Exercises in above
 
Movement and support
Tripod
Rig
Slider
Steadicam/ Gimbal
Jib
Exercises and shot examples from youtube i.e. screenrant, andyax, etc
Never shoot handheld (show rolling shutter jello, jitters)
Cheap phone solutions (links to selfy stick jib, cage, mini slider)
 
 

Hi, last xmas I watched all of Werner Herzogs youtube content (having been watching his films for the last 10 years), so I know his methodology pretty well. I love how he suggests that you should get a job as a bouncer at a strip-club rather than go to film school and how you don't need to ask permission to film anything these days - I am going to quote him of both of these comments...
Thanks!
I think I am going to take that course, and Aaron Sorkins - have you taken that one Liam?

Maybe check these out first before paying as Liam is suggesting its opinion based, and these youtube videos are full of those...
 

Hi, last xmas I watched all of Werner Herzogs youtube content (having been watching his films for the last 10 years), so I know his methodology pretty well. I love how he suggests that you should get a job as a bouncer at a strip-club rather than go to film school and how you don't need to ask permission to film anything these days - I am going to quote him of both of these comments...
Thanks!
I think I am going to take that course, and Aaron Sorkins - have you taken that one Liam?

Solid topics here and confirmed what I was thinking about keeping it simple. Thanks for the advice!
Okay, still working on my notes but so far here are the topics I am going to cover... tonight I am gathering reference material and diagrams. Any suggestions would be grand, I will share the finished document with you all in case it may help some of you do something similar in future. I will also give my thoughts on what worked and what didn't later in the week. The kids will have access to my company equipment for the exercises - GH4, Micro Cinema Camera, Shark slider, iFootage Mini Jib, Zhiyun Crane and other stuff.
Camera
What do you know about cameras?
Resolution HD and 4K
What makes a camera a good camera? - dynamic range, moire, resolution, noise colour, control, Different cameras for different jobs
Links to cheap and good cameras
i.F.A.S.T. (iso, focus, aperture, shutter speed and temperature) Doll Exercises, Private Ryan opener viewing, relationships - aperture, iso and shutter diagrams
 
Light
Importance of light
Colour temperatures (daylight and tungsten and compensation)
3 point lighting (screenshots of build up - excersice on doll)
Controlling light (working with natural light i.e. the sun, reflector and diffusion excersise)
 
Composition
LS, MS, CU, XCU illustrations
Law of 3rds illustration
Headroom illustration
Zero Horizon illustration
Depth of Field illustration
Breaking the rules (dutch angle, low angle power shot) illustrations, google interesting shot compositions
Exercises in above
 
Movement and support
Tripod
Rig
Slider
Steadicam/ Gimbal
Jib
Exercises and shot examples from youtube i.e. screenrant, andyax, etc
Never shoot handheld (show rolling shutter jello, jitters)
Cheap phone solutions (links to selfy stick jib, cage, mini slider)
 
 

+1
Like he said. I would really consider the audience too. I understand that we love topics like cameras, lenses, framing, editing, etc. BUT, most these guys who are probably taking this course for an easy A... probably won't be interested in the stuff that  we talk about daily.
In my opinion, consider the audience and the time limit of the workshop. Then show enough to arose curiosity so they can learn all the other stuff on their own.
If I was you, I would ask everyone what's their favorite movie, then get a consensus of one popular movie. Throw the trailer of that movie through projector (via YouTube) and breakdown the trailer... scene by scene. Make it interactive and at the end... tell them about camera, lens, lighting, composition, etc.

sorry, yes I did finish the course, but I skipped most of the homework. I did a writing assignment - something like write a script for an hour without stopping to think, if possible, just let it flow (but I didn't listen to classical music during, like he said to). I had to let go of the idea that he was the authority instead of just a guy who has definitely made some good films, because that was stressing me out, and I would never have gotten past lesson two.

The importance of planning. And then the importance of flexibility.
I think, too, something about how the footage on the card goes through an editing process in order to deliver the product they will want to show people (i.e. they are not the same thing). Even little tips like the shot doesn't have to start when the camera "start" button is pressed - but it can't start before that point!
Have fun.

