mercer

Just get an R7, if you're in the US, they're on sale now. 

I've been running some tests over the past 6 months or so with different cameras and lenses trying to simplify my entire workflow and gear. Over the years, in search of the perfect camera/lens(es) combo(s) I've become a slave to the gear that collects dust in my closet.

Anyway, I feel like I know which direction best suits me, but I figured I'd share some of my results.

Here are a couple frames from the Sigma FP and Nikkor 24mm f/2 ai-s lens. I've never really been a huge fan of wide angle lenses but there is a good reason to have one in my kit. On other cameras, I have found the Nikon lens to be lacking and it's flaws show, but I could always recognize that there is something funky and great about the lens, especially wide open. It wasn't until I shot it with the FP that I saw its true potential...

My color work probably needs some tweaks, as they look a little too contrasty for my normal tastes.

I just picked up an old Pentax DSLR for stills, film is just too expensive to keep shooting regularly. Hopefully, the magic of CCD will give me a little of that filmic image quality I fell in love with while shooting negatives.

@Andrew Reidare you still planning on starting a photography sister site to eosHD?

4 minutes ago, PPNS said:

i've done it a bunch. not going to pretend these are amazing or anything, but it's absolutely justifiable to light boring shit this way

Nice, those look good. Subtle. For some reason I was imagining more negative fill like some kind of film noir interview. 

On 2/26/2023 at 7:09 AM, canonlyme said:

@mercer since I haven't seen you / been on here for a while: How is it going with your minolta lens journey? 🙂 I am contemplating buying a 100mm 2.5 minolta to complete my minolta set. If I remember correctly you and your friend on the harbour sold me on some of the minolta lenses couple years back. 

Hey sorry I just noticed this. I still have a few Minolta lenses. I can't use many with my 5D3, but there are a couple that can be easily modified. I believe the one you're referring to from the harbour is the 58mm 1.4. It's a great lens, especially what I paid for it. It's an older model so the coatings aren't as good as some of their MD lenses, but it has a specific look, like most Minolta lenses.

I started shooting some film stills and got a great deal on an old XD11 that had a 35mm 1.8 attached to it. I recently used the lens with the Sigma FP and got some pretty good results. I think the older MC version may be a bit better but the MD versions are so tiny and light that they're hard to not like if you can find one for a good price. Another one I always liked, but don't own anymore was the 28mm f/2. I had the new MD version and it was excellent. I like a lot of the new MD version for their smaller size and more modern coatings.

With that said, I have been building a set of Nikkors so my Minolta obsession has been put on hold. I also don't know how much longer I'll have a camera that can use my MDs.

Here's a shot from the 35mm 1.8 MD on the FP...

Idk, as much as I like the idea of putting the camera facing portion in shadow, for a corporate interview, it may be a harder sell to clients?

On 4/11/2023 at 1:12 PM, PannySVHS said:

Does the Gh6 provide a 1.4 crop mode for giving it a S16 sensor width? For what I know it only has a 2x digizoom making suitable for 2/3 c-mount, b3 and b4 lenses. Love what i see regarding color from the Gh6. GH5ii is even more mysterious.

No Prores LT and nor Prores in some 4K modes is akward. This should have been an all in camera of what the hardware is capable of.

I had heard it has a 1.5x crop mode but I'm just investigating it right now. As far as ProRes... sure LT would have been nice, but I'd probably end up shooting HQ anyway because why not? You'd still have to use a CF Express card probably, so I may as well get the most data possible at that point. It does C4K and 1080p, up to 60p, in ProRes... what other modes would you want it in?

With the dropping price, I must say I am thinking about pulling the trigger on it.

On 4/11/2023 at 5:42 AM, BTM_Pix said:

Did you try adding “Cinematic vs iPhone vs ARRI vs Full Frame smash that like button buy my LUT that I created with ChatGPT should you still buy this vintage one year old camera in 2023” to your search term ?

Haha! Adding cinematic helped a little.

It's a shame what YouTube has become and that Vimeo is barely even used any more.

On 4/10/2023 at 9:36 AM, hyalinejim said:

The issue was with light streaking when a bright area is adjacent to a dark area. I was able to reproduce it on my cam but never saw it in real world footage. I'm not sure if some cameras are affected more than others, but people were having conniptions about it on FB and YT.

Good to know, thanks.

On 4/10/2023 at 9:36 AM, hyalinejim said:

I think it's such a pity that phase AF did not make into the GH6 as it would have reinforced the iconic GH line's standing.