Just tell 'em that what they're shooting should be motivated by the story/emotion it's trying to convey. And always ask yourself the 'what?', 'how?', 'why?' of things.
Everything begins with a 'set'. Doesn't have to be a legit studio set, it just describes the location you're going to have your shoot at. Pick/create a setting that itself supports the story; to make it believable within its own reality. Often when people are starting out, they care too much about the camera and technicalities and forget about things like location and wardrobe/props (like kids (in their everyday clothing) playing actual warfare (guns, bangs, bullet holes, blood) in their urban neighbourhood (without any real interaction with/response from their environment)). Once you have your story, create a universe where that story is taking place, be consistent and make it believable ('believable' doesn't neccessarily mean 'realistic', I could imagine a comedic take on previous scenario and kids are playing warfare with cardboard costumes on and having cardboard guns that shoot Skittles, people coming out of their homes to collect the yummy richochets). Thing is... you've got to really sell it to the viewer, suck them into your reality and make sure they're not thrown off.
On set, before any legit shoot, there are checks for 'light', 'sound' & 'camera'. When everything is in order there's the call for 'action'. These are the principles you need to think about. The impact of light (and shadows), sound design (maybe more so a 'post' thing to think about (foley/SFX/ADR/music)), camera set-up/use and the actual action (it's about 'motion picture' after all). What mood are you trying to set and how do these individual elements work together to create said mood?
When you introduce a change... make sure it's done with purpose. A lot of times when people get new gear, they start using it... because they have it, not because the story asks for it. It gets boring quickly if every shot is a slider shot. It's just too much. Don't be a slave to your gear, let the gear work for you. Do things with moderation or when it actually supports the story to do it otherwise. Think more about your framing, about the movement of the camera and that of the subjects... what can you do with that? What does it (subconciously) tell the audience/what impression would that scene make?
I think we all agree... you can shoot something enjoyable on $0 budget and a potato, if that potato was used to tell a interesting and engaging story, that took its audience's mind offa things for a second and made them experience 'something'. Sometimes I say, it kinda is emotion pictures. It's conveying mood and emotion. It's visual storytelling. It's art. Like a painting, but one that is in motion. There's a mood, there might be a message, there's room for the viewers to explore these things for themselves, wonder and try to figure it out, but hardly anything ever is something completely random without a pay-off or reveal. Just make sure there's some motivation behind what you're doing and you'll be fine. In the end it doesn't really matter all that much if you shoot something on a RED or a Panasonic Lumix... in 1080p or 4K... or in potato quality. Just make sure that what's in front of the camera is solid and makes sense... that's the bigger picture.
Technically... most you might ought to know, if applicable at all (smartphone or GoPro could just be as easy as hitting the red record button), is just the basics of light capturing. Framerate, shutterspeed, aperture & ISO, with the possible addition of light or ND... what each does and the relationship between them. Maybe lens characteristics (effects and use of focal length, compression, focus and separation). And how to edit everything together in post... especially when and how to make effective cuts. And well, it does help to make sure the audio doesn't completely suck before they show it to anyone. But that about it. Technical information is always at your disposal. Ideas and creativity... they need to be sparked. It's much more the global understanding why one would do certain things a certain way, rather than knowing specific technical details.

As teenagers, they will probably already have a good idea of what kind of things they like. Maybe it would be good to ask them about their favourite scenes in their favourite films and then teach them some of the techniques used to create that scene?

Got it, thanks! Not assholly at all.  Perfect argument: 
Bullet point... benefit... close.
How it should be always:-)
Edit: if you worked for Tiffen you  would have just made a sale! 

The red capes are coming.... the red capes are coming...
 

Yeah, people claim to get 1.25-1.5 hours out of it, but I never saw that. Of course, to be fair, I was using Wasabi batteries and it was blazing hot when I was using it... if heat makes a difference. But, I use the same batteries, in the same weather, with my XC10 and I'm getting 1.5-2 hours out of them and that's with a screen at its brightest with 5-Axis turned on.
The other big issue I had with the Micro is the required rigging. Obviously, you need a screen, but the screen turns a camera the size of a Rubik's Cube into Frankenstein's monster.
And since my style of filmmaking is more slow burn, I attack principal photography like it's B-Unit. So a lot of run and gun shooting where I am the crew. So, I would shoot a couple shots at one location and then load up the truck and head 5-10 minutes down the road for the next. With the cumbersome rig, I was forced to break it down in between locations, and that gets old quick.
And then finally lens options. At the time all I owned was vintage, full frame lenses or vintage c-mounts. I had no interest in a speedbooster, so I was primarily using c-mounts. The 25mm Voigtlander was the best combo I used with it, but I sold it to help offset the costs of the monitor and the camera. 
Like I said, I probably should have bought a pocket and used it out of box with the 12-35mm OIS Panasonic handheld, and/or c-mounts with a monopod. I just hate the thought of paying a grand for a camera that cost $500 2 years ago. 
But it's my own fault, Zak warned everyone that if you prefer the DSLR form factor then you won't like the Micro. At the time, I didn't realize how much I liked the DSLR form factor. I've actually come so full circle that I prefer DSLRs now to even smaller mirrorless cameras.
But even now, I'll go back and look at some of my clips and I am mind blown every time. The ProRes alone is freaking amazing. And the Raw 3:1 is just insane. I shoot a lot of footage in the woods (horror type of stuff) and the difference Raw makes with foliage and tree bark is insane compared to any modern consumer price equivalent. 
Btw, have you ever used the Pocket with a native lens? Am curious to know how that focus button works.

I generally use a small monitor and for critical setups, I use the camera's LCD for framing and color, and use the montior at 1:1 with peaking on, and look for eyelashes/eye catchlights/pores/ to get best focus. Most people seem to have found that even if a recorder can do 422, if it's getting 420, the benefits aren't always worth the extra gear and cost and hassle. Metaphor alert: I can record a tiny AM radio into ProTools with an Apogee preamp and killer mic - it's still gonna sound like a tiny AM radio. The recorder isn't getting a raw signal, it's getting a visually-compressed feed that hasn't been compressed data-wise.
Yep, NX1; it's on a set of rails I cobbled together out of various bits - I really want two risers from tripod-to-rails and two risers from rails to baseplate - I find heavy lenses cause the whole rig to sag with just one riser, which is a nightmare. It has a Manfrotto 577 QR on top - everything's manfrotto QR so I can pull the camera from the rails (steadicam) or stick the whole rig on a crane or slider. The rig itself is 577 and the camera is 577'd as well. I can stick front handles and shoulder mount on it in a second, too.
Decent 2-stage matte box without the flags that day (that Matthews flag in the shot was blocking the LED hair light from hitting the lens); Fotga DPII follow focus (amazing value, that thing!!) with whip, Nikkor 28-70 2.8 (known as "the beast" in some circles) with a rubber hood - I use rubber hoods vs donuts or knickers, very fast to squish 'em against the matte box. if I'm doing focus pulls, I add a lens support and "lift" the front of the lens enough to kill any play - DSLR lenses tend to jump up when you start a follow focus pull.
I use a 90° rail block and an extra piece of rod to mount the DR60 next to the camera, found a 1/4-20 adjustable rail piece on eBay that lets me tilt the recorder. The recorder has a 90° headphone jack extender to get the headphone cable clear of the recorder controls. That's an Anker USB battery which powers the DR all day.
The monitor is a Marshall 5", has 1:1, peaking, and blue-only to check color with a source of bars. The mic is an AT 4053b in a Rode blimp. Killer mic, really detailed and worth every penny vs. a Rode or cheapie. Tons of presence. I use an XLR on-off barrel switch to get the mic right to the front and gain a couple inches (the blimp is expecting a shotgun...)
I don't use a cage, don't really need to bolt the kitchen sink to my camera and I like to be able to go from tripod to crane to steadicam very quickly. I have a simple railblock cable lock that holds a short HDMI cable and a short 1/8 headphone extension, so I plug the monitor and camera-synch-audio into those vs hunting for tiny ports with a flashlight, less cycles on the ports, protects from snagging, etc. I really try to minimize change-up time.
Tripod is a Manfrotto with 503 (no panning at this gig) - it's taken a hell of a beating from sticking an 8' Kessler on it for years and will someday likely explode in a pile of springs and oil, but a decent head. I have a couple smaller tripods as well, nothing super-pricey (I got my film-school son one of those "fancier" fluid tripods... and then got myself one, amazing for $150 or so. Still want to get a sachtler or something...)
Cases are ever-changing and I pack per-gig to try for the "one cart in" thing - pelicans, eBay pelican knockoffs (saves some bucks!), and I got an amazing deal on a used 4x5 view camera custom case that the entire rig can go in, completely assembled, with room for 4x4's and lenses and so on - AWESOME to just lift the rig out and click it onto a tripod and roll. It's a very big case though so only goes to bigger gigs. I have a wheeled case from Cool-Lights that was the only thing I've found to reasonably pack two quad biax units, or one and a bunch of stuff. Generally takes one quad and also the HID softbox and ballast stuff, I know when I walk in if I need the bigger kick of the HID. But the quads are just the shit when 1k will do, I use metal binder clips and stick a sheet or two of diffusion across the barn doors, instant softbox - in fact, the barn doors will fold up with diffusion clipped on, talk about fast! it's not a "real" kino and needs 1/4 CTB and 1/8 minus green to hit clean 5200k or so, I just leave that on.
Lately I've been thinking more about popping faces from backgrounds - if there's a window with greenery, say, I'll put more magenta on the key and manually WB - the camera kicks up the green, and since the BG isn't affected by the gelled light, it gets greener and more saturated in the greens. You'll blow the gag if your key hits other visible stuff in the shot, but overall, I've been working on cooling down backgrounds more, since faces are warm-toned - gets more pop, more 3D look, and our brains tend to say "warmer=closer, cooler=distant". If someone is really pale, I might go the opposite, bluer key and the BG gets warm. Sometimes I manually white balance through1/4 or 1/8 CTB (actually I have an old 77mm camera filer that's very mild cooling and use that) which slightly warms the whole scene. Kind of feel like that's me "next step" for some of this stuff.
Whew, hope that helps!
 
 

The verdict from users seems to be coming through that this might be the best tool so far for mirrorless cameras in the affordable price range. Maybe not so much if you are shooting with a DSLR, but given that you can get a Sony a5000 with lens for £279, you might as well get a dedicated camera for gimbal shooting if you normally shoot with something bigger, looking at the money you save with this gimbal over anything else that is as reliable.

In that case, I'd highly recommend ITV Studio's Shetland as shown by BBC.
 

Television only appears to be currently much better than film if you limit what you watch to mainstream American features. 
The only one of those I'd rate in the top ten of the year it released is Gravity. I'd also disagree with the assessment of Hateful Eight as basically a super hero film - it has much more in common with theatre and slow burn horror (looking at you, The Thing).