Yeah, I suppose. I've always liked the idea of good AF, but it has never been a make or break feature for me. And I think the videos that I'm missing, those filmmakers wouldn't care about AF either.

On 4/10/2023 at 9:36 AM, hyalinejim said:

I mainly use mine for work and holiday stuff, but I did shoot this with an Isco 36 and gave it a bit of filmic colour treatment, grain etc.

This look wicked. Thanks for sharing!

On 4/10/2023 at 8:23 AM, Kisaha said:

What FF are you shooting?

Hey Kisaha, I've been shooting full frame ML Raw on a Canon 5D Mark iii for the past 6 years, or so. I've also had a Sigma FP for about 6 months.

On 4/10/2023 at 8:23 AM, Kisaha said:

I have yet to see a GH6, which is strange, and that means that it hasn't sold a lot here in Greece. I know a lot of people that had both the GH5 and bought into BMP4K when first released, but now they have moved to BMP6K and abandon the m43 cameras altogether.

Yeah, this makes sense. Blackmagic offered a lot of features and a compelling image for the price.

After watching at @Andrew Reid's entertaining new YouTube video discussing m4/3, and more specifically, the GH6, I decided to look for some videos on YouTube and Vimeo. Strangely, I had a hard time finding many videos. I am mostly interested in the internal ProRes features of the camera, especially in 1080p and DCI-4K. 5.7K is not really something I would need right now.

To my surprise, I had a real hard time finding many samples. The lion's share of the videos were ProRes Raw samples, which look very nice, it's just not what I find intriguing about the camera.

I know times have changed and with that interests have as well, but when I saw a c-mount lens attached to Andrew's GH6, I was dying to see some footage of it. And I thought there would be a bunch of samples on YouTube of people experimenting with different optics on the most advanced m4/3 camera ever made...

But nope.

Obviously, a lot of videographers/filmmakers have moved on from m4/3 to the greener pastures of FF. Being a FF shooter, I understand the appeal, but I still find it sad.

So that brings me back to the title of my post... what's the deal with the GH6?

I heard there were some issues with pink streaking... has that been solved or has it been discovered why it happens?

With all that said, are there any good or creative videos floating around? Have the Nick Driftwood's or anamorphic shooters moved on from GH cameras?

I haven't owned a Panasonic camera in a while, but I really enjoyed the ones I have owned/used and I find it sad that the interest is waning.

@Andrew Reid can you tell me your experience shooting c-mounts/s16 lenses with it? Do you have any samples you would share?

Interesting post. I really like the GX85 shots. It's a shame that Panasonic hasn't upgraded the GX85 and G85 with 10bit.

But I think the biggest takeaway is that Canon sucks.

I'm still using my 5D Mark iii with ML Raw as my main camera for hobby narrative filmmaking. I recently bought a Sigma FP which I like okay enough. I also have a BMMCC all rigged out but I never use it. I think I'll sell it soon so I can hold onto the FP for a bit longer.

I'm still unsure about the FP. I like it, but it doesn't feel like an extension of my arm like my 5D does. Here's a frame from the FP with the Nikkor 35mm 1.4 ai-s lens that I took recently while working on a short film...

Otherwise, I have a few film cameras I enjoy walking around with when I'm out and about.

12 minutes ago, jpfilmz said:

I still…even with the bmpcc4k and R5 8k raw haven’t be able to replicate this look and motion from 5D3 Raw.

 

 

This was one of the films I watched right before I bought my 5D3! Great look!

23 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

I am not sure the average but the money can be very good if you have the right content. It is a matter of knowing what to make and how to make it. Most people either know one or the other.

I know a guy who has a film on Tubi and it cost him a few grand to make. I believe he has/had a distributor, so I don't know what kind of deal he has/had.

Regarding no budget features...

I've heard of projects made for less than $10,000 that will get a streaming deal but I cannot imagine there is a lot of money to be made? What does the average filmmaker/producer make for getting a steaming deal with Tubi, etc...?

Honestly, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.

I am just a hobbyist who has been using a 5D Mark III with 1080p ML Raw for the past 5-6 years as I attempt to make a few short films in my spare time. I'm hardly chasing cameras. I picked up a Sigma FP a few months ago, on a whim, and I like it. It has a nice image, I can't say for sure that it's a better image than the 5D though. I assumed the 14bit color from the 5D may be evening out the playing field, but what do I know... as I said... I'm not a professional like you guys are.

I've always been a writer first, so story is the most important thing to me, but I'm not delusional enough to think I am going to sell a screenplay or make a film that will have any impact on anything. I enjoy doing it, though and I suppose there are worse things I could spend my money on.

Next year I may buy a camcorder, making movies was a lot more fun back when camcorders were the only option for zero budget filmmakers.

I will end with this, though. Since we're all being so brutally honest... none of these cameras look that good. If you're shooting with a P4K and a Sigma zoom, or a 5D3 with ML Raw... they all look amateurish. So when you guys attack other people for their choices... remember your choices probably look questionable as well.

Then again, I've never seen any of your work, so maybe you guy's are artistic geniuses, but how could anyone know... only a few people share any of their work on this forum and when they do, the posts about the next best camera gets way more attention...

Good luck to you. 

2 hours ago, PPNS said:

Is it raw if youre binning?

Yes, I believe uncompressed raw is true raw no matter how it gets down to the final resolution. Look at the difference between 1080p raw from the 5D3 and 1080p raw from the Sigma FP... there's no comparison.

That said, I don't really care how it gets there, all I know is it is the purest image I have ever used... absolutely no noise reduction or sharpening added. You can change the WB from 2800 to 7500, in post, without any degradation whatsoever. It's as pure as it gets at this price point, especially considering it's full frame.

With that said... since you have shown zero interest in the 5D3, then why do you care either?

And finally... It's more raw than compressed BRaw.

1 hour ago, rosco said:

The obsession with IQ is getting out of hand here, 10bit, 12 bit, 14 bit seems to be negligible from the tests.  Story, set design, lighting, sound, music, framing, lenses, etc. are more important then bit depth imo. Possession of Hannah grace 8bit 422(a7sii), 8bit 422 knock knock (1dc) and others released in festivals, streaming platforms proves that.  Obviously people are biased and want the best possible and that’s great but 14 bit image isn’t everything to the overall average audience (same with 8k).  All things subjective, filmmakers can shoot with whatever they want.

1080p raw video with 12ish stops of DR is hardly an obsession in IQ.

Isn't the goal to get more DR, more bitrate, more color information? I, believe, @TomTheDP 's point in this post is that a group of part time coders were able to unlock, and write, a fairly stable firmware which opened a zeitgeist of cinema settings and 14bit raw video on a prosumer camera, so surely official firmware from one of the manufacturers could easily match their efforts from 11 years ago

12bit video can display up to 68 billion shades of color, 14bit can display up to 4 trillion. Surely, those numbers will be closer when the image goes through the pipeline to an eventual rec709 delivery, but to say it will have zero effect on the final image just isn't true.

If it doesn't matter to you... cool! It doesn't mean it isn't important to someone else.

That said, I agree that story is king. But as you suggested, any aspect that supports the story and the director's vision is a worthy goal.

To be honest, probably 90-95% of the people on this forum should not shoot with the 5D3 and ML Raw. It obviously causes a strange behavior and response.

There are so many other cameras out there that are probably more practical. For most people on the forum, I would suggest a camcorder.

The experience will be much more enjoyable and the results will look beautiful on YouTube. You can even add a LUT and you'll have instant cinema. Turn the camera sideways, press record and you'll be the envy of TikTok.

I may have shared these frames before somewhere on the forum, but I'm in the middle of finishing this short film all shot with the 5D III, using a nightly build in 1080p and with a Canon FD 50mm 1.2 L lens I had modified by Simmod so it will work with EF mount...

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

Dang.  Now I sorta feel like shooting a short with the old 5DII sitting on the shelf.  

Although it's true that I never really wanted to dabble in RAW for editing back in the day --as the workflow was off-putting. Might be worth learning something old and make it new again.

The workflow is so simple now. MLV App is straightforward for correction and "CST" and you can export to ProRes so you can edit in any program you want. Or you can use MLVFs and open up the files right in Resolve as if they were any other video file from any other camera.

Btw, I loved your B&W short film. I watched it on Christmas morning and it brought a smile to my face. I've been meaning to comment on it, but now I'm so far removed, I'd like to watch it again. The mouse was a whacko, cool idea that was done so well and made me think of the old Bass and Rankin Christmas cartoons.

3 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Are there sub $5k cameras in the market today that present similar images? 

Yeah, the 5D Mark III. Haha.

I haven't checked the used prices, but I assume you can find one in great condition for around 1000 USD... maybe more, maybe less. I bought mine new, 5-6 years ago for around $2000.

Now if you're referring to a new camera you can buy today that will look similar...

I don't know. The Sigma FP has a nice image downscaled to 1080p and its full frame, but not 14bit. The R5 and R5C both have nice images, but I've never used them.

I guess it depends on your needs.

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Looked epic!  That was eos-m with ML?? 

No that was 5D Mark III with 1080p ML Raw. 

1 hour ago, stephen said:

How do you shoot at 3.5K in 14 bit color ? 3520x1740 at 14bit gives me just few seconds, 3520x1740 at 12bit is from 15 sec to 1-2 minutes. Have to drop to 10bit in order to get closer to continuous. And this is with global draw off. With global draw on it is even worst.

Canon 5D Mark III raw video in crop mode for me is PRACTICALLY UNUSABLE:
    - there is no live view framing, you can't see on a monitor of even the tiny screen what you shoot
    - rolling shutter is more than 33 ms
    - camera is unreliable, had many freezes and you don't know if your recording is going to stop and especially when it is going to stop.
    - as your ISO increases your dynamic range and color palette decrease
    - software hack is always in development and movement, you don't know what bug your are going to hit and when

Tried many times to use it in crop mode and always ended in frustration. 1080p is the best, can have external monitor and proper framing, reliable, simple, 35mm lens has the same angle of view as on full frame. Use super scale in Resolve or Video Enhance AI to upscale to 4K and it is good enough. There you can shoot in 14 bits no problem.

Why we don't see 14bit video in hybrid cameras ? Simple answer is:
    - no demand - just look how many good video in RAW shot with Canon 5D Mark III hack are on youtube. For more than 12 years. Interest and usage are slim.
    - still some challenges to shoot and process such a massive amount of data. I know for a fact that in my (relatively small) country TV series are shot on Arri Alexa not in RAW but on Prores 4:2:2. Without compression very few people or companies are willing to deal with RAW video.  BRAW or ProRes RAW, Red RAW - yes no problem. Cinema DNG files even with lossless compression - few are willing to deal with data volume and workflow that comes with it.

I honestly doubt that anybody can see the difference between 14 and 12 bit color, especially on the monitors and screens we are using. I tested it on Canon 5D Mark III some time ago and couldn't. 14bit vs 12 bit, color science when related to RAW video and even in 10bit 4:2:2 - all this is purely subjective. All those claims of superiority falls apart when doing a blind test. Can give as example several published on internet tests.

I tried recently iPhone 14 for video after seeing several people on youtube recommending it. Shot on same location and lighting condition where some time ago shot a small personal project / clip with Canon 5d Mark III in RAW video crop mode. Yes you can't switch off sharpening, noise reduction and tone mapping for better dynamic range on iPhone but Oh boy how easy it was to get great picture quality, how good image stabilization was. Apply some grain and film emulation using dehancer and it is good enough. Efforts vs results comparable to Canon 5D Mark III are 100% on iPhone side.

I am thinking seriously to get one of those new Android smartphones with 1'' sensor like Vivo X90 Pro Plus and shoot raw video on a smartphone for personal projects. It can do 4K 60p RAW and I believe this is only in 10bit DNG. Apply some grain, film emulation  in dehancer and image look gorgeous to me. It is a lot easier than Canon 5D Mark III and it the end results will be equally impressive if not better. And this camera is with you all the time 🙂

Whole history of photography is a move toward ease of use and convenience once certain acceptable image quality has been achieved. Image quality by the way matters mostly to us, people who shoot not to the people and wide audience who will watch it. That's also a proven fact we should never forget.

I found too many issues with the experimental builds as well. I know you have to shoot 2:35 to shoot the 3.5K but, as you said, there's a crop and the Live View is wonky. The compressed 14bit 1080p raw files are good and doubles your storage but I found they too will freeze once in a while. I think there have been some advances since I tried it a couple years ago, but there seems to be more interest in the eos-m now.

The stable 1080p 14bit MLV Raw files from the Nightly Builds are the camera's strong suit and all I shoot with it.

It truly has a special image.

If you can't see the difference between iPhone footage and raw video... then God bless you and roll with that iPhone. You'll be much happier. 

As far as lack of good, quality videos from the 5D3 ML Raw... I don't know... maybe you're not looking hard enough because there are a ton out there.  But yes, it is a hack, and it became really popular 10 years ago when they figured it out but it was still very buggy at the time so a lot of people that tried it didn't want to deal with the storage or any other issue that arose so you see a lot of short test videos.

The 1080p is completely stable now and works like any other camera does except for playback... which I don't really use anyway.

This camera is for low budget filmmaking and personal projects. I don't think it would/could ever replace a dedicated cinema camera or mirrorless or even phone if you don't want to put the time into it.

With all that said, a filmmaker named Pete Ohs has made a couple films using it and his recent release, Jethica, was shot on it, it premiered at SXSW and it received a theatrical release